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| Has the ballet world changed in terms of sexuality? | |
| Posted by: portenopete 07:12 am EDT 09/06/18 | |
| In reply to: Amar Ramasar update - Bway802er 11:12 pm EDT 09/05/18 | |
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| I admit right off that I know very little about the ballet world other than glancing stories in the news and a general impression from the way it is marketed. The general impression I have is that, as in most corners of life, it is now advertised in increasingly sexualized ways. Where once ballet connoted beauty and grace and an ephemeral quality, it is now much more about love and lust and carnality. (I sound like such a conservative! I'm not!) And it's also a general impression that, for years, ballet schools have striven to attract boys, especially boys who are as much athlete as artist. (Whether looks play into who gets accepted at the top schools I don't know, but there certainly seems to be no shortage of very attractive young guys dancing these days.) I know that's nothing new- Nijinsky was gorgeous- but my image of a mid-20th century male dancer is Robert Helpman, slathered in pancake and eyeshadow and looking almost as fey and lugubrious as he did when he played The Child Catcher in CHITTY CHITTY BANG BANG. I'm just trying to figure out why such a "frat house" atmosphere exists at the NYCB and wonder whether the standards have changed for whom they choose to educate and then employ? In an attempt to dispel the stereotype of the effeminate, gay male ballerino, are they consciously or unconsciously in search of hyper sexual and aggressively straight young guys? Or are these dancers feeling some kind of pressure- either from within the ballet world or without- to prove their heterosexuality? I read this story with sadness, having been really impressed with guys like Amar Ramasar, whom I loved in CAROUSEL, and whose combination of masculinity and grace worked so well for a lowlife sailor like Jigger Craigin. (Not that he is involved in this incident, but equally impressive- even more so- was Robert Fairchild in AN AMERICAN IN PARIS who might have a real career as a musical comedy actor once his dance career begins to slow.) |
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| Re:Robert Fairchild | |
| Posted by: jbronsto 07:12 pm EDT 09/06/18 | |
| In reply to: Has the ballet world changed in terms of sexuality? - portenopete 07:12 am EDT 09/06/18 | |
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| He has left NYCB to concentrate on his theatre career. Last season he starred in a dance theatre adaptation of Frankenstein in NYC and is beginning to choreograph and actively seek out musical theatre roles. | |
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| Let me ANSWER ALL OF YOUR BALLET WORLD QUESTIONS | |
| Posted by: RufusRed 08:14 pm EDT 09/08/18 | |
| In reply to: Re:Robert Fairchild - jbronsto 07:12 pm EDT 09/06/18 | |
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| First things first, read "Dancing On MY Grave" by Gelsey Kirkland. I danced with one of the 2 major NY ballet companies so I know a thing or 2 about this subject. I appreciate the questions in light of the recent very sad and disturbing news coming out of NYCB, but I also see an urgent need to help those of you that don't understand. "I'm just trying to figure out why such a "frat house" atmosphere exists at the NYCB and wonder whether the standards have changed for whom they choose to educate and then employ?" Answer: The only criteria for who they take into the school and company is solely based on talent. Yes, there's politics and perhaps someone who's friends or related to such and such may get a chance but as Liza said, "your parents can get you through the door but once you're there, you've got to have talent." "In an attempt to dispel the stereotype of the effeminate, gay male ballerino, are they consciously or unconsciously in search of hyper sexual and aggressively straight young guys?" A: NO! The snarky and Trump defending POS Michael Reidel joked on his horrible radio show, "I didn't know there were straight guys in ballet companies." How ignorant for someone who claims to be such a know it all a#$hole. Ballet companies are perhaps 50/50 gay to straight but lean way more hetero. Musical theater on the other hand is in my estimation 98% gay. "Or are these dancers feeling some kind of pressure- either from within the ballet world or without- to prove their heterosexuality?" A: NO! The ballet world is perfect for str8 guys because there's so many women, duh! Chase Finlay will have to answer for his despicable actions. My theory is he was sidelined with an injury, I believe it was over a year which is devastating to a young dancer to have that much time on their hands and I feel this was due to boredom and perhaps, aided by substance abuse, but I don't know any specifics. It doesn't excuse his behavior by any means. NYCB's management needs to come clean, apologize to the girl Alexandra Waterbury, apologize to the public for not addressing this in a more productive way, (There's a side DC hotel story that is very disturbing but I don't know the timeline for that? Does anyone?), the donor mentioned needs to be outed /taken to task, some in the management and on the board should also be replaced and lastly, there needs to be a director appointed ASAP! They're in desperate need of leadership. They unfortunately released a tone deaf and defensive statement which is just going to make the management there look worse. We'd be in denial if it wasn't acknowledged that this type of behavior wasn't enabled and those in power looked the other way. Mr. Finlay doesn't mean anything to me as an artist, I've seen him dance and frankly don't remember him. Amar Ramassar on the other hand is a wonderful artist in his prime and the best male NYCB has. I don't know the extent of his involvement in this scandal but I hope he comes back. We all should pray for NYCB, this is extremely destructive to a fragile art form and to the dancers that are trying to do good work. |
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| re: Let me ANSWER ALL OF YOUR BALLET WORLD QUESTIONS | |
| Posted by: Backontheice 08:15 am EDT 09/09/18 | |
| In reply to: Let me ANSWER ALL OF YOUR BALLET WORLD QUESTIONS - RufusRed 08:14 pm EDT 09/08/18 | |
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| Thank you Rufus for your excellent reply. From someone who has had a fifty year career in the ballet and figure skating worlds, the "there are straight men in the company?" comment has grown beyond tiresome. The complaint is posted for all to read. Get past the not a robot verification and use New York City Ballet to search for it. Ramasar and his buddies are in deep doo doo - as they should be. |
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| Link | Waterbury complaint |
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| re: Let me ANSWER ALL OF YOUR BALLET WORLD QUESTIONS | |
| Posted by: RufusRed 08:31 am EDT 09/09/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Let me ANSWER ALL OF YOUR BALLET WORLD QUESTIONS - Backontheice 08:15 am EDT 09/09/18 | |
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| You're welcome and thank you for the link but I couldn't get it to work. I typed in the letters repeatedly and nothing :( Where do I type in New York City Ballet? | |
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| re: Let me ANSWER ALL OF YOUR BALLET WORLD QUESTIONS | |
| Posted by: RufusRed 08:59 am EDT 09/09/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Let me ANSWER ALL OF YOUR BALLET WORLD QUESTIONS - RufusRed 08:31 am EDT 09/09/18 | |
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| I figured it out. I skimmed it, it's just nauseating and disturbing. I have to say, it doesn't seem very well written or is that how all complaints are formatted? It seems as if they're convicting before there was even a trial? Nonetheless, this is a horrible thing for NYCB and all I can say is, we all need to pray for them. | |
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| re: Has the ballet world changed in terms of sexuality? | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 12:59 pm EDT 09/06/18 | |
| In reply to: Has the ballet world changed in terms of sexuality? - portenopete 07:12 am EDT 09/06/18 | |
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| "(Whether looks play into who gets accepted at the top schools I don't know, but there certainly seems to be no shortage of very attractive young guys dancing these days.)" I am not a ballet aficionado but for whatever it's worth, it's never seemed to me that there was a shortage of attractive young guys dancing, at least not during the years I've had any awareness of ballet. |
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| re: Has the ballet world changed in terms of sexuality? | |
| Posted by: enoch10 07:45 pm EDT 09/06/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has the ballet world changed in terms of sexuality? - AlanScott 12:59 pm EDT 09/06/18 | |
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| this is bad. this is really, really bad - and not just because of how heinous the actions that precipitated it are. chase finlay was the future of city ballet, at least in terms of male dancers. it's been decades since a male dancer shined that bright. he was the youngest principal dancer i can remember with the potential to be as big as david hallberg - maybe bigger. amar ramasar and zachary catazaro are wonderful dancers but they're just ... new york city ballet excellent. amar ramasar is in his mid 30s and isn't far from aging out. zachary catazaro is younger and "only" a soloist but was definitely on track to be made principal. but, wonderful as they are - and they are - both combined doesn't equal the loss of finlay. i was in the audience the night chase finlay first danced appolo. not even halfway through it felt like there was electricity in the air. the audience would not stop until he got a solo bow. I can't ever remember clapping louder or longer. people, including me, were scrambling for their program trying to figure out who this guy was. i saw him dance it after that and every time he was, somehow, just as good. martins bumped APOLLO way back up in the repertoire which meant others had to sometimes dance it . i felt so bad for them. i know of at least one woman who complained when someone else danced it and demanded her subscription be credited and, unbelievably, it was. in spite of the fact that he wasn't a substitution. it wasn't just APOLLO. he shined in everything he did but he shined especially bright dancing robbins. it wasn't just the centennial that had them - finally - scheduling more robbins.. macaulay, who rarely deigned to even acknowledge the ballet had male dancers, gave him a rave after that first performance. it was all very exciting. what a loss. what a waste. what a jerk. |
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| Some corrections and comments | |
| Last Edit: Marlo*Manners 11:03 am EDT 09/07/18 | |
| Posted by: Marlo*Manners 11:01 am EDT 09/07/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has the ballet world changed in terms of sexuality? - enoch10 07:45 pm EDT 09/06/18 | |
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| Zachary Catazaro is 28 years old and was promoted to NYCB principal in October 2017. His participation in the disgusting chain of obscene photos and texts concerning female colleagues at NYCB and SAB is not as explicitly detailed or incriminating as what Finlay and Ramasar allegedly did. He is a very good (but not remarkable) dancer who is tall and hardworking but not a superstar. Chase Finlay looked like he was going to be a superstar but his promise very quickly dimmed. He had a very bad injury some years ago that took years to heal - he was on crutches with a foot cast for a long time. His return to ballet was not as impressive as before. Finlay's partnering came under criticism from Macauley in the NY Times. His brilliant early promise was not fulfilled and the recent Apollos weren't as impressive as his debut. He was in noticeably bad technical form when he came back from injury and only partially recovered his form. Amar Ramasar is 36 years old and definitely is in the last years of his career. What the bigger problem NYCB has is a shallow pool of outstanding male principals - some are just there like Jared Angle or Ask La Cour. The company is going to need to increasingly depend on up and coming corps and soloist men like Joseph Gordon, Roman Mejia and Harrison Coll to beef up the male roster. Macauley certainly noticed David Hallberg in his NYT reviews and was a vocal admirer of his dancing though Hallberg also is technically diminished by multiple injuries over the last five years. Marlo Manners (Lady Barrington) |
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| re: Has the ballet world changed in terms of sexuality? | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 09:43 am EDT 09/07/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has the ballet world changed in terms of sexuality? - enoch10 07:45 pm EDT 09/06/18 | |
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| And Kevin Spacey is an amazing actor. And Charlie Rose is a superlative interviewer. So what? We seem to be coming to a place where brilliant, exciting talent is no longer an excuse to treat people poorly and be an asshole. Great. I think that's the direction we need to be heading. I know so many brilliant, talented people in many fields who are also amazing people, but who can't seem to get their break or get ahead in a tough business. Let's clear out the brilliant and talented assholes and make room for the brilliant and talented good people. And maybe a business known for chewing up and spitting out people will become a bit more humane in the process. If Finley is found to be guilty of what he's been accused of and loses his career, well...that'll be a lesson to both him in his future endeavors and others coming up in the future. If the company has a few rebuilding years ahead of it due to losing a shining talent, so what? Won't be the first time. |
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| re: Has the ballet world changed in terms of sexuality? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 05:44 pm EDT 09/07/18 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 05:41 pm EDT 09/07/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has the ballet world changed in terms of sexuality? - JereNYC 09:43 am EDT 09/07/18 | |
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| Well, by your reckoning they should also jettision all the Jerome Robbins and Peter Martins (and maybe George Balanchine) ballets between the 2 leading NYC ballet companies. They'd hardly have any repertoire left to dance, as they were known to be really difficult to different degrees. I understand your point, and it's a good one, but some of this outrage and reckoning should also have been directed at the top choreographers and directors over the years as well. Btw, when I've hired singing teachers and acting coaches, etc.,I always ask other people if my prospect is easy to deal with, because frankly, while there are excellent artists who are jerks to deal with, life is too short, and there are many equally wonderful people to work with who are going to build your self-esteem and talent and not try to diminish you as a person. Of course, here we are talking about people in power who are jerks doing the hiring and running the company; I'm in favor of them being held accountable so that they will change their ways and/or be replaced by people who respect their artists and treat them well. |
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| re: Has the ballet world changed in terms of sexuality? | |
| Last Edit: singleticket 11:14 am EDT 09/07/18 | |
| Posted by: singleticket 11:13 am EDT 09/07/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has the ballet world changed in terms of sexuality? - JereNYC 09:43 am EDT 09/07/18 | |
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| We seem to be coming to a place where brilliant, exciting talent is no longer an excuse to treat people poorly and be an asshole. I don’t think so. Treatment on the job has gotten worse for most working people. What we’re talking about here are cases from glamorous or high paying professions. It’s a start if it means that these concerns trickle down to the world of working people without lawyers and a social media following. I don’t see that happening except for the work of a very small segment of politically active people. |
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| re: Has the ballet world changed in terms of sexuality? | |
| Last Edit: singleticket 09:22 am EDT 09/06/18 | |
| Posted by: singleticket 09:14 am EDT 09/06/18 | |
| In reply to: Has the ballet world changed in terms of sexuality? - portenopete 07:12 am EDT 09/06/18 | |
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| Although no frathouse, the House of Ballanchine was a heterosexual male one under the sway of a female muse. Like others have said here about Jerome Robbins, Ballanchine could not have had the career he had in our era. He was too much of an erotic-aesthetic tyrant. Peter Martins fit right in with the house culture. As for sexuality, it's at the root of the ballet form and its history, like the dancers at the Paris Opera who were lined up like cattle after their performances in specially built salons for the richest patrons. It's always there and always present. Check out the amazing Jean Beraud image in the link below. Ballet dancers are athletes as much as artists and there's always been a bit of a jock side to dancers, male and female. I don't see male dancers being forced to butch it up. But you may be right that the taste for the more virile dancer is in play now rather than the Nijinksy/Helpmann/Nureyev. The taste comes and goes and it's also about what kind of repertory is in fashion. |
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| Link | Sexual Exploitation Was the Norm for 19th Century Ballerinas |
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| N.Y. Post: 'Another twisted twinkle toes' | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 02:04 pm EDT 09/06/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Has the ballet world changed in terms of sexuality? - singleticket 09:14 am EDT 09/06/18 | |
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| Reports of these allegations are heinous enough. But does the Post really need to refer to a male dancer as ''another twisted twinkle toes''? | |
| Link | N.Y. Post: Suit says ex-dancer joked about abusing ballerinas 'like the sluts they are' |
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| re: N.Y. Post: 'Another twisted twinkle toes' | |
| Last Edit: singleticket 04:37 pm EDT 09/06/18 | |
| Posted by: singleticket 04:32 pm EDT 09/06/18 | |
| In reply to: N.Y. Post: 'Another twisted twinkle toes' - WaymanWong 02:04 pm EDT 09/06/18 | |
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| I do like the NY Post's old newsie patois, even when they're being reactionary. Those NYCB dancers are twisted if the allegations are true. It's awful to see any young woman subjected to this kind of digital sexual exploitation and bullying when the old analog style was nasty enough. The sharing of the photos with unspecified donors would not surprise Jean Béraud (see above) but it sure is cretinous and cruel behavior. I'm sure NYCB will survive but they might have assembled too young of an ensemble and given them too much of a party atmosphere to play in. |
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