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| PBS Harold Prince: The Director's Life last night | |
| Posted by: Ann 10:08 am EST 11/24/18 | |
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| Enjoyable mini-documentary. He's had such full career, all individual shows aren't given a huge amount of time. There is a lot of good footage (much new to me). | |
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| inthought it was interesting that landsbury | |
| Posted by: dramedy 03:19 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
| In reply to: PBS Harold Prince: The Director's Life last night - Ann 10:08 am EST 11/24/18 | |
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| Didn’t usually memorize the entire show before first rehearsal but did for Todd since prince insisted. | |
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| re: inthought it was interesting that landsbury | |
| Posted by: SRMHAYES 11:47 pm EST 11/25/18 | |
| In reply to: inthought it was interesting that landsbury - dramedy 03:19 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
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| Did you REALLY spell in "Landsbury"? "Landsbury"??? REALLY????? :-( | |
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| Why would she necessarily? | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 05:55 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
| In reply to: inthought it was interesting that landsbury - dramedy 03:19 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
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| It's not standard at all. There was a big discussion here a few years ago in which some people insisted it was standard and traditional to learn the lines before the first rehearsal and that it was unprofessional not to do that, but that's simply not true. Well, I suppose whether it's unprofessional is an opinion, but if that's true, some pretty famous actors have been unprofessional. I think you were involved in that discussion. For one example, three years ago I stayed for a talkback after a performance of The Humans at the Laura Pels. Reed Birney said that Joe Mantello had asked them to know their lines on the first day of rehearsal for that because he felt that for that play they needed to rehearse on the finished set. This meant there would be only two weeks of rehearsals, and it was going to be expensive (IIRC) for the Roundabout to have the set ready that early. Because of the shortened rehearsal period and the ways things were going to be done on the production, he wanted the actors to know their lines by the first rehearsal — something that he otherwise would never ask of them. So clearly neither Mantello nor Birney (nor, I would guess, most of the other actors) think it's standard and expected for actors to come in knowing their lines on the first day of rehearsal. The surprise to me is that Prince would ask for it given that songs are often not taught till rehearsals start. Also odd that he would have asked for it on Sweeney since Len Cariou has spoken of his tendency to hold onto his script till near the very end of rehearsals, till they have to virtually force it out of his hands, and that he resents actors who learn their lines too early because he feels they have to be giving line readings they've worked out by themselves rather than responding to the other actors at rehearsals in the moment. Like Cariou, Judi Dench (until she had memorization problems) did not even like to work on her lines outside of rehearsals. She even said that she'd often intentionally leave her script at the theatre overnight during rehearsals so that it would not possible for her to look at it at home. She did not like to learn her lines in any way other than naturally during the course of the rehearsals. She also has said that she preferred to not even read the script till the read-through on the first day of rehearsal. And this is not something especially new. A 1932 New York Times article on how actors memorize lines makes it clear that it was by no means considered standard for actors to know their lines on the first day of rehearsals back then. One actor discussed in the article was Leslie Howard, whose process was like that of Dench and Cariou (and I'm sure many other well-known actors). From the article: "Leslie Howard, for one, is reported to go through no process of deliberate memorization. He merely holds the script before him and reads it at rehearsals until finally he puts it aside and speaks without it. Nor does he even study lines at home." The article also mentioned Alice Brady, who had recently finished her Broadway run in Mourning Becomes Electra, as someone who never studied her lines outside rehearsals, simply holding on to her script in rehearsals until they came naturally to her, although it was also said that she was fast at learning them that way. This was also said in the article to be true of Edna Best, but not of Best's husband, Herbert Marshall, who confessed himself the bane of his colleagues. "He never, says Miss Best, knows his lines till the dress rehearsal." If you read William Redfield's terrific Letters From an Actor, about the production of Hamlet with Burton that Gielgud directed (and in which Redfield appeared), it's clear that Gielgud did not ask the actors to come in knowing their lines. And don't we think of Gielgud as having been a traditionalist? Obviously, there are actors who prefer to know their lines on the first day of rehearsals, and some of them may get as annoyed at those who don't as Len Cariou would get annoyed at those who did. And there are some directors who demand it. Noël Coward used to demand it, at least sometimes. But there are plenty of directors who don't demand it. I bet there are even some who discourage it. In any case, it's not considered standard. And if it ever was considered standard, that was long ago. |
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| re: inthought it was interesting that Lansbury | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 05:33 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 05:30 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
| In reply to: inthought it was interesting that landsbury - dramedy 03:19 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
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| That's usually the way things work in opera, where all the singers are usually required to have their parts learned at the start of rehearsals. In opera, there is generally a lot less rehearsal time, so you have to do a lot of work on your own and with your coaches, so it is usually by necessity that you have to know your material. Musical theater and plays generally allow you more time to rehearse with the script before you are gradually get off-book, and then there are usually times set out when you must be off book. | |
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| re: PBS Harold Prince: The Director's Life last night | |
| Posted by: Robt 11:22 am EST 11/24/18 | |
| In reply to: PBS Harold Prince: The Director's Life last night - Ann 10:08 am EST 11/24/18 | |
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| Having seen many of his shows since the mid-seventies (including "Doll's Life" and "Roza"), I mostly enjoyed it. I would have rather have seen less time spent on animation to allow for more clips, and I was disappointed--but understood--the omission of "On the Twentieth Century," a personal favorite. | |
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| re: PBS Harold Prince: The Director's Life last night | |
| Posted by: SRMHAYES 11:50 pm EST 11/25/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PBS Harold Prince: The Director's Life last night - Robt 11:22 am EST 11/24/18 | |
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| Agreed. | |
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| re: PBS Harold Prince: The Director's Life last night | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:53 am EST 11/24/18 | |
| In reply to: PBS Harold Prince: The Director's Life last night - Ann 10:08 am EST 11/24/18 | |
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| I loved it. I was surprised by some of the omissions, most notably FIDDLER ON THE ROOF, which was only covered in passing. Odd, considering it was one of the biggest hit of its era and is a frequently revived classic. Maybe it was given short shrift because the doc focused more on Prince's directing than producing, but still -- it's FIDDLER! And yes, some of that footage is new to me, and pretty amazing. |
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| Wasn’t it prince that formed the first number tradition | |
| Posted by: dramedy 03:18 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PBS Harold Prince: The Director's Life last night - Michael_Portantiere 10:53 am EST 11/24/18 | |
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| I think bock and harnick had another song and prince kept saying, what is the show about, and finally they wrote tradition to open the show. | |
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| re: Wasn’t it prince that formed the first number tradition | |
| Posted by: larry13 03:24 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
| In reply to: Wasn’t it prince that formed the first number tradition - dramedy 03:18 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
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| I've always read it was Robbins, not Prince, who did this. | |
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| Robbins, yes (nm) | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 06:03 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Wasn’t it prince that formed the first number tradition - larry13 03:24 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
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| nm | |
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| You are probably correct. Nmi | |
| Posted by: dramedy 03:53 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Wasn’t it prince that formed the first number tradition - larry13 03:24 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
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| Nm | |
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| re: PBS Harold Prince: The Director's Life last night | |
| Posted by: Duke1979 11:48 am EST 11/24/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PBS Harold Prince: The Director's Life last night - Michael_Portantiere 10:53 am EST 11/24/18 | |
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| Very insightful and well done. I thought it really gave you an understanding of his process—which all reverts back to moving figures around a black box and imagining the world that they inhabit. A true visionary of the possibilities of what theater can explore. | |
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| re: PBS Harold Prince: The Director's Life last night | |
| Posted by: bmc 11:57 am EST 11/24/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PBS Harold Prince: The Director's Life last night - Duke1979 11:48 am EST 11/24/18 | |
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| I loved-and the filmakers obviously loved- the lengthy clip of Ethel Shutta singing "Broadway Baby"- was this from the spring 72 benefit concert, issued on LP with scrabble letters? I noticed Shutta's rendition included the line/phrase "Cash!" | |
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| re: PBS Harold Prince: The Director's Life last night | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 06:02 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PBS Harold Prince: The Director's Life last night - bmc 11:57 am EST 11/24/18 | |
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| The "Broadway Baby" footage and the "Road You Didn't Take" footage both came from the dress rehearsal for the post-Broadway run of Follies at the now-demolished Shubert in Los Angeles, a theatre that Follies opened. Someone added sounds of an audience to the Shutta performance. |
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| re: PBS Harold Prince: The Director's Life last night | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 06:27 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PBS Harold Prince: The Director's Life last night - AlanScott 06:02 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
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| Some time during Follies run on Broadway, I saw Shutta perform "Broadway Baby" on a TV show -- I think it was The Tonight Show with Carson, although it may have been a different program. I have also been told that the footage is lost. | |
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| Dick Cavett perhaps? | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 07:18 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PBS Harold Prince: The Director's Life last night - BroadwayTonyJ 06:27 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
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| If she did do that, it's not listed on imdb, and it's not turning up in searches I'm doing of TV listings during that period, which doesn't mean she didn't. Could it have been on The Dick Cavett Show? Although imdb doesn't list that either, she was listed in papers as being a guest on the program of August 26, 1971. Fifi D'Orsay, on the other hand, did appear on The Tonight Show twice during the run (and also on The Mike Douglas Show several times), and Yvonne De Carlo appeared on The Tonight Show a bunch of times during the run. I wonder if she ever did "I'm Still Here" on The Tonight Show. Of course, De Carlo famously screwed up the "I'm Still Here" lyrics — it really wasn't all that bad — on the episode of The David Frost Show devoted to Follies, but she had no problem the following year on The Merv Griffin Show on an episode devoted to Follies during the Los Angeles run. I really believe that the problem was that she was just suddenly asked in the middle of conversation to do the song on Frost. On Griffin, where she talked about having screwed up on Frost, the song was the first thing she did, before talking and right after a commercial break. so she knew when it was going to happen and she could breathe before starting. |
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| re: Dick Cavett perhaps? | |
| Posted by: pierce 10:07 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
| In reply to: Dick Cavett perhaps? - AlanScott 07:18 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
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| I saw De Carlo perform "I'm Still Here" on the Tonight Show; this was before Johnny Carson moved operations out to Los Angeles. It was also the first time I ever heard the song (I hadn't bought the OCR yet). Because I wasn't familiar with it at the time, I can't say for sure that she sang the number without messing up the lyrics, but it came across like she got everything right. And it was mesmerizing. And of course, on the 4 occasions I saw Follies (once I'd become familiar with the score), she never screwed up "I'm Still Here." |
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| re: Dick Cavett perhaps? | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 06:20 pm EST 11/25/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Dick Cavett perhaps? - pierce 10:07 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
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| Yeah, it would be nice if that would turn up. Old Carson episodes do get shown on Antenna (though looking very odd at the wrong aspect ratio), but I don't think the ones shown there go back that far in time. | |
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| re: Dick Cavett perhaps? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:35 am EST 11/26/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Dick Cavett perhaps? - AlanScott 06:20 pm EST 11/25/18 | |
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| "Old Carson episodes do get shown on Antenna (though looking very odd at the wrong aspect ratio), but I don't think the ones shown there go back that far in time." Alan, have you tried adjusting that by pressing the "format" button (or equivalent) on your TV remote? |
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| re: Dick Cavett perhaps? | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 12:54 am EST 11/26/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Dick Cavett perhaps? - Michael_Portantiere 12:35 am EST 11/26/18 | |
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| Yes, I've tried that. I have it set so that it's supposed to do that automatically, and it does do it for almost every station but it doesn't do it for Antenna. Some months ago I tried seeing if there was anything extra that might work for Antenna. Actually, I haven't watched Antenna now in a while. So I just took a look, and as it turned out The Tonight Show is on. With everyone's heads cut off. :) Maybe I should call Spectrum tech support, but I think I've done that and they were no help. |
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| re: Dick Cavett perhaps? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 01:08 am EST 11/26/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Dick Cavett perhaps? - AlanScott 12:54 am EST 11/26/18 | |
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| "Actually, I haven't watched Antenna now in a while. So I just took a look, and as it turned out The Tonight Show is on. With everyone's heads cut off. :)" That is really unfortunate if their signal is going out in such a way that it overrides any attempt to return the 4:3 aspect ratio programs to that format. |
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| I'm pretty sure it was Cavett.. | |
| Posted by: BigM 10:02 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
| In reply to: Dick Cavett perhaps? - AlanScott 07:18 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
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| ...because I saw her sing it on his show. You can't find it on YouTube, but I vividly recall Cavett telling her she knocked him out of his seat with that song. Interestingly, she referred to it as "Hal Prince's Follies," though she identified Sondheim as "our brilliant composer." Wish I could see that appearance again. | |
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| re: I'm pretty sure it was Cavett.. | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 06:15 pm EST 11/25/18 | |
| In reply to: I'm pretty sure it was Cavett.. - BigM 10:02 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
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| Thanks, BigM. I seem to think you've mentioned that in the past here, and I'd forgotten. I think it's not too surprising that in 1971 she would have referred to it as "Hal Prince's Follies." I wonder if perhaps that episode is out there somewhere. It doesn't seem to be at the Paley Center, but it might turn up someday. I don't recall it being in the list of television performances of Sondheim that Ken Mandelbaum put together years ago for The Sondheim Review. |
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| re: I'm pretty sure it was Cavett.. | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 10:40 am EST 11/25/18 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 10:40 am EST 11/25/18 | |
| In reply to: I'm pretty sure it was Cavett.. - BigM 10:02 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
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| You're right. That is the program I saw. Shutta, of course, was incredible. I distinctly remember the host, Cavett, being completely bowled over by her performance. | |
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| re: Dick Cavett perhaps? | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 08:07 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
| In reply to: Dick Cavett perhaps? - AlanScott 07:18 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
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| Sure, it could have been Cavett. I think the person who told me the footage was lost also thought it was on Carson. | |
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| re: rewatching -- PBS Harold Prince: The Director's Life last night | |
| Posted by: Guillaume 01:47 pm EST 11/24/18 | |
| In reply to: re: PBS Harold Prince: The Director's Life last night - bmc 11:57 am EST 11/24/18 | |
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| For anyone (like me!) who missed this, it is available to watch in its entirety at the link. Yippee!!!!! Bonus is you can stop the vid to get a close look at things! | |
| Link | Watch! |
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