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| After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. | |
| Posted by: NJGUY 09:10 am EST 11/29/18 | |
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| Being of an age when I was fortunate to see the original Company on Broadway in 1971 and being around to see LoveMusik in 2007, I have seen all but one or two Hal Prince directed shows during the period (even saw Merrily on Broadway). His command of the stage by creating milieus is astounding and was reinforced in this documentary. I now see about 1-2 Broadway musicals a year and have deviated to off-Broadway and regional theater to get my fix of being theatrically provoked. Musicals of rom-coms and jukebox musicals are just not my thing. Glad and fortunate that I had the opportunity to witness his genius first hand. | |
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| re: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. | |
| Posted by: StageDoorJohnny 02:48 pm EST 11/30/18 | |
| In reply to: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. - NJGUY 09:10 am EST 11/29/18 | |
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| two of the major things I took away from the show were that Prince and his collaborators had a wide knowledge base of things beyond American theatre which informed, and sometimes sparked, their creativity and that he and his collaborators respected each others abilities. The Francis Bacon painting that spurred Aronson for the Company set, with Prince thinking 'good luck with that,' and giving Billington that picture of light streaming into Grand Central as an image for Sweeney and his giving Bennett his head in Follies really showed how his belief in their abilities didn't need micromanaging. Does/did Pretty Women or Jersey Boys require that kind of general background knowledge, or that their production teams were that much in sync? (not a put down of the teams) |
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| re: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. | |
| Posted by: Mac29 02:43 pm EST 11/29/18 | |
| In reply to: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. - NJGUY 09:10 am EST 11/29/18 | |
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| I agree with you 100% about today's musicals, maybe with a few exceptions. I did enjoy Phantom, Jersey Boys, and Bandstand. I was lucky enough to see Sweeney Todd on Broadway with Angela and Len when it first opened. "Brilliant" would sum it up nicely. | |
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| re: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. | |
| Posted by: Ballerina56 11:15 am EST 11/29/18 | |
| In reply to: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. - NJGUY 09:10 am EST 11/29/18 | |
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| Funny you mention that, as that’s all I could think of while sitting through PRETTY WOMAN last night. I’d just seen that terrific PBS documentary on Prince, and here I am sitting looking at a production that lacked any out-of-the-box creativity. Granted, it’s a movie to stage adaptation, with just enough of the original screenplay to bring the audience along on the journey without having to think too much. I guess that’s the million dollar, lazy idea. But essentially copying the movie scenes is problematic on that huge (bare-bones) stage. What were quick cutaways in the film become long beats of silence. The actors are staged to make long exits across the stage, losing any punch to the iconic (or should I say familiar) film dialogue. Perhaps a more seasoned and innovative director could have done more with it. Just bringing in the set would help make it more intimate when mostly necessary. The majority of the scenes after all are between Andy Karl and Samantha Barks, who now just get swallowed up on that cavernous empty stage. A stage that's also short on design elements. (A bed. A piano. A box seat. A white scrim.) There's an overall cheapness to the entire proceedings. It’s also interesting that director/choreographer Jerry Mitchell missed the mark on the one thing that he’s really known for- the dancing. It was the oddest, uninspired, and most elementary movement he’s ever put on a stage. There was a thread below talking about the choreographer turned director. His work here is a primary example, yet he fails in the department he’s been recognized and rewarded for. While not the visionary of a Hal Prince, I imagined director Jerry Zaks at the helm of this type of adaptation. His impeccable comedic timing and staging, as evidenced in the recent HELLO, DOLLY! revival, might have bettered this PRETTY WOMAN. |
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| re: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. | |
| Posted by: jtong43 12:18 pm EST 11/29/18 | |
| In reply to: re: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. - Ballerina56 11:15 am EST 11/29/18 | |
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| I agree 100%. After sitting thru Pretty Woman I vowed to never go to another of these flat musicals based on 78s and 80s movies. I suppose if word of moth makes me think a new one is different I might make an exception (Groundhog Day!!!). I am sorry I wasted the money and one of my nights in NYC on this. Should have known better. | |
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| re: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 11:40 am EST 11/29/18 | |
| In reply to: re: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. - Ballerina56 11:15 am EST 11/29/18 | |
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| That's a really interesting question...what would a really innovative director like Prince do with a show like PRETTY WOMAN? One of the points that Prince made in the documentary was that the first priority was to choose the right material, so it's probable that he (or any other really iconic director) would simply not take on a project like PRETTY WOMAN in the first place. But, if he did...Andrew Lloyd Webber, of all people, talked in the documentary about Prince's talent for telling writers that what they've written isn't good enough. Prince himself told a story about repeatedly telling Kander and Ebb, during the development of KISS OF THE SPIDERWOMAN, that a song wasn't good enough and to go back and try it again. I can only imagine that working on a show like PRETTY WOMAN would have involved A LOT of Prince going back to the writers and telling them that the work isn't good enough and to go back and try it again. Actually, that talent, to be able to tell even the most successful writers to go back and do it again without pissing people off to the extent that they hate you, may be Prince's greatest asset. It's a talent that I feel like a lot of new musicals nowadays could use. We hear stories time and again on this board about shows that go from readings to workshops to out-of-town productions to Broadway with few significant changes, leaving people to wonder why some terrible song or incredibly awkward moment survives from version to version. Maybe it's just that the writers were in love with every word and comma and the director just didn't feel comfortable enough to make them make changes. |
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| re: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. | |
| Posted by: BigM 03:23 pm EST 12/02/18 | |
| In reply to: re: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. - JereNYC 11:40 am EST 11/29/18 | |
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| Of course, to tell the writers that they need to come up with something better is easier if you're a famous director with a lot of clout. And one of Prince's early shows, She Loves Me, was not only derived from a movie, but a rom-com as well. Anything can be done well by an artist of skill and talent. | |
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| re: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:45 am EST 11/29/18 | |
| In reply to: re: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. - JereNYC 11:40 am EST 11/29/18 | |
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| "I can only imagine that working on a show like PRETTY WOMAN would have involved A LOT of Prince going back to the writers and telling them that the work isn't good enough and to go back and try it again." ....and again, and again, and again.... :-) |
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| re: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 11:53 am EST 11/29/18 | |
| In reply to: re: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. - Michael_Portantiere 11:45 am EST 11/29/18 | |
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| Well, Kander and Ebb had to go back to the drawing board multiple times, at Prince's direction, before they came up with "Where You Are" for KISS OF THE SPIDERWOMAN, so going back again, and again, and again worked in that instance. So a Harold Prince-directed PRETTY WOMAN might also have been much improved. Of course, the writers of PRETTY WOMAN are no Kander and Ebb, but then who is? |
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| re: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:40 am EST 11/29/18 | |
| In reply to: re: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. - Ballerina56 11:15 am EST 11/29/18 | |
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| "But essentially copying the movie scenes is problematic on that huge (bare-bones) stage. What were quick cutaways in the film become long beats of silence. The actors are staged to make long exits across the stage, losing any punch to the iconic (or should I say familiar) film dialogue." I was amazed by how poorly some moments in the screenplay were adapted to the stage, like that ridiculous moment towards the beginning, where the leading man gets OUT OF THE CAR HE'S DRIVING, in one of the worst parts of L.A., to ask for directions. And then the prostitute comments on how he doesn't know how to drive shift correctly -- even though he's not driving and, in fact, neither of them are in the car at that moment. I guess they didn't want to have them in the car for that moment because they wanted to save the expense of having a realistic-looking car on stage, but --- a completely inept "solution," I think. |
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| I have to disagree about mitchell | |
| Posted by: dramedy 11:23 am EST 11/29/18 | |
| In reply to: re: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. - Ballerina56 11:15 am EST 11/29/18 | |
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| I saw King Kong on Saturday night in October and the dancing is horrid and jarring to plot. I saw pretty woman the next day and realized what seemless dancing was designed for PW. He did a similar job with kinky boots. I don’t think dance should be obvious in a show like PW. And I really detest this constant movement like Hamilton and bandstand have on stage. | |
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| so what are the 1-2 you have seen in the last 3 years | |
| Posted by: dramedy 11:06 am EST 11/29/18 | |
| In reply to: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. - NJGUY 09:10 am EST 11/29/18 | |
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| Curious what did get you to buy a ticket and what you thought (yay or nay) of each. I’ve enjoyed some of the recent movie to musicals but others I found dreadful. I would say just over half of the musicals on broadway were worth the time and money to see once. Only a few a second time. Bronx tale tour is in sf and I liked it on broadway but don’t need to see it again. |
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| re: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:37 am EST 11/29/18 | |
| In reply to: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. - NJGUY 09:10 am EST 11/29/18 | |
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| "Glad and fortunate that I had the opportunity to witness his genius first hand." Me too. |
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| re: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. | |
| Posted by: Pokernight 11:07 am EST 11/29/18 | |
| In reply to: re: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. - Michael_Portantiere 10:37 am EST 11/29/18 | |
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| Me three. It's like the theatre in FOLLIES. | |
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| Even Roza, Grind and A Doll's Life had elements of genius | |
| Posted by: NJGUY 11:28 am EST 11/29/18 | |
| In reply to: re: After watching the Hal Prince PBS documentary, I now understand why I find most current musicals a bunch of crap. - Pokernight 11:07 am EST 11/29/18 | |
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| It is hard to apply the word GENIUS to most of the current crop of musicals (sans Hamilton) | |
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| re: Even Roza, Grind and A Doll's Life had elements of genius | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 03:34 pm EST 11/29/18 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 03:32 pm EST 11/29/18 | |
| In reply to: Even Roza, Grind and A Doll's Life had elements of genius - NJGUY 11:28 am EST 11/29/18 | |
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| The word "genius" has been used a bit too much rather than the word "gimmick" re: "Hamilton". Join the line with Tessie Tura, Mazeppa and Electra. | |
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