Threaded Order Chronological Order
| re: Harold Prince:I refer you all to the documentary 'Behind the Mask' | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 08:20 am EST 12/03/18 | |
| In reply to: Harold Prince: The Director's Life and the case for original productions - RufusRed 09:55 am EST 12/02/18 | |
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| Which few seem to have seen (?). This doc about PHANTOM features a remarkable sequence. Apparantly, during development, ALW and Cameron M felt that Mr Prince was just not getting it - he had 'lost it'. So they flew to NYC and fired Prince. THey hired Trevor Nunn. Then in December of 1985, the re-worked Les Miz opened in the West End. The reviews were even worse than when the RSC opened the show at the Barbican months before. "Oh no, Trevor has lost it!" So they fired Nunn, and had to ask Harold Prince to come back. I would love to compare Mr Prince's original PHANTOM deal, and the one he got when he was needed to come back. In the documentary, the filmmaker asks Prince about this firing. There is a pause that follows which seems endless, and one can see smoke coming out of Prince's ears almost literally. Obviously this was never supposed to have gotten out. He finally discusses it briefly, saying that after he was fired (in a restaurant in a NY hotel), he went back to the office and told Ruth Mitchell to pack up all of the PHANTOM materials - 'but don't put them in storage' As another insight - ALW and Cameron M flew to NYC together to fire Prince. On the morning of the meeting, ALW called out, unable to attend, leaving CamMack alone to do the deed. And another thought. In 1978 Harold Prince directed Puccini's THE GIRL OF THE GOLDEN WEST for Chicago Lyric Opera. The tenor's aria 'quello che tacete' contains the main theme of 'Music of The Night'. Did Prince never mention this? Legend has it that the Puccini estate quietly got a financial settlement from ALW in this regard. |
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| Link | Puccini vs ALW |
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| re: Harold Prince:I refer you all to the documentary 'Behind the Mask' | |
| Posted by: ryhog 09:28 am EST 12/03/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Harold Prince:I refer you all to the documentary 'Behind the Mask' - NewtonUK 08:20 am EST 12/03/18 | |
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| "Legend has it that the Puccini estate quietly got a financial settlement from ALW in this regard." More like a myth than a legend: the opera was in the public domain at the time. |
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| re: Harold Prince:I refer you all to the documentary 'Behind the Mask' | |
| Posted by: sirpupnyc 11:05 am EST 12/03/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Harold Prince:I refer you all to the documentary 'Behind the Mask' - ryhog 09:28 am EST 12/03/18 | |
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| That's the one they sued over and ALW settled, isn't it? | |
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| re: Harold Prince:I refer you all to the documentary 'Behind the Mask' | |
| Posted by: ryhog 12:57 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Harold Prince:I refer you all to the documentary 'Behind the Mask' - sirpupnyc 11:05 am EST 12/03/18 | |
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| I don't know. I have spent most of my adult life ignoring Phantom. What I DO know is that the opera is dated 1910, that the musical is dated 1986, and that in 1986 the duration of a copyright was 70 years. So either he settled for no reason, or their was new material added to the opera at a later date. I was just going on the math so if there is more here I plead ignorant. | |
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| re: Harold Prince:I refer you all to the documentary 'Behind the Mask' | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 05:49 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Harold Prince:I refer you all to the documentary 'Behind the Mask' - ryhog 12:57 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
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| Trying to get definitive answers is tough, or at least I'm finding it tough, but Italian copyright law is different from that of other countries, as showtunetrivia notes below. This may have changed since POTO but that doesn't matter. I'm pretty sure that at the time POTO came along, much of Puccini was still under copyright in Italy and perhaps in other countries. It may be that the Puccini estate and Ricordi (if Ricordi was also involved) would have lost if it it had come to trial, but it's said that ALW settled out of court, perhaps just wanting to avoid adverse publicity. I don't really know what happened, but the info I'm finding suggests that the Puccini estate and Ricordi might well have had at least enough of a case that ALW and his lawyers felt compelled to settle. |
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| re: Harold Prince:I refer you all to the documentary 'Behind the Mask' | |
| Posted by: fosse76 02:09 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Harold Prince:I refer you all to the documentary 'Behind the Mask' - ryhog 12:57 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
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| All work created before 1924 were in the public domain by in the 1970s. The 1976 Copyright Law overhauled copyright protections. Even if new material had been added, the "original" would be in the public domain. There is nothing in Title 17 (that I could find) that extends the length of protection due to changes in the protected work. | |
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| re: Harold Prince:I refer you all to the documentary 'Behind the Mask' | |
| Posted by: ryhog 03:02 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Harold Prince:I refer you all to the documentary 'Behind the Mask' - fosse76 02:09 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
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| yes. I was just laying out every possible scenario that came to mind. In order for the copyright date to have been different than 1910, the song would have to have been written later and added to the opera (or not). Regarding UK vs US mentioned in the next post, the former has shorter duration (70 years) because Disney was not able to buy a piece of legislation in parliament the way it was in the US Congress. In any case, a song published in 1910 would be in the public domain in both countries. | |
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| re: Harold Prince:I refer you all to the documentary 'Behind the Mask' | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 02:46 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Harold Prince:I refer you all to the documentary 'Behind the Mask' - fosse76 02:09 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
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| But British and American coptright laws are different, as Maury Yeston found out with his PHANTOM. Laura |
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