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| re: Listening while feminist: a defense of 'Baby, It's Cold Outside.' | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 02:59 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Listening while feminist: a defense of 'Baby, It's Cold Outside.' - WWriter 02:45 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
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| Well, no...it was never about that...but, listening to the song in the 21st Century, especially in light of the #metoo movement, still makes the brain go to that place. I mean, how could it not? It's all very well and good to say "but in the appropriate context, blah blah blah...", but how many radio stations and albums and whatnot give the listener the appropriate context? What you actually hear when you listen to the song is one person trying to coerce another into doing something he or she does not want to do. And, in the course of that, the person being coerced asks "What's in this drink?" Considering that this is the exact story of, for example, Bill Cosby and many different women over the course of decades, what is the modern ear expected to hear? I get it. It's a great song. It's witty and funny and great...but I also get it when I hear people say that it's time to put it away, at least for awhile. |
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| How about... | |
| Posted by: SamIAm 05:47 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Listening while feminist: a defense of 'Baby, It's Cold Outside.' - JereNYC 02:59 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
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| Let's go back to 'You Can't Say No to a Soldier'...talk about shaming women into sex...'hey, this guy is going to war and might die, so just do it'. Really? | |
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| re: Listening while feminist: a defense of 'Baby, It's Cold Outside.' | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 04:04 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Listening while feminist: a defense of 'Baby, It's Cold Outside.' - JereNYC 02:59 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
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| "What you actually hear when you listen to the song is one person trying to coerce another into doing something he or she does not want to do. " With all due respect: Did you read the analysis? Hugely significant is the fact that the person in question DOES want to stay, but that person -- originally a woman, as the song was originally conceived -- protests that she can't (read: shouldn't stay) because of what other people will assume and think of her if she stays. Yes, if the person in question REALLY did not want to stay for her own reasons and according to her own wishes, and the other person kept trying to coerce her into staying anyway, THAT would be a very problematic song. But that's not a valid interpretation of what's happening in the song, as explained in that excellent analysis. |
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| re: Listening while feminist: a defense of 'Baby, It's Cold Outside.' | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 04:25 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Listening while feminist: a defense of 'Baby, It's Cold Outside.' - Michael_Portantiere 04:04 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
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| Totally get what you're saying because I did read the analysis. But my point is...what about most of the people out there in the world listening to this song in 2018 who DIDN'T read the analysis? On a casual listen, I think it it's more likely that someone, without benefit of context set out by articles like this, would say that one person is trying to pressure another into doing something he/she doesn't want to do. I just don't think most people listen to their radios or Christmas albums and sit there and analyse what they are hearing. If they did, we'd hear a lot of less of MAME's "We Need A Little Christmas" at this time of year. So that's why, as terrific a song as this is, I understand when people find it icky in the face of #metoo and decide that it's time to retire it. |
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| re: Listening while feminist: a defense of 'Baby, It's Cold Outside.' | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 04:32 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Listening while feminist: a defense of 'Baby, It's Cold Outside.' - JereNYC 04:25 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
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| "But my point is...what about most of the people out there in the world listening to this song in 2018 who DIDN'T read the analysis? On a casual listen, I think it it's more likely that someone, without benefit of context set out by articles like this, would say that one person is trying to pressure another into doing something he/she doesn't want to do." On this point, I completely agree with you. But I think that's a huge problem with the world today -- people over-reacting emotionally to something without exercising their intelligence to think it through and figure out if there's really anything for them to be upset about. Like the "gypsy" controversy. But I'm certainly not going to get into that... |
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| re: Listening while feminist: a defense of 'Baby, It's Cold Outside.' | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 03:27 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Listening while feminist: a defense of 'Baby, It's Cold Outside.' - JereNYC 02:59 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
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| I get it. It's a great song. It's witty and funny and great...but I also get it when I hear people say that it's time to put it away, at least for awhile. I agree. I enjoy the song, but don't begrudge anyone who thinks it should be shelved. |
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| the gays will take it | |
| Posted by: dramedy 04:32 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Listening while feminist: a defense of 'Baby, It's Cold Outside.' - MockingbirdGirl 03:27 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
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| let's have a version with two gay guys singing it. so metoo movement doesn't kill a classic. I doubt that the red states will listen to either version. | |
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| re: the gays will take it | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 04:39 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
| In reply to: the gays will take it - dramedy 04:32 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
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| Not that this hasn't been done already (off the top of my head, Darren Criss and Chris Colfer sang it on GLEE), but if someone's reaction to the song is that it sounds, in the words of this article, "date-rapey," how does that change if the singers are both men? Or both women for that matter? | |
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| because guys drink a lot | |
| Posted by: dramedy 04:53 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
| In reply to: re: the gays will take it - JereNYC 04:39 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
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| and for me, what's in this drink is asking how strong it since gay guys are more cocktails than beer. Some cocktails are strong and others aren't unlike beer and wine which is low alcohol content. As for Cosby statement above by you--watch the second episode of FutureMan on Hulu for a very funny 1969 take on cosby. |
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| re: because guys drink a lot | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 11:34 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 11:34 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
| In reply to: because guys drink a lot - dramedy 04:53 pm EST 12/03/18 | |
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| since gay guys are more cocktails than beer. Did you really just stereotype gay men by what you think they drink? Yes, you did. Wow. |
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