Threaded Order Chronological Order
| Can off-Broadway become viable again | |
| Posted by: Kerick 10:07 am EST 12/25/18 | |
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| I would love to hear people's opinions on the viability of commercial off-Broadway for both new plays and new musicals? I ask this in light of thinking about what most of off-Broadway, long running shows, are now... event shows (Blue Man, Bubble Show), transfers from Broadway, (Jersey Boys, Ave. Q, etc). Should we expect that off-Broadway will almost entirely be home for non-profit theaters when it comes to new work? | |
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| re: Can off-Broadway become viable again | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 07:42 am EST 12/26/18 | |
| In reply to: Can off-Broadway become viable again - Kerick 10:07 am EST 12/25/18 | |
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| Very difficult. Many have posted the various shifts in our business over the past 10-20 years. Back when off-broadway was born, there was almost only commercial off Broadway. People worked for beans doing work that didnt fit the Broadway mold. If your show happened to become a success - you could do well. Not get rich, but do well. But there were great writers writing for off Broadway. Today they still do, but they are writing for NYTW, The Public, The Vineyard, MTC, Lincoln Center, HERE, et al. Every one wants their show, justifiably, to have a protected run a not for profit with members and subscribers - a guaranteed base audience. In commercial off Broadway today, as always, you start from scratch. Through advertising and marketing and social media you have to try to make space for your show, against not only Broadway, but against all the well financed not for profits. The Public (5 Theatres) Roundabout (2 OB theatres) Manhattan Theatre Club (2 OB theatres) The Vineyard HERE (2 theatres) St Annes Warehouse Park Avenue Armory Second Stage The Atlantic (2 theatres) ARS NOVA (2 theatres) Lincoln Center Theatre (2 theatres) Signature Theatre (3 theatres) 59E59 (3 theatres) Primary Stages York Theatre Classic Stage Co Axis The Flea (2 theatres) The Mint (no fixed home) Soho Rep TFANA The New Victory Irish Rep (2 theatres) 39 theatres, subsidized, tooling along. If you want to do a commercial show, you need real estate. Where can you do your show today? New World Stages has the largest off Broadway venues. Which have become homes for Broadway shows that refuse to die. These theatres are almost never available to a producer who just wants to do a Broadway show. And after 92 years, I dont think Altar Boys ever recouped. The Duke will not take commercial tenants. Only one of the Theatre Row theatres will take a commercial tenant. Signature will not take a commercial tenant. The Connelly dioesnt take commerical tenants.The Davenport will but do you really want your show in those dumps? Westside Arts takes commercial tenants in both spaces, but success is elusive there these days. Gym at Judson is very difficult and expensive to use, and you usually cant perform on Mondays or Wednesdays, and they black out some weekends too, because there is no sound separation between the Gym and the Churhc above. Sheen Center isnt really a commercial venue. ARTNY doesnt take commercial runs. So .... where are you going to produce your commercial off Broadway show - which you are going to spend $1 million plus on for a play, $1,5-2.5 million for a musical. Westside arts (2 270 seat venues) Theatre Row (1 199 seat venue) New World (maybe the 199 might be available once in a while) The Davenport (150 and 90 seats) And we are almost out of off-Broadway venues that will contemplate a commercial run. Why, you may ask? Well - most off Broadway venues today have a model where you can only have 6-10 weeks, max. You have to pay your entire rent for the 6-10 weeks, plus a security deposit, before you can move in. At a 199 seat theatre you are paying about $12,000 a week. Do the math. You have to give them $96,000 + a deposit before you move in for an 8 week run. For the landlord its a great deal. You just stack up shows in 6-10 week increments and bank the money. Doesnt matter how well the shows do. What if you take a commercial show? The License Agreement calls for a 2 or 4 week notice of leaving. You make a deposit of 2-4 weeks rent + security deposit. You open. No one wants to see your show. Suddenly you give your 4 weeks notice. The landlord has to find another show, but no sane producer can open a show without 12-16 weeks advance notice - to start sales etc, But that would mean your theatre would be vacant for 8-12 weeks. That;s bad. So you continue to rent to any show that will take your theatre as close as possible to when the previous show closes. Creating a recipe for failure. Which plays out off Broadway all year. So, yeah, commercial off Broadway is kind of dead, more or less. The model is broken, and there are so few possible theatres. Broadway used to have this problem, when shows would close on opening night - and then you have to wait for a new tenant. This was because theater owners used to not charge rent, but rather split the box office with the producer. So if your show wasnt selling, the split wasnt enough to keep the theatre open, so you were tossed out by the theatre. But in the 70's the Shuberts came up with magic pill - make the producer pay rent, pay your property taxes, pay your insurance, pay for all of your employees, pay their payroll taxes, pay to print tickets, pay to use the box office systems which the theatre owns. Suddenly no risk. Which is why flop shows can run on and on and on. They are still paying all the theatre's bllls and staff, so are welcome to stay until a new show is booked. It used to be cheaper to have a flop in your theatre close. Now its better to encourage a producer to throw good money after bad and keep a show running til you have a new one ready to load in. Broadway. Off Broadway. Don't produce. Own theatres. |
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| re: Can off-Broadway become viable again | |
| Posted by: ryhog 11:37 am EST 12/26/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Can off-Broadway become viable again - NewtonUK 07:42 am EST 12/26/18 | |
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| some of what you say is true, some false, a lot incomplete. And then there is the seemingly chronic need to express bias/hatred that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. When one chooses to write at length in a faux-exhaustive style, any merit in the underlying point is quickly dissipated. Your list of venues is nowhere near complete as to either non-profits or spaces available to commercial producers. But stripped of all that, it is still true that the off-B model is, except for a few exceptions, not promising at the moment. Could that change? Yes. This is New York and the one thing anyone paying attention knows is that everything, including especially everything involving real estate, evolves. | |
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| re: Can off-Broadway become viable again | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 01:27 pm EST 12/26/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Can off-Broadway become viable again - ryhog 11:37 am EST 12/26/18 | |
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| Well, I work in the business every day, have for some 50 years. I know the off Broadway commercial inventory pretty well (considering only theatres 199 and above - mostly -as nothing else works - and there are precious few 99s any more anyway). I actually re-read all of my posts carefully, and there are no lies in my post above, Mr/Ms Ryhog. If one wanted to a produce a show like the original Godspell at Cherry Lane - non union - and then move up - one can cut the risk drastically. But producing a show commercially off Broadway is VERy hard due to lack of venues and the costs associated. And the Broadway model was indeed broken in the 70's, never to be fixed as far as I can tell. Not bias, just true. The new model is very different, and for the few available theaters one can take a shot if one get an owner to accept your prohect - no easy task these days except for a very few of our most successful producers. ANd Disney. | |
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| re: Can off-Broadway become viable again | |
| Posted by: ryhog 01:58 pm EST 12/26/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Can off-Broadway become viable again - NewtonUK 01:27 pm EST 12/26/18 | |
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| No one mentioned lies but if you want to suggest you know what you are talking about, it behooves you to not be wrong or incomplete, which you were. That does not alter the current landscape materially, but wrong is wrong. And chips on shoulders do not persuade. P.S. Nothing is easy; some people just make things look easy, whilst others manage to make things harder than they are. That's not the theatre; it's everything. | |
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| "Everything, including especially everything involving real estate, evolves" is a rule | |
| Posted by: BrianJ 05:52 am EST 12/28/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Can off-Broadway become viable again - ryhog 01:58 pm EST 12/26/18 | |
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| Those of us paying attention enough to know that there are no rules are well aware that nothing, including especially nothing involving real estate, may ever evolve again. But to those misguided people under the delusion that there are rules - best of luck to you! |
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| re: "Everything, including especially everything involving real estate, evolves" is a rule | |
| Posted by: ryhog 09:44 am EST 12/28/18 | |
| In reply to: "Everything, including especially everything involving real estate, evolves" is a rule - BrianJ 05:52 am EST 12/28/18 | |
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| I think you misapprehend "rules" as I use the term. Rules refer to things that can affect our actions, not discernible facts that are out of our range of control. This is the essence of science: we can do things to "defy" gravity, but we cannot alter it. We have the laws of thermodynamics, not the rules of thermodynamics. :-) Thanks for playing. |
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| Altar boyz did recoup | |
| Posted by: dramedy 08:10 am EST 12/26/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Can off-Broadway become viable again - NewtonUK 07:42 am EST 12/26/18 | |
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| It took 2 or even 3 years but it did. I find your take on share boxoffice can lease change in 70s fascinating. I’ve never heard that before and it makes a lot of sense as for one eeason why shows closed opening night back then along with more shows waiting for theaters back then. |
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| Link | http://www.playbill.com/article/altar-boyz-80s-prom-and-my-first-time-recoup-investments-com-147450 |
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| re: Altar boyz did recoup | |
| Posted by: ryhog 11:43 am EST 12/26/18 | |
| In reply to: Altar boyz did recoup - dramedy 08:10 am EST 12/26/18 | |
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| Beware the accuracy of what you find fascinating. I don't have time to explain atm but we can revisit sometime if you want. | |
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| re: Altar boyz did recoup | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 10:13 am EST 12/26/18 | |
| In reply to: Altar boyz did recoup - dramedy 08:10 am EST 12/26/18 | |
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| Thanks for the Altar Boyz link - I remember this now - and it was another warning sign. Here was a hit show, selling well, small cast musical - and they struggled for years to earn back their cap. I.known about the change in the Broadway model for many years- but you can read about it in Michael Riedel's book, as well, which outlines the many ways, large and small, that the SHuberts unilaterally restructured Broadway economics, and renegotiated Union contracts - all in ways that have led to a musical that cost $1.3 million in 1960 (in 2018 dollars), costing $13 million today. And coincidentally put zillions into the Shubert (tax free) coffers. | |
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| I saw the movie bathtubs over broadway a few days ago | |
| Posted by: dramedy 10:54 am EST 12/26/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Altar boyz did recoup - NewtonUK 10:13 am EST 12/26/18 | |
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| They stated that these industrial shows cost $3M when the original my fair lady cost around $3-400k on broadway. I assume part of that is basically the company is paying for everything up front while a broadway production pays royalties over time instead of a lump sum. Good movie overall. |
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| re: Can off-Broadway become viable again | |
| Posted by: Kerick 04:30 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: Can off-Broadway become viable again - Kerick 10:07 am EST 12/25/18 | |
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| Both Desperate Measures and Dear Evan Hansen , that were referred to in earlier posts, were productions at non profit theaters that were enhanced by outside commercial producers. The question is, is there any hope for old fashioned commercial producing off Broadway, without going through a non-profit. I ask, because it often takes up to 2 years and $200,000-500,000 enhancement to get on the schedule of a non profit IF they decide to do a new work. | |
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| Tough question. My two cents: | |
| Posted by: tmdonahue (tmdonahue@yahoo.com) 01:38 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: Can off-Broadway become viable again - Kerick 10:07 am EST 12/25/18 | |
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| I think in addition to financial changes, there have been cultural changes that make it hard for off-Broadway to be what it once was. Remember the Vietnam War protests, the summer of love, the sometimes peaceful and sometimes not struggle to improve racial equality? Off-Broadway theater and the regional theater movement were in part powered by these societal responses to the complacency of the 1950s, that goaded many people to multifaceted actions in response. Including making art without regard to making a living. Regional theater has changed too. It now develops material for Broadway OR exploits recent Broadway and off-Broadway successes. As much as "American Theatre" magazine grumbles about it, the politically engaged regional theater has dwindled, too. The regional theaters that survived the 2008 recession are now fiscally stronger but not more artistically or politically interesting. (All of this is stated, of course, with the caveat: "for the most part." There are exceptions. My most recent trip to NYC included "Straight White Men" on Broadway, a really interesting, woke play. On the other hand, I saw half of "Desperate Measures," a truly miserable off-Broadway musical.) The growing financial divide doesn't help as it makes cities like NYC, Chicago, and San Francisco as places without the housing choices that let people live as struggling artists. |
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| Link | Link to my latest book "Playing for Prizes" |
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| re: Tough question. My two cents: | |
| Last Edit: ryhog 01:55 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| Posted by: ryhog 01:54 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: Tough question. My two cents: - tmdonahue 01:38 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| Missing from the answer above is an awareness of what I'd consider the two driving factors: real estate and the flourishing off and off-off non-profit landscape. Commercial rents kicked most commercial theatrical venues to the curb. Broadway at least alters the risk profile. Off and off-off certainly cannot be labelled uninteresting either artistically or politically. And somehow these "struggling artists" seem very available to the non-profits so that strikes me as awfully illogical as a reason. We've done what we have always done: evolved. Back to the original question: maybe, but not in the short run, and any answer extending beyond that is ill-informed. (Also, note that Desperate Measures is not a new play opening as a commercial venture off-B. It's been around. plenty.) | |
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| re: Tough question. My two cents: | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 09:43 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Tough question. My two cents: - ryhog 01:54 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| "Missing from the answer above is an awareness of what I'd consider the two driving factors: real estate and the flourishing off and off-off non-profit landscape." I mentioned skyrocketing real estate values as a major reason for what has happened to Off-Broadway theater when the subject came up in our latest "This Week on Broadway" podcast, and in fact, I'd say it's probably the biggest single reason. |
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| re: Tough question. My two cents: | |
| Posted by: summertheater 03:36 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Tough question. My two cents: - ryhog 01:54 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| There have been huge hits like Dear Evan Hansen off-Broadway where people were going crazy to see it, and this type of show appeals to a wide demographic. Sold-out hit. On the other hand, I saw an off-Broadway drag queen show this week in SoHo that was perhaps 20% full (I'm being generous here), and where the performers were espousing their radical political views and demonizing a particular ethnicity with racist slander. Wonder why their ticket sales are in the toilet. |
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| re: Tough question. My two cents: | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 11:12 am EST 12/26/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Tough question. My two cents: - summertheater 03:36 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| What was the show? | |
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| re: Tough question. My two cents: | |
| Posted by: ryhog 12:48 am EST 12/26/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Tough question. My two cents: - summertheater 03:36 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| There are many possible answers, yours being the most unsatisfying. Considering that virtually no one has any idea what you are talking about, and since there is no discernible press on "your" topic, I would say the likelihood that you've come up with a reasoned answer-as far-fetched as that might be-borders on the non-existent. | |
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| re: Tough question. My two cents: | |
| Posted by: jconnors 06:23 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Tough question. My two cents: - summertheater 03:36 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| The narrow-mindedness of your single-mindedness is exhausting. | |
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| Huh? | |
| Posted by: HadriansMall 05:17 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Tough question. My two cents: - summertheater 03:36 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| You were shocked that DRAG QUEENS espoused “radical political views?” I know, everyone. Don’t feed the trolls. In other news, how was the commute to the theatre? :-/ |
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| re: Huh? | |
| Posted by: summertheater 05:48 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: Huh? - HadriansMall 05:17 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| In their show, they told a touching poignant story about the 1980s and the early years of the AIDS epidemic, and how many LGBT individuals died. I was really moved and I felt the intense hurt and pain. But then they morphed into 2018 and a racist rant against a particular ethnic group. I would think drag queens would be the last ones to make a racist statement, and would best understand how we shouldn't denigrate each other for our differences. The commute, however, was quite convenient; right upstairs from the C and E trains. Thank you for asking! | |
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| I’m going to regret this, but... | |
| Posted by: HadriansMall 06:10 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Huh? - summertheater 05:48 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| What particular ethnic group were the drag queens berating? | |
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| re: I’m going to regret this, but... | |
| Posted by: tmdonahue (tmdonahue@yahoo.com) 05:50 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
| In reply to: I’m going to regret this, but... - HadriansMall 06:10 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| This is a response to your subject, not your message: I always regret trying to enter into a conversation on this site. THE REASONS FOR OFF-BWAY'S DECLINE ARE MANY AND VARIED. Almost everyone who has posted a new idea for the decline has some validity. Let's share our thoughts. Civilly. What is this? Congress? | |
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| You can't guess? | |
| Last Edit: MockingbirdGirl 08:51 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 08:48 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: I’m going to regret this, but... - HadriansMall 06:10 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| I've got $20 on white men. Haven't they suffered enough?!?!?!?! | |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Last Edit: keikekaze 10:35 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| Posted by: keikekaze 10:33 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: You can't guess? - MockingbirdGirl 08:48 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| But are "white men" an "ethnic group"? The previous poster used that exact phrase twice, and I'd have said "white men" embraced about 50 different ethnic groups. You may be right, but if the answer is something more specific than "white men," I too would like to know what it is, just out of curiosity. |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: summertheater 11:49 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - keikekaze 10:33 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| They started their lengthy racist rant by saying "There are too many white people in the audience tonight". I thought of walking out due to this racism, but I instead put a huge "f*ck you" smile on my face and looked them straight in the eye, which I know annoyed them much more, as they were uncomfortable looking at me afterwards when they were signing people up for their mailing list after the show. | |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 10:57 pm EST 12/26/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - summertheater 11:49 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| What else was in this "rant"? | |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Last Edit: whereismikeyfl 11:12 am EST 12/26/18 | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 11:02 am EST 12/26/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - summertheater 11:49 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| That kind of racism will never be "entertaining" or "funny" until white people get paid the same, do not see their votes suppressed, hold power in government, and are fairly represented in media. Until that day, we should not tolerated this kind of oppression of the downtrodden. |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:54 am EST 12/27/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - whereismikeyfl 11:02 am EST 12/26/18 | |
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| "That kind of racism will never be 'entertaining' or 'funny' until white people get paid the same, do not see their votes suppressed, hold power in government, and are fairly represented in media. Until that day, we should not tolerated this kind of oppression of the downtrodden." Ah, yes. Of course. Sounds like you and Singapore/Fling would love this show. Enjoy! |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 10:06 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - Michael_Portantiere 11:54 am EST 12/27/18 | |
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| My comment was on the line "There are too many white people in the audience tonight." This line or a variation of it has become a tiresome cliche. It is not a racist attach, but rather a lame attempt at humor. My own lame attempt at humor was to meant to show how ridiculous the many claims we see here that something is a politically incorrect on white people or religion or men. And if this unnamed performance was an attack on white people--so what? White people are doing just fine. We do not need anyone to protect us against the drag queens of off-Broadway. |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 03:29 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - whereismikeyfl 10:06 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
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| "And if this unnamed performance was an attack on white people--so what? White people are doing just fine. We do not need anyone to protect us against the drag queens of off-Broadway." That's where I completely and passionately disagree with you. I think there is great danger when any group attacks another group based on race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, or whatever, even if the group being attacked is perceived as privileged. Look what happened to the Jews in Germany -- of course that's not the same situation as what we're discussing here, but not entirely dissimilar, either. |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Last Edit: Singapore/Fling 09:18 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 09:16 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - Michael_Portantiere 03:29 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
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| Straight white Christian men have been the dominant global power for the past 500 years. Jews in Europe have been continually persecuted for the past 500 years. How are these two situations not dissimilar? | |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 03:37 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - Michael_Portantiere 11:54 am EST 12/27/18 | |
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| I wouldn't love a show simply because it made fun of white folks, I'm not as basic as that. But I'm not surprised you don't want to even consider structural imbalances in our society. It's such a shame that you didn't take the chance to learn something from "Slave Play", rather than stopping at being unsettled. Meanwhile, we don't know that this performance contained any meaningful dialogue around race, much less was "racist". Summertheater, who has been known to misrepresent these things in the past, has only told us that the performer commented that there were too many white people in the audience. Without more context, such as what (if anything) the performer was advocating for, we don't know what lay behind that comment. |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 04:25 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - Singapore/Fling 03:37 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
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| "I wouldn't love a show simply because it made fun of white folks, I'm not as basic as that. But I'm not surprised you don't want to even consider structural imbalances in our society. It's such a shame that you didn't take the chance to learn something from "Slave Play", rather than stopping at being unsettled." I didn't say I didn't learn anything from SLAVE PLAY, I just didn't bother to respond to your question a few weeks ago asking me what I'd learned from it. I'm not 100 percent sure that I "learned" anything from the show that I didn't know beforehand, but I thought it was a very intelligent, thoughtful, provocative, and powerful play -- in addition to being very unsettling in certain sections -- and I'm very glad I saw it. P.S. I am 100 percent open to considering structural imbalance in our society, and you're insulting me if you suggest otherwise. |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 05:29 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - Michael_Portantiere 04:25 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
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| I'm not insulting you, I'm commenting on your actions and remarks on this site. If you feel insulted, then that might be motivation to practice your consideration on this site. You might start by acknowledging that all of the major theater critics in New York are white, which is a massive structural imbalance. That imbalance might be the motivator for the comment that Summertheater quoted. I doubt we'll get a full report, and perhaps the comment was anti-white bias. But perhaps the performer was expressing a wish for a more diverse audience that would better understand the cultural reference points of the performance. Perhaps the performer was asking for a more vocal response from the crowd. I don't think we'll ever know, because our source is so fragile about their whiteness that they can't offer a complete report. |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 05:45 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - Singapore/Fling 05:29 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
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| "I'm not insulting you, I'm commenting on your actions and remarks on this site. If you feel insulted, then that might be motivation to practice your consideration on this site. " Thanks for the advice, I will give it as much thought as it deserves. And OF COURSE you're tremendously insulting me if you think anything I've written here indicates that I "don't want to even consider structural imbalances in our society.” It don't believe you have the objectivity to even realize when you are insulting someone in a case like this. |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 09:11 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - Michael_Portantiere 05:45 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
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| When I brought up the fact that all the critics in New York were white, you went apoplectic, put the word white in quotes as if to somehow deny the truth of it, and said that I was racist for even bringing it up. Then you denied that you denied it and switched the subject. That tends to be your M.O., as you continue to practice here. So yeah, I'm just keeping you honest, not that I expect you to take the effort to acknowledge that. |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:11 am EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - Singapore/Fling 09:11 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
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| "I'm just keeping you honest, not that I expect you to take the effort to acknowledge that." How condescending and insulting can you be? Tremendously so, apparently. Anyway, I DO NOT need you of all people to "keep me honest." I am sorry that I went back on my previous decision never again to engage with you directly here, but now I promise this will be the last time. |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 04:42 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - Michael_Portantiere 12:11 am EST 12/31/18 | |
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| How condescending and insulting can you be? Honestly, it’s not nearly as condescending or insulting as the suggestion that a bit of ribbing of a paying audience is remotely similar to what Jews experienced in pre-war Germany. When drag queens start breaking the windows of white-owned businesses and beating up Caucasians on their way to Sunday brunch, we can revisit. |
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| One last, very important point... | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:37 am EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - Michael_Portantiere 12:11 am EST 12/31/18 | |
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| ....because this really is the last time I'll engage with you directly: I'm fairly certain that if you were required to use your actual name as a handle on this site, you would not feel comfortable expressing many of the opinions you have expressed (and no doubt will continue to express) in regard to hot-button issues such as the racial makeup of the New York theater critic pool. What I objected to was not your factual statement that all of the major New York theater critics were white, but your conclusion that this means there are certain kinds of theater those critics are unable to appreciate and reward BECAUSE they are white. I realize that the majority of people on this site don't use their real names, but the majority of people on this site don't post incendiary opinions like that. If you were to use your real name as your TB handle, that would at least show that you have the courage of your convictions. But I can't imagine you walking up to Ben Brantley, Jesse Green, Terry Teachout, Elizabeth Vincentelli at a party, or for that matter you sending them emails with your real name attached, saying: "I don't think you, as a white person, can appreciate all kinds of theater because I think you have a limited cultural perspective." |
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| re: One last, very important point... | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 05:27 pm EST 01/02/19 | |
| In reply to: One last, very important point... - Michael_Portantiere 10:37 am EST 12/31/18 | |
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| I don't use my name on this site because it would hurt my standing in the industry to be associated with this site. My comments about the cultural limitations of an all-white critical team would only increase my esteem within the part of the industry that I care about. I would share this thought with the critics who are open to hearing it, and I have been on a panel with a white critic who did acknowledge her cultural limitations. I wouldn't share it with the other critics, but only because I am not authorized by the theater I work for to say such things. But you may have noticed that Jesse Green avoids hip hop theater like the plague, and that's just the most obvious aspect of how our cultural backgrounds affect our ability to process cultural experiences. But really, you're going to spend paragraphs on personal critiques, and not give even one sentence to how exactly the white majority culture that has spent hundreds of years running this country is similar to a people that have been ostracized and murdered en masse for the past two thousand years? |
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| You showed them! | |
| Last Edit: MockingbirdGirl 12:36 am EST 12/26/18 | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 12:35 am EST 12/26/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - summertheater 11:49 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| Because if there's one thing actors are super-uncomfortable with, it's looking at people. | |
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