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| re: Tough question. My two cents: | |
| Last Edit: ryhog 01:55 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| Posted by: ryhog 01:54 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: Tough question. My two cents: - tmdonahue 01:38 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| Missing from the answer above is an awareness of what I'd consider the two driving factors: real estate and the flourishing off and off-off non-profit landscape. Commercial rents kicked most commercial theatrical venues to the curb. Broadway at least alters the risk profile. Off and off-off certainly cannot be labelled uninteresting either artistically or politically. And somehow these "struggling artists" seem very available to the non-profits so that strikes me as awfully illogical as a reason. We've done what we have always done: evolved. Back to the original question: maybe, but not in the short run, and any answer extending beyond that is ill-informed. (Also, note that Desperate Measures is not a new play opening as a commercial venture off-B. It's been around. plenty.) | |
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| re: Tough question. My two cents: | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 09:43 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Tough question. My two cents: - ryhog 01:54 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| "Missing from the answer above is an awareness of what I'd consider the two driving factors: real estate and the flourishing off and off-off non-profit landscape." I mentioned skyrocketing real estate values as a major reason for what has happened to Off-Broadway theater when the subject came up in our latest "This Week on Broadway" podcast, and in fact, I'd say it's probably the biggest single reason. |
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| re: Tough question. My two cents: | |
| Posted by: summertheater 03:36 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Tough question. My two cents: - ryhog 01:54 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| There have been huge hits like Dear Evan Hansen off-Broadway where people were going crazy to see it, and this type of show appeals to a wide demographic. Sold-out hit. On the other hand, I saw an off-Broadway drag queen show this week in SoHo that was perhaps 20% full (I'm being generous here), and where the performers were espousing their radical political views and demonizing a particular ethnicity with racist slander. Wonder why their ticket sales are in the toilet. |
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| re: Tough question. My two cents: | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 11:12 am EST 12/26/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Tough question. My two cents: - summertheater 03:36 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| What was the show? | |
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| re: Tough question. My two cents: | |
| Posted by: ryhog 12:48 am EST 12/26/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Tough question. My two cents: - summertheater 03:36 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| There are many possible answers, yours being the most unsatisfying. Considering that virtually no one has any idea what you are talking about, and since there is no discernible press on "your" topic, I would say the likelihood that you've come up with a reasoned answer-as far-fetched as that might be-borders on the non-existent. | |
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| re: Tough question. My two cents: | |
| Posted by: jconnors 06:23 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Tough question. My two cents: - summertheater 03:36 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| The narrow-mindedness of your single-mindedness is exhausting. | |
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| Huh? | |
| Posted by: HadriansMall 05:17 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Tough question. My two cents: - summertheater 03:36 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| You were shocked that DRAG QUEENS espoused “radical political views?” I know, everyone. Don’t feed the trolls. In other news, how was the commute to the theatre? :-/ |
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| re: Huh? | |
| Posted by: summertheater 05:48 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: Huh? - HadriansMall 05:17 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| In their show, they told a touching poignant story about the 1980s and the early years of the AIDS epidemic, and how many LGBT individuals died. I was really moved and I felt the intense hurt and pain. But then they morphed into 2018 and a racist rant against a particular ethnic group. I would think drag queens would be the last ones to make a racist statement, and would best understand how we shouldn't denigrate each other for our differences. The commute, however, was quite convenient; right upstairs from the C and E trains. Thank you for asking! | |
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| I’m going to regret this, but... | |
| Posted by: HadriansMall 06:10 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: re: Huh? - summertheater 05:48 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| What particular ethnic group were the drag queens berating? | |
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| re: I’m going to regret this, but... | |
| Posted by: tmdonahue (tmdonahue@yahoo.com) 05:50 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
| In reply to: I’m going to regret this, but... - HadriansMall 06:10 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| This is a response to your subject, not your message: I always regret trying to enter into a conversation on this site. THE REASONS FOR OFF-BWAY'S DECLINE ARE MANY AND VARIED. Almost everyone who has posted a new idea for the decline has some validity. Let's share our thoughts. Civilly. What is this? Congress? | |
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| You can't guess? | |
| Last Edit: MockingbirdGirl 08:51 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 08:48 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: I’m going to regret this, but... - HadriansMall 06:10 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| I've got $20 on white men. Haven't they suffered enough?!?!?!?! | |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Last Edit: keikekaze 10:35 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| Posted by: keikekaze 10:33 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: You can't guess? - MockingbirdGirl 08:48 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| But are "white men" an "ethnic group"? The previous poster used that exact phrase twice, and I'd have said "white men" embraced about 50 different ethnic groups. You may be right, but if the answer is something more specific than "white men," I too would like to know what it is, just out of curiosity. |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: summertheater 11:49 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - keikekaze 10:33 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| They started their lengthy racist rant by saying "There are too many white people in the audience tonight". I thought of walking out due to this racism, but I instead put a huge "f*ck you" smile on my face and looked them straight in the eye, which I know annoyed them much more, as they were uncomfortable looking at me afterwards when they were signing people up for their mailing list after the show. | |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 10:57 pm EST 12/26/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - summertheater 11:49 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| What else was in this "rant"? | |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Last Edit: whereismikeyfl 11:12 am EST 12/26/18 | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 11:02 am EST 12/26/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - summertheater 11:49 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| That kind of racism will never be "entertaining" or "funny" until white people get paid the same, do not see their votes suppressed, hold power in government, and are fairly represented in media. Until that day, we should not tolerated this kind of oppression of the downtrodden. |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:54 am EST 12/27/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - whereismikeyfl 11:02 am EST 12/26/18 | |
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| "That kind of racism will never be 'entertaining' or 'funny' until white people get paid the same, do not see their votes suppressed, hold power in government, and are fairly represented in media. Until that day, we should not tolerated this kind of oppression of the downtrodden." Ah, yes. Of course. Sounds like you and Singapore/Fling would love this show. Enjoy! |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 10:06 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - Michael_Portantiere 11:54 am EST 12/27/18 | |
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| My comment was on the line "There are too many white people in the audience tonight." This line or a variation of it has become a tiresome cliche. It is not a racist attach, but rather a lame attempt at humor. My own lame attempt at humor was to meant to show how ridiculous the many claims we see here that something is a politically incorrect on white people or religion or men. And if this unnamed performance was an attack on white people--so what? White people are doing just fine. We do not need anyone to protect us against the drag queens of off-Broadway. |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 03:29 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - whereismikeyfl 10:06 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
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| "And if this unnamed performance was an attack on white people--so what? White people are doing just fine. We do not need anyone to protect us against the drag queens of off-Broadway." That's where I completely and passionately disagree with you. I think there is great danger when any group attacks another group based on race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, or whatever, even if the group being attacked is perceived as privileged. Look what happened to the Jews in Germany -- of course that's not the same situation as what we're discussing here, but not entirely dissimilar, either. |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Last Edit: Singapore/Fling 09:18 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 09:16 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - Michael_Portantiere 03:29 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
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| Straight white Christian men have been the dominant global power for the past 500 years. Jews in Europe have been continually persecuted for the past 500 years. How are these two situations not dissimilar? | |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 03:37 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - Michael_Portantiere 11:54 am EST 12/27/18 | |
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| I wouldn't love a show simply because it made fun of white folks, I'm not as basic as that. But I'm not surprised you don't want to even consider structural imbalances in our society. It's such a shame that you didn't take the chance to learn something from "Slave Play", rather than stopping at being unsettled. Meanwhile, we don't know that this performance contained any meaningful dialogue around race, much less was "racist". Summertheater, who has been known to misrepresent these things in the past, has only told us that the performer commented that there were too many white people in the audience. Without more context, such as what (if anything) the performer was advocating for, we don't know what lay behind that comment. |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 04:25 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - Singapore/Fling 03:37 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
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| "I wouldn't love a show simply because it made fun of white folks, I'm not as basic as that. But I'm not surprised you don't want to even consider structural imbalances in our society. It's such a shame that you didn't take the chance to learn something from "Slave Play", rather than stopping at being unsettled." I didn't say I didn't learn anything from SLAVE PLAY, I just didn't bother to respond to your question a few weeks ago asking me what I'd learned from it. I'm not 100 percent sure that I "learned" anything from the show that I didn't know beforehand, but I thought it was a very intelligent, thoughtful, provocative, and powerful play -- in addition to being very unsettling in certain sections -- and I'm very glad I saw it. P.S. I am 100 percent open to considering structural imbalance in our society, and you're insulting me if you suggest otherwise. |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 05:29 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - Michael_Portantiere 04:25 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
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| I'm not insulting you, I'm commenting on your actions and remarks on this site. If you feel insulted, then that might be motivation to practice your consideration on this site. You might start by acknowledging that all of the major theater critics in New York are white, which is a massive structural imbalance. That imbalance might be the motivator for the comment that Summertheater quoted. I doubt we'll get a full report, and perhaps the comment was anti-white bias. But perhaps the performer was expressing a wish for a more diverse audience that would better understand the cultural reference points of the performance. Perhaps the performer was asking for a more vocal response from the crowd. I don't think we'll ever know, because our source is so fragile about their whiteness that they can't offer a complete report. |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 05:45 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - Singapore/Fling 05:29 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
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| "I'm not insulting you, I'm commenting on your actions and remarks on this site. If you feel insulted, then that might be motivation to practice your consideration on this site. " Thanks for the advice, I will give it as much thought as it deserves. And OF COURSE you're tremendously insulting me if you think anything I've written here indicates that I "don't want to even consider structural imbalances in our society.” It don't believe you have the objectivity to even realize when you are insulting someone in a case like this. |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 09:11 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - Michael_Portantiere 05:45 pm EST 12/27/18 | |
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| When I brought up the fact that all the critics in New York were white, you went apoplectic, put the word white in quotes as if to somehow deny the truth of it, and said that I was racist for even bringing it up. Then you denied that you denied it and switched the subject. That tends to be your M.O., as you continue to practice here. So yeah, I'm just keeping you honest, not that I expect you to take the effort to acknowledge that. |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:11 am EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - Singapore/Fling 09:11 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
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| "I'm just keeping you honest, not that I expect you to take the effort to acknowledge that." How condescending and insulting can you be? Tremendously so, apparently. Anyway, I DO NOT need you of all people to "keep me honest." I am sorry that I went back on my previous decision never again to engage with you directly here, but now I promise this will be the last time. |
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| re: You can't guess? | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 04:42 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - Michael_Portantiere 12:11 am EST 12/31/18 | |
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| How condescending and insulting can you be? Honestly, it’s not nearly as condescending or insulting as the suggestion that a bit of ribbing of a paying audience is remotely similar to what Jews experienced in pre-war Germany. When drag queens start breaking the windows of white-owned businesses and beating up Caucasians on their way to Sunday brunch, we can revisit. |
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| One last, very important point... | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:37 am EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - Michael_Portantiere 12:11 am EST 12/31/18 | |
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| ....because this really is the last time I'll engage with you directly: I'm fairly certain that if you were required to use your actual name as a handle on this site, you would not feel comfortable expressing many of the opinions you have expressed (and no doubt will continue to express) in regard to hot-button issues such as the racial makeup of the New York theater critic pool. What I objected to was not your factual statement that all of the major New York theater critics were white, but your conclusion that this means there are certain kinds of theater those critics are unable to appreciate and reward BECAUSE they are white. I realize that the majority of people on this site don't use their real names, but the majority of people on this site don't post incendiary opinions like that. If you were to use your real name as your TB handle, that would at least show that you have the courage of your convictions. But I can't imagine you walking up to Ben Brantley, Jesse Green, Terry Teachout, Elizabeth Vincentelli at a party, or for that matter you sending them emails with your real name attached, saying: "I don't think you, as a white person, can appreciate all kinds of theater because I think you have a limited cultural perspective." |
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| re: One last, very important point... | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 05:27 pm EST 01/02/19 | |
| In reply to: One last, very important point... - Michael_Portantiere 10:37 am EST 12/31/18 | |
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| I don't use my name on this site because it would hurt my standing in the industry to be associated with this site. My comments about the cultural limitations of an all-white critical team would only increase my esteem within the part of the industry that I care about. I would share this thought with the critics who are open to hearing it, and I have been on a panel with a white critic who did acknowledge her cultural limitations. I wouldn't share it with the other critics, but only because I am not authorized by the theater I work for to say such things. But you may have noticed that Jesse Green avoids hip hop theater like the plague, and that's just the most obvious aspect of how our cultural backgrounds affect our ability to process cultural experiences. But really, you're going to spend paragraphs on personal critiques, and not give even one sentence to how exactly the white majority culture that has spent hundreds of years running this country is similar to a people that have been ostracized and murdered en masse for the past two thousand years? |
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| You showed them! | |
| Last Edit: MockingbirdGirl 12:36 am EST 12/26/18 | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 12:35 am EST 12/26/18 | |
| In reply to: re: You can't guess? - summertheater 11:49 pm EST 12/25/18 | |
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| Because if there's one thing actors are super-uncomfortable with, it's looking at people. | |
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