Threaded Order Chronological Order
| A semi-Apology about the score for REDHEAD... | |
| Posted by: bmc 06:10 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
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| A while back I mentioned(A apropos about what I forget) that I wasn't crazy about the REDHEAD score; I lost my CD(And turntable is broken) so I ordered a CD and have given it several listens, and the other posters were right-It was a much better score than I remembered. But FDS is a childhood favorite, so if I had been a Tony voter I would have voted for that-I also prefer JUNO and GOLDILOCKS scores, (GYPSY was in the next year Tony bracket),,,,,,,Never having read the book, I felt the character of Essie(the Verdon part) was hard to get a handle on. Obviously a show that was so 'designed ' on Miss Verdon, that it would need an singer/dancer/actress of equal star power to do a revival successfully but imaging an LP with Chita Rivera, or Elizabeth Seal in the part I still feel the character isn't on the page. Also altho it's set in Edward England, you wouldn't guess that from the famous album cover. Did other posters see the show, or was it published in book/lyrics random housed edition.?.... So back to my semi aplology, and wasn't Richard Kiley a wonderful singer ? I remember with great fondness my three trips to see HER FIRST ROMAN; after one matinee, I Brought along the MAN OF LA MANCHA LP which he kindly autographed for me. Now it's off to the grocery store. | |
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| What's FDS? Besides, you know . . . | |
| Posted by: allineedisthegirl 09:59 am EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: A semi-Apology about the score for REDHEAD... - bmc 06:10 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
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| thanks db |
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| so I had to look up what you meant | |
| Last Edit: dramedy 11:11 am EST 12/31/18 | |
| Posted by: dramedy 11:10 am EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: What's FDS? Besides, you know . . . - allineedisthegirl 09:59 am EST 12/31/18 | |
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| I actually did get flowerDS which was surprising. But curious what your slang was. I especially like the second one although I think you meant the third set. | |
| Link | https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3fterm=FDS&=true |
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| re: so I had to look up what you meant | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 01:33 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: so I had to look up what you meant - dramedy 11:10 am EST 12/31/18 | |
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| That's pretty funny! I have to admit that being a total theatre geek, Flower Drum Song is the only think that pops into my head when I encounter the FDS acronym. However, years ago I did have my share of FDS #1 but eventually stopped because MR was never the result. Regarding FDS #2, I was never plagued with it but my jogging partner in college occasionally was because of his LHB. Anyway getting back to topic, I hope that Encores does finally present both Redhead and the original '58 Flower Drum Song. |
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| re: so I had to look up what you meant | |
| Posted by: lowwriter 02:34 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: so I had to look up what you meant - BroadwayTonyJ 01:33 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
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| But if Encores does Flower Drum Song they would have to cast Asian American actors in lead parts which would be a huge challenge for them. | |
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| There's a crazy, rich talent pool of Asian-American actors | |
| Last Edit: WaymanWong 12:33 am EST 01/01/19 | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 12:22 am EST 01/01/19 | |
| In reply to: re: so I had to look up what you meant - lowwriter 02:34 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
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| I'm not sure why it would be such a huge challenge. The recent productions of, say, ''Soft Power.'' ''Here Lies Love,'' ''Allegiance,'' etc. (not to mention the N.Y. revivals of ''Miss Saigon,'' ''The King and I'') have showcased lots of Asian-American talent. Plus, if Encores did ''Flower Drum Song,'' it would only run for a weekend. That might even entice some Asian-American names who might welcome such a short-term commitment. | |
| Link | Red Bucket Follies 2018: Celebration of the 60th anniversary of 'Flower Drum Song' |
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| re: There's a crazy, rich talent pool of Asian-American actors | |
| Posted by: lowwriter 10:27 am EST 01/01/19 | |
| In reply to: There's a crazy, rich talent pool of Asian-American actors - WaymanWong 12:22 am EST 01/01/19 | |
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| I was criticizing the lack of Asian talent in leads at Encores, not the availability of Asian talent willing to work for them. | |
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| re: There's a crazy, rich talent pool of Asian-American actors | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 01:46 am EST 01/01/19 | |
| In reply to: There's a crazy, rich talent pool of Asian-American actors - WaymanWong 12:22 am EST 01/01/19 | |
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| I think lowwriter was just complaining about Encores! rarely casting Asian actors despite the fact that there is no shortage of talent and skill. | |
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| re: There's a crazy, rich talent pool of Asian-American actors | |
| Posted by: lowwriter 10:22 am EST 01/01/19 | |
| In reply to: re: There's a crazy, rich talent pool of Asian-American actors - AlanScott 01:46 am EST 01/01/19 | |
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| Yes, Alan Scott got what I was saying. After seeing the National Asian Artists Project of Into the Woods, I dare Encores to cast one Asian actor in a lead in Encores this year. | |
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| re: There's a crazy, rich talent pool of Asian-American actors | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 09:04 am EST 01/01/19 | |
| In reply to: re: There's a crazy, rich talent pool of Asian-American actors - AlanScott 01:46 am EST 01/01/19 | |
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| While the score of the '58 version of Flower Drum Song is generally considered to be very good, the book has long been regarded as patronizing and/or condescending to Asian Americans. It's rarely done in regional theatre. In fact, I've never seen a production. I may be totally wrong, but I took lowriter's post to mean that many Asian actors may not want to be involved in a revival of the original version. In addition, given Encores poor record at casting Asian actors in the past, they might have difficulty finding enough performers for a show that may require a cast of around 45. |
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| re: There's a crazy, rich talent pool of Asian-American actors | |
| Last Edit: AlanScott 11:54 pm EST 01/01/19 | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 11:54 pm EST 01/01/19 | |
| In reply to: re: There's a crazy, rich talent pool of Asian-American actors - BroadwayTonyJ 09:04 am EST 01/01/19 | |
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| Can you or someone else explain to me why the book of the original FDS is considered by some to be patronizing or condescending? Virtually no one I know feels that way about it, and I certainly don't feel that way. I'm not saying it's 100-percent authentic in every way, but I see nothing patronizing or condescending in there. It's a light musical comedy, written in a light musical-comedy style, with charming characters, all of whom speak in grammatically correct English almost all the time. The only characters who occasionally don't are Mei Li and perhaps Dr. Li. They are recent immigrants whose first language is not English and so it's only realistic that they occasionally make errors, but even they mostly speak in perfect English. I read somewhere someone objecting to the whole mail-order bride aspect of the plot (which is not in the novel), saying this was some kind of myth, but it wasn’t a myth. If the characters are stereotypes to some degree — and they are — they are standard musical-comedy stereotypes, not specifically Asian ones. I know people look at Mei Li and think of her as a stereotypically dutiful Asian young woman, but the whole Mei Li-Linda Low contrasting pair of leading female characters is just very musical comedy. How many musical comedies feature the demure girl and the brassy girl? Countless. And although there are differences in the musical from the versions of those two characters in the source novel, the essence of both is pretty much the same. I’ve said this all here before, but not recently. One more thing that, forgive me, I've said here before: I think some of what some people find objectionable is stuff that comes directly from the novel, and does anyone think that C. Y. Lee didn’t understand what he was writing about or was being condescending or patronizing to his characters? |
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| re: There's a crazy, rich talent pool of Asian-American actors | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 11:03 am EST 01/02/19 | |
| In reply to: re: There's a crazy, rich talent pool of Asian-American actors - AlanScott 11:54 pm EST 01/01/19 | |
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| I don't know if the original resolved Mei Li's plot like the film, but there is some business with her saying her "back is wet", off of a term she overheard on tv, the original term which is probably offensive to some; that could be rewritten. Otherwise, I rather agree with AlanScott -- when I've seen the film the characters just seem like different types of Americans and the two emigrants, though refreshingly not with the usual Caucasian faces one saw in American films. It always seemed rather charming and very tuneful, and a wonderful showcase for singing actors. | |
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| re: There's a crazy, rich talent pool of Asian-American actors | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 06:18 pm EST 01/02/19 | |
| In reply to: re: There's a crazy, rich talent pool of Asian-American actors - PlayWiz 11:03 am EST 01/02/19 | |
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| The show's final scene is identical, or nearly, to the film's, as is the scene where Mei Li sees that scene from a movie on television. The woman in the film says that she's a wetback, which leads Mei Li to say, "My back is wet" in the final scene. I suppose someone might find this patronizing but . . . isn't it timely? OK, she's cutesy saying "My back is wet," but if someone is offended by that . . . I just don't know what to say. Oh, I do. It's a musical comedy. | |
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| re: There's a crazy, rich talent pool of Asian-American actors | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 06:46 pm EST 01/02/19 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 06:42 pm EST 01/02/19 | |
| In reply to: re: There's a crazy, rich talent pool of Asian-American actors - AlanScott 06:18 pm EST 01/02/19 | |
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| There are people who seem to get off on being offended nowadays. Or who make a meme or hashtag about it. A good deal of what they are calling out is warranted, but some people seem to actually seek out and get a perverse sort of high from being offended and capitalizing on the attention they get for calling attention to themselves for being offended, it seems. | |
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| re: There's a crazy, rich talent pool of Asian-American actors | |
| Posted by: lowwriter 10:25 am EST 01/01/19 | |
| In reply to: re: There's a crazy, rich talent pool of Asian-American actors - BroadwayTonyJ 09:04 am EST 01/01/19 | |
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| No, I was not implying Asian actors wouldn’t want to be involved with an Encores Flower Drum Song. The original book can be reworked but not as severely as the work of David Henry Hwang. | |
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| I think Jonathan price is available nmi | |
| Posted by: dramedy 06:29 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: so I had to look up what you meant - lowwriter 02:34 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
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| Nm | |
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| re: I think Jonathan price is available nmi | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 06:36 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: I think Jonathan price is available nmi - dramedy 06:29 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
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| Troublemaker. | |
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| since that was almost 30 years ago | |
| Posted by: dramedy 06:46 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: I think Jonathan price is available nmi - BroadwayTonyJ 06:36 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
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| There might be a substantial group that didn’t get the reference. As roxy hart says “I’m older than I ever intended to be”. | |
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| re: so I had to look up what you meant | |
| Posted by: allineedisthegirl 12:47 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: so I had to look up what you meant - dramedy 11:10 am EST 12/31/18 | |
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| The only FDS I could think of was popular (if that's the word) in the 70s; a product called FDS, Feminine Deodorant Spray. db |
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| re: so I had to look up what you meant | |
| Posted by: Ann 12:19 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: so I had to look up what you meant - dramedy 11:10 am EST 12/31/18 | |
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| That acronym has certainly changed over the years, even the life of this board, it seems. | |
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| re: so I had to look up what you meant | |
| Last Edit: bmc 04:13 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
| Posted by: bmc 04:06 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: so I had to look up what you meant - Ann 12:19 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
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| Boy, sorry for the confusion; I only used FDS for Flower Drum song because I thought it had been used here, like MFL for My Fair Lady; I'll be more careful/explicit in the future( I also learned a lot by looking at the other meanings from urban slang. It's a whole new world out there' | |
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| re: so I had to look up what you meant | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 07:01 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: so I had to look up what you meant - bmc 04:06 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
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| You made it clear in your post that the acronym FDS referred to a show that was nominated for Best Musical Tony in the same season as Redhead so I don't think there was really any confusion. I assume that all the responses to your post were intended to be humorous. At least I hope they were because the comments I made were in the spirit of going along with the joke. | |
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| Even though there are no rules | |
| Posted by: dramedy 06:28 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: so I had to look up what you meant - bmc 04:06 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
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| I think a good one is to only use acronym for current running shows. I usually spell one word to clue people in like flowerDS | |
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| re: Even though there are no rules | |
| Posted by: lowwriter 10:33 am EST 01/01/19 | |
| In reply to: Even though there are no rules - dramedy 06:28 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
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| I don’t think if I used DRS or TLS or ABT it would be that simple to figure out right away what musical I was referring to. | |
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| re: Even though there are no rules | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 11:07 am EST 01/01/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Even though there are no rules - lowwriter 10:33 am EST 01/01/19 | |
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| Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, The Last Ship, A Bronx Tale. It took me about 30 minutes to figure these acronyms out. IMO to make communication on the board easier, acronyms should not be used for play or musical titles unless the title is repeated in the post. | |
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| re: Even though there are no rules | |
| Posted by: ryhog 07:57 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: Even though there are no rules - dramedy 06:28 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
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| as the self-appointed guardian of that maxim, let me say that before I use an acronym I scrutinize the title for a word that will do. So I find TKAM abhorrent, since Mockingbird works just fine. MFL works for me because you can't really call it by any of the words and make sense. Fiddler is of course immediately understandable although I seem to recall someone referring to it as FOTR and that caused me a some fierce agita. Flower Drum Song, I am pretty sure I have never had occasion to type before now. | |
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| Flower Drum Song | |
| Posted by: TheOtherOne 10:50 am EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: What's FDS? Besides, you know . . . - allineedisthegirl 09:59 am EST 12/31/18 | |
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| n/m | |
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| re: A semi-Apology about the score for REDHEAD... | |
| Posted by: young-walsingham 06:02 am EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: A semi-Apology about the score for REDHEAD... - bmc 06:10 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
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| Any opinions here about the studio or Mexican recordings? Must admit the Mike Sammes singers have put me off buying so far | |
| Link | Here |
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| re: A semi-Apology about the score for REDHEAD... | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 08:59 pm EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: A semi-Apology about the score for REDHEAD... - young-walsingham 06:02 am EST 12/31/18 | |
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| I haven't heard either, but a friend is very fond of both. He says that the studio recording is just about the best of that whole series. Rita Williams was a terrific singer so I can easily believe it. | |
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| re: A semi-Apology about the score for REDHEAD... | |
| Posted by: TXTyler 08:34 am EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: A semi-Apology about the score for REDHEAD... - young-walsingham 06:02 am EST 12/31/18 | |
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| The Mexican recording is quite charming, barring some clunkers from the orchestra. Virma González and Armando Calvo both give great performances. I probably listen to it as much as the OBC, but then I have a bizarre fixation on Mexican musical theatre. I’d say give the disc a try. I haven’t heard the accompanying studio recording so I can’t give you an opinion either way on that release. Ty |
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| re: A semi-Apology about the score for REDHEAD... | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 06:50 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
| In reply to: A semi-Apology about the score for REDHEAD... - bmc 06:10 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
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| I like the score, but was disappointed when I saw a one-night scaled-down production. Even allowing for that (and that the lead was not high caliber in a role that demands high caliber), it was the libretto I found lackluster. Weirdly, I had a blast at a similar staging of ONE TOUCH OF VENUS. The corn was indeed as high as an elephant's eye, but the story rattled along like gabgbusters and I laughed all the way. Laura |
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| re: I love the REDHEAD score ... | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 08:35 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
| In reply to: re: A semi-Apology about the score for REDHEAD... - showtunetrivia 06:50 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
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| I was lucky enough to see the original production, with the original cast, on tour in Los Angeles. I loved it! The book needs a bit of work (and there is a team working on this). In the age of #MeToo there are some cringeworthy lyrics, and I imagine there are some folk who find any show where a woman's goal is to get married beyond the pale today. Despite the book being a little confusing - its easy enough to untangle. One just needs a fabulous dancer who is a quirky/sexy actress, and fascinating singer to pull it off. Richard Kiley and Leonard Stone were great in the show, as was Ms Verdon, of course. There are many things not fun about getting older. But having been able to see REDHEAD is one of the things that makes it worthwhile! |
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| re: I love the REDHEAD score ... | |
| Posted by: Alcindoro 10:46 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
| In reply to: re: I love the REDHEAD score ... - NewtonUK 08:35 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
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| >In the age of #MeToo there are some cringeworthy lyrics, and I imagine there are some folk who find any show where a woman's goal is to get married beyond the pale today< So there aren't any women around anymore who really want to get married? Hunh. Another "problem", at least with the #MeToo-ers, might be that the show opens with the onstage murder of a woman by a serial killer who is plaguing London. And Essie's aunts run a wax museum which is capitalizing on the murders. Hmmm. |
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| re: I love the REDHEAD score ... | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 07:50 am EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: I love the REDHEAD score ... - Alcindoro 10:46 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
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| Well - its what wax museums do. If you're famous or notorious, you appear. And, well, yes, Essie is 29 and unmarried, and at the time the show takes place, marriage would be retreating as s possibility. I was thinking of the scene in Act 1 which goes like this: TOM (The Richard Kiley character) Well, Miss Whimple, I'll be seeing you. ESSIE (VErdon): Oh, that;ll be nice! When? TOM: Oh, no, 'I'll be seeing you' is just an American expression for saying 'good-bye'. (swats her on rear end and exits) ESSIE: I feel.... I feel ... (ESSIE touches her rear where TOM swatted her, and begins to sing) I FEEL MERELY MARVELOUS WILDER THAN THE SEA I LOOK NEARLY BEAUTIFUL I DON'T LOOK LIKE ME! IT'S A BLOOMING MIRACLE WHAT A SMACK CAN DO I COULD FLY I COULD SOAR I COULD CRY I CoULD ROAR MAKE IT REAL MAKE HIM FEEL MERELY MARVELOUS TOO! I find this rather charming and winning, especially thinking of Verdon's performance. But some would not |
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| re: I love the REDHEAD score ... | |
| Posted by: scoot1er 08:59 am EST 12/31/18 | |
| In reply to: re: I love the REDHEAD score ... - NewtonUK 07:50 am EST 12/31/18 | |
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| I, too, am lucky enough to have seen Rehead on Broadway. Gwen Verdon was a wonder, as she was in everything she did. (I didn’t see Children! Children!, but then again, not many did.) The afternoon I saw it she cut “I’ll Try”. Lehman Engel said they often cut that song if she was tired. I saw Sweet Charity a few times and she sang “Where Am I Going” only at the preview. She cut it every other time. Nevertheless, I loved her. | |
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| re: A semi-Apology about the score for REDHEAD... | |
| Posted by: Snowysdad 07:48 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
| In reply to: re: A semi-Apology about the score for REDHEAD... - showtunetrivia 06:50 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
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| That is really interesting about One Touch of Venus. I am a Kurt Weill freak, early and late. Until the Jay recording came out I only knew the score from the Decca Cast album and the Ben Bagley cuts. I have always found it a bit hard to really imagine how songs work with in a show from Bagley's albums, although no doubt they were immensely important in their time, but the arrangements were all over the place, far from true to the original intent and the performances wildly variable. Once I heard the Jay recording I went............HUH??????? I find it the most disjointed piece Weill ever wrote, two different musicals at once, one for the romantic leads, and another for the secondary couple and all their hangers on. And how and why "in New Jersey" and "Dr. Crippen" belong in the same musical as "I'm a Stranger Here Myself," "Speak Low" and the better known songs I have no idea. Granted the book is by two legends, S. J. Perleman and Ogden Nash, neither one a minor talent, so perhaps the book, corny as you describe it, but of its period holds all this together, but I can't grasp it from the recording. Thanks, as always for your insight. |
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| Venus -- TV Version | |
| Posted by: stevemr 10:59 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
| In reply to: re: A semi-Apology about the score for REDHEAD... - Snowysdad 07:48 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
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| The 1950's TV version with Janet Blair and Russell Nype is available on Amazon Prime. Even though abridged, it contains a lot more of the score than the Ava Gardner movie. | |
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| VENUS | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 08:14 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
| In reply to: re: A semi-Apology about the score for REDHEAD... - Snowysdad 07:48 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
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| I was pleasantly surprised how well the score worked, even though it seemed in places like the show was put together with scotch tape and a prayer. It was just plain fun. I'm a Weillophile, too, and even used this musical as inspiration for an offbeat fantasy short story, "One Touch of Hippolyta," in which an overworked museum curator gets advice on running her life from a statue of an Amazon warrior who comes to life. Laura |
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| re: A semi-Apology about the score for REDHEAD... | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 07:25 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 07:19 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
| In reply to: re: A semi-Apology about the score for REDHEAD... - showtunetrivia 06:50 pm EST 12/30/18 | |
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| I enjoy the recording of "Redhead" very much, but I believe a lot of the show's success was due to the Tony-winning performances of Gwen Verdon, Richard Kiley and Leonard Stone, all of whom sound as though they are giving wonderful characterizations on the recording. But more than that, Verdon insisted on giving Bob Fosse his first directing credit (prior he had only done choreography) on Broadway when she signed on for the show, and it's apparently one of the most dance-heavy for a leading lady, which showed off all kinds of stylistic dance versatility and endurance for Verdon and the dance ensemble through Fosse's choreography. Plus she's got to act, sing and be extremely charming in the songs and book scenes. It's considered a lot harder to cast than the later also-demanding role of "Sweet Charity". Someone like Sandy Duncan would probably have been terrific in the role as well. | |
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