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| re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 04:15 pm EST 02/18/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday - Snowysdad 02:55 pm EST 02/18/19 | |
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| In my mind I have serious doubts that Will Chase (based on the Encore's Pipe Dream) can fulfill my expectations. Part of the problem, of course, is that styles have changed, and for the most part, the true beefy "legit" baritone in musical theatre has been replaced by the "baritenor" - and I would tend to put Will Chase in that category. But I do think he has some heft in his voice, in his favor - not as much as Drake did, of course, but again, that's just not quite the style of musical theatre these days. However, I do like Chase a lot, on his own terms, so I'm willing to see what he can bring to the role. |
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| re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 05:29 pm EST 02/18/19 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 05:24 pm EST 02/18/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday - Chromolume 04:15 pm EST 02/18/19 | |
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| It's not too much of a stylistic adjustment for audiences to hear a legit baritone voice as opposed to a baritenor, especially if that was how the role was written. I mean for sopranos, they even transposed DOWN Kristin Chenoweth's Marian in "The Music Man" on tv, I guess for fear that audiences are scared of the high notes of a soprano. If people would cast these things properly and in the right keys, they'd be more authentic to the style in which they were written. Chase sounded more to me like a tenor in the things I've seen him in, though it's possible this suits him fine. I forget who they cast in "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn" at Encores, but it was someone more of a tenor, possibly Jason Danieley who is usually very fine in tenor roles, which made the main character's baritone tessitura songs not come across as strongly as they should. John Raitt was a real baritenor (with more of a tenor's placement), but Alfred Drake, Gordon MacRae, and others were much more baritone, with Howard Keel more bass-baritone. Casting someone whose tessitura is higher robs a lot of these Golden Age musicals of some gravitas, machismo and force in these roles, for the most part. | |
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| re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 05:32 pm EST 02/18/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday - PlayWiz 05:24 pm EST 02/18/19 | |
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| If people would cast these things properly and in the right keys Define "right key" lol. The truest definition is the key that fits the performer's voice. (That is to say, Drake's keys were chosen for Drake's voice - but that doesn't mean that those keys are definitive.) And also don't forget that original published scores are usually tailored to what happened on tour, not always the original Broadway keys. (And, if you check out the notes to the new critical edition of the 1948 score, there's a lot of history on the alternate keys for "Another Op'nin.") I can guarantee you that Chase will be singing in the right keys - for HIM. And that's always how shows are performed, whether your name is Chase, Drake, or whatever. |
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| re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 05:50 pm EST 02/18/19 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 05:48 pm EST 02/18/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday - Chromolume 05:32 pm EST 02/18/19 | |
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| I guess it has changed in terms of how much it costs to transpose the entire orchestration of a role with the software now available, plus the fact that most orchestras of today are usually use a lot less instruments than when these shows were done originally. Some producers are notoriously cheap. I heard the story of a replacement call for a show being between two actors, one they were leaning towards, but they said "bring out the costume", and the other actor fit it without the production having to pay alterations. Key changes are/were kind of like that and on a grander scale. So why are companies' casting notices of today many times saying specifically what the ranges of the roles are in terms of top and bottom notes, if the role can be transposed? | |
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| re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 06:00 pm EST 02/18/19 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 05:59 pm EST 02/18/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday - PlayWiz 05:48 pm EST 02/18/19 | |
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| So why are companies' casting notices of today many times saying specifically what the ranges of the roles are in terms of top and bottom notes, if the role can be transposed? Because it's always easier not to transpose if possible (time and money being issues) - especially if we're talking regional productions, etc. On Broadway, you better believe keys are always adjusted to the first cast (regardless of the key the composer wrote the songs in - that just doesn't matter) - and when new stars come in, they are usually adjusted then as well. (compare the 2 recordings of Spider Woman for a number of examples with all 3 of the leads). You may not realize, for instance, though, that most of Merman's keys for Gypsy were higher than in the published score (and likewise, the rental materials)? Just for an example. And even in Kate, if I recall correctly, Kirk's key for "Why Can't You Behave" was lower than in the published score. |
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| re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 07:48 pm EST 02/18/19 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 07:44 pm EST 02/18/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday - Chromolume 05:59 pm EST 02/18/19 | |
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| Okay, I appreciate your responses, and have another one for you, Chromolume (or anyone else who thinks they may know). Years ago, I was sitting at the bar at Sardi's with a gent, whose portrait was nearby on one of the walls. I'm not sure if this is true, and it's the only time I ever heard it, but we were discussing the show "Nine" original cast, and he said that shows put the keys like a half-step (or a whole step) above someone's optimal tessitura, to make it somewhat harder for them so as to register for the audience more as "excitement". I don't know about this, though I do maintain that Raul Julia, as excellent as his acting and overall performance was in "Nine" was struggling with some of his songs. They really should have been put in lower keys, as he had problems with the tessitura and the high notes on the several times I saw the show. But what about this gent from Sardi's contention? Have you ever heard of it? | |
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| re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:15 am EST 02/19/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday - PlayWiz 07:44 pm EST 02/18/19 | |
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| *Years ago, I was sitting at the bar at Sardi's with a gent, whose portrait was nearby on one of the walls. I'm not sure if this is true, and it's the only time I ever heard it, but we were discussing the show "Nine" original cast, and he said that shows put the keys like a half-step (or a whole step) above someone's optimal tessitura, to make it somewhat harder for them so as to register for the audience more as "excitement". * I haven't heard it phrased that way exactly, but I have heard that, in the era before body mics and high-level voice amplification, keys tended to be placed at the very top of a performer's vocal range to aid in projection and audibility. I have a very clear memory of Robert Morse telling me, during an interview, that Frank Loesser would bring the lead actors into a Broadway theater -- ideally, the theater where the show would be playing -- to set the keys there. And I thought that really spoke to the brilliance of Loesser. |
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| re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday | |
| Posted by: Unhookthestars 12:48 am EST 02/19/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday - Michael_Portantiere 12:15 am EST 02/19/19 | |
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| For what it’s worth, I remember watching the “Masterclass” documentary series on HBO many years ago. In the episode starring Patti Lupone, she encourages one of the young musical-theater aspirants who was having trouble conveying emotion or generating excitement in her performance to try singing the song again in a higher key to raise the physical stakes (i.e., as your “gent” said, to make the physical act of singing harder), and hopefully, the emotional stakes with it. It worked like magic. | |
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| re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 05:20 pm EST 02/19/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday - Unhookthestars 12:48 am EST 02/19/19 | |
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| I would say that I'm sure this happens in shows, but that it probably depends on the show, and of course, on the performers. In a case like Nine, where the role of Guido is already quite taxing in terms of stage time, etc, I might think they wouldn't want to risk tiring his voice out further by raising keys - but I don't know what actually happened. | |
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| re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 07:55 pm EST 02/18/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday - PlayWiz 07:44 pm EST 02/18/19 | |
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| I can't say I ever heard that. As a musical director/vocal coach, I would have been against doing that. Especially in the case of an open-ended run like that. | |
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| re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday | |
| Posted by: Snowysdad 06:26 pm EST 02/18/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Kiss Me, Kate and The Band’s Visit Yesterday - Chromolume 05:59 pm EST 02/18/19 | |
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| Thank you everyone for the interesting replies vis a vis keys, baritone vs. baritenor, etc. For me, the dark hue of Drake's voice is de rigeur for this part. | |
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