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| Are jukebox musicals dumbing down Broadway or just giving us what we want? | |
| Posted by: StageDoorEddie 09:07 pm EST 02/21/19 | |
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| Theater & Dance Perspective Nelson Pressley, Theater Critic, Washington Post |
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| Link | Jukebox Musicals |
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| Audiences Get What They Pay For | |
| Posted by: tmdonahue (tmdonahue@yahoo.com) 11:45 am EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: Are jukebox musicals dumbing down Broadway or just giving us what we want? - StageDoorEddie 09:07 pm EST 02/21/19 | |
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| I've been collecting some statistics for a 2nd edition of one of our early books. There really haven't been many Juke Box musicals until recently. And I'm struck by how many jukebox musicals failed. Elvis Presley, Bob Dylan, Frank Sinatra (Come Fly Away--a dance revue), The Beatles (Let it Be), Jimmy Buffett, The Go-Gos (Head Over Heels), and Donna Summer whose show averaged about 50% of possible gross in its brief run, and maybe others. "Rock of Ages" recouped in the last days of their 2,328 performance run. "Cher" in the last reported week only made 67% of gross, in its 15th week. Don't think it will recoup. The audience hasn't dumbed down but maybe the producers have. (LOL) I think that other comments have also been correct. There's a dearth of composers for Broadway musicals. |
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| Link | Link to my latest book "Playing for Prizes" |
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| 3 of 11 new musicals are jukebox | |
| Last Edit: dramedy 11:29 am EST 02/22/19 | |
| Posted by: dramedy 11:28 am EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: Are jukebox musicals dumbing down Broadway or just giving us what we want? - StageDoorEddie 09:07 pm EST 02/21/19 | |
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| Cher, head over heels, temptations I think a worse trend is movies to musical which we have 4 this season also: King Kong, tootsie, pretty woman and BEETLEJUICE. The new ones are gettin band, hadestown, chill and prom. At this point it’s pretty safe to say that all the shows that have opened so far are going to close at a loss. I thought pretty woman might be a hit but it has fallen from the million dollar club. Cher is probably an expensive show to run and the weekly grosses just cover the costs without much back to investors. Prom probably is losing some each week. And of course heels and band are closed flops. |
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| re: 3 of 11 new musicals are jukebox | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 11:46 am EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: 3 of 11 new musicals are jukebox - dramedy 11:28 am EST 02/22/19 | |
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| I think a worse trend is movies to musicals which we have 4 this season also: King Kong, Tootsie, Pretty Woman and Beetlejuice Of course, we've had endless conversations about this out here lol. Movies as source materials for musicals goes back at least as far as the 1960's and Nights Of Cabiria: The Musical (better known, of course, as Sweet Charity) - if that was even the first one, which it may not have been. There have been plenty of well-written musicals with films as their source - surely as many as the ones we like to deplore. But I'm sure we can point to a similar success/failure rate with musicals based on novels, etc. What has seemed to have changed is the marketing angle - that we tend to see more film-based musicals that rely on title recognition and/or the nostalgia/fame of the film source, instead of perhaps choosing a film source MAINLY because it actually has something special and unique to offer in musicalization. But I don't think the problem is in the "trend" of using films as a source - it's HOW that source is used and presented. (And given that, I'm looking forward to Tootsie in particular, because I feel that David Yazbek has consistently been very smart in his choice of films to adapt and in how to adapt them - even if not all of his shows have been huge hits with the public. Even Women On The Verge..., probably his least successful show to date, has a score that I admire a great deal.) |
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| re: 3 of 11 new musicals are jukebox | |
| Posted by: keikekaze 01:53 pm EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: re: 3 of 11 new musicals are jukebox - Chromolume 11:46 am EST 02/22/19 | |
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| Broadway first started adapting movies into musicals in the early 1950s, as far as I can tell. Hazel Flagg (1953) was based on the 1937 film Nothing Sacred; Fanny (1954) on the Marcel Pagnol movie trilogy (Marius, Cesar, and Fanny) of the 1930s; Silk Stockings (1955) on Ninotchka; Seventh Heaven (1955) on an early sound film of the same title, etc., etc. It can be argued that The King and I was actually based on the 1946 film of Anna and the King of Siam, though only Margaret Landon's book was credited. I haven't been able to locate any Broadway musicals from the 1940s or earlier based on movies, though there might have been some. One of the differences between the movie-to-stage-musical adaptations of the 20th century and those now is that in the 20th century Broadway creatives went looking for movies that they wanted to adapt, for some reason. In this century, it's often the case that Hollywood studios, seeking to squeeze more money out of their old properties, are commissioning and financing these Broadway musical projects themselves. It seems they don't always consider whether the property in question would make a good musical; it gets the treatment because it's there. However, like you, I'm looking forward to the Tootsie musical, mainly because I'm a great admirer of Yazbek and of the Women on the Verge score in particular. |
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| re: 3 of 11 new musicals are jukebox | |
| Posted by: Ann 02:07 pm EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: re: 3 of 11 new musicals are jukebox - keikekaze 01:53 pm EST 02/22/19 | |
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| I feel the score for Tootsie has more "musical memory moments" from Women on the Verge than his other work (though sometimes they are brought to memory, too - he has a style). | |
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| re: 3 of 11 new musicals are jukebox | |
| Posted by: keikekaze 10:26 pm EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: re: 3 of 11 new musicals are jukebox - Ann 02:07 pm EST 02/22/19 | |
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| Where did you hear the Tootsie score? Did you see the show in tryouts? | |
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| re: 3 of 11 new musicals are jukebox | |
| Posted by: Ann 08:28 am EST 02/23/19 | |
| In reply to: re: 3 of 11 new musicals are jukebox - keikekaze 10:26 pm EST 02/22/19 | |
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| Yes, I saw it in Chicago. | |
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| I agree with your points. | |
| Posted by: dramedy 12:10 pm EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: re: 3 of 11 new musicals are jukebox - Chromolume 11:46 am EST 02/22/19 | |
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| I shouldn’t make broad stroke that movie musicals are bad just like some juke boxes are also good. | |
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| re: 3 of 11 new musicals are jukebox | |
| Posted by: Pokernight 11:51 am EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: re: 3 of 11 new musicals are jukebox - Chromolume 11:46 am EST 02/22/19 | |
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| I'd like to add musicals based on Animated films aimed at the kiddies. So few have been palatable. But that's just me. | |
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| re: Curious why nobody ever brings up Crazy For You, Nice Work.....An American In Paris, etc.... | |
| Posted by: bway1430 02:08 am EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: Are jukebox musicals dumbing down Broadway or just giving us what we want? - StageDoorEddie 09:07 pm EST 02/21/19 | |
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| Would those not also count as 'jukebox musicals'....new shows built around old, well-known songs? | |
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| re: Curious why nobody ever brings up Crazy For You, Nice Work.....An American In Paris, etc.... | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 03:51 pm EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Curious why nobody ever brings up Crazy For You, Nice Work.....An American In Paris, etc.... - bway1430 02:08 am EST 02/22/19 | |
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| The one difference is that the Gershwin songs were written for the theater. | |
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| re: Curious why nobody ever brings up Crazy For You, Nice Work.....An American In Paris, etc.... | |
| Posted by: comedywest 11:19 am EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Curious why nobody ever brings up Crazy For You, Nice Work.....An American In Paris, etc.... - bway1430 02:08 am EST 02/22/19 | |
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| Or Singin in the Rain...but in those cases the writers put some serious thought into the book. I twas just a case of stringing together songs on a thin plot. | |
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| or going back further, GEORGE M (one of the first jukebox musicals?) | |
| Posted by: dreambaby 10:40 am EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Curious why nobody ever brings up Crazy For You, Nice Work.....An American In Paris, etc.... - bway1430 02:08 am EST 02/22/19 | |
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| I recently saw the 1970 televised adaptation of the 1969 musical starring Joel Grey, GEORGE M, and wondered about its place in the history and pantheon of jukebox musicals. I'm certain there were similar musicals developed utilizing a song catalog before it, but can't name any off the top of my head. | |
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| re: or going back further, GEORGE M (one of the first jukebox musicals?) | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 11:03 am EST 02/22/19 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 10:59 am EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: or going back further, GEORGE M (one of the first jukebox musicals?) - dreambaby 10:40 am EST 02/22/19 | |
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| There have been composer-themed revues for decades...many of them not produced on Broadway (too small, etc) and many of them not all that well-known, but I'm sure regional/community/school groups do them all the time. Obviously, there are the more well-known ones like Side By Side By Sondheim (and the other Sondheim revues), Ain't Misbehavin', Closer Than Ever and Starting Here, Starting Now, Jacques Brel, etc. Or shows like Forever Plaid, The Taffettas, The Marvelous Wonderettes, etc, which target both a sense of period and the boy/girl group style. There have been a few Cole Porter revues (most notably the London-born "Cole"), there was the Noel Coward "Cowardly Custard," a few Rodgers revues (at least 2 well-known ones about the Rodgers and Hammerstein catalog, and one called "Sing For Your Supper" with Rodgers and Hart songs), some Irving Berlin revues, and then others that were less Broadway-centric but featured composers/lyricists of the same golden era, like Stardust, Swingin' On A Star, etc. Or, revues like Tintypes that have a more overt historical take on music of a certain period. (And more - there are revues about Loesser, Harburg, Kander And Ebb, Herman, Finn, and on and on...) So yes, there have been many, many of these. Do we consdier them to be "jukebox" retroactively (before the term was ever used to describe such shows)? I guess that's a personal decision as to what their classification is. But yes, the idea of revues that use composers/writers/performers as a common theme have been around for a long time. |
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| re: or going back further, GEORGE M (one of the first jukebox musicals?) | |
| Posted by: dreambaby 12:49 pm EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: re: or going back further, GEORGE M (one of the first jukebox musicals?) - Chromolume 10:59 am EST 02/22/19 | |
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| I didn't see the Broadway production of George M. Was it considered a revue, rather than a musical? | |
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| re: or going back further, GEORGE M (one of the first jukebox musicals?) | |
| Last Edit: comedywest 01:24 pm EST 02/22/19 | |
| Posted by: comedywest 01:21 pm EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: re: or going back further, GEORGE M (one of the first jukebox musicals?) - dreambaby 12:49 pm EST 02/22/19 | |
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| I wouldn't say that. I saw the TV version and remember it being very low-key (but then I was a kid and expecting a stage version of "Yankee Doodle Dandy"). But there was a real plot. |
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| re: or going back further, GEORGE M (one of the first jukebox musicals?) | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 07:07 pm EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: re: or going back further, GEORGE M (one of the first jukebox musicals?) - comedywest 01:21 pm EST 02/22/19 | |
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| Yes - George M is a book show - I somehow wasn't thinking about that when I posted about the other revues lol. | |
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| re: Curious why nobody ever brings up Crazy For You, Nice Work.....An American In Paris, etc.... | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 09:45 am EST 02/22/19 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:40 am EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Curious why nobody ever brings up Crazy For You, Nice Work.....An American In Paris, etc.... - bway1430 02:08 am EST 02/22/19 | |
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| Personally, I tend to categorize "jukebox" shows as those specifically involving rock/pop music only (not show music or earlier standards, etc). But yes, you have a point about the shows you mention. I tend to call them the "ersatz Gershwin" shows lol, particularly Crazy and Nice Work. But yes, they do ultimately do the same thing as the jukebox shows. I know how much people love Crazy For You. and that's totally fine - but the show has always irked me a bit. First, the title is better known as a Madonna song, and the corresponding song in the show ("K-razy For You") is a total throwaway that barely registers. (I think calling the show I Got Rhythm or even Who Could Ask For Anything More might have made more sense, lol.) Second, as is his wont, it's essentially a typical rewrite by Ludwig (the mistaken identity plot from his Lend Me a Tenor revamped), which means it's in essence a recycled book (Ludwig's, not the Girl Crazy book) with songs that IMO tend to showcase themselves better on their own. So, even with a number of entertaining moments, it has always felt like too much of a piecemeal show to me, that might have been better as an all-out revue with Stroman choreo. (And, as is, I feel that the marvelous Stroman choreo is the main reason the show exists.) But, as I said, others love the show as is, so I know my opinion isn't going to go over too well out here, lol. (But all in all, I can't imagine that a well-produced full-scale revival of the actual Gershwin Girl Crazy by Ockrent/Stroman, with a moderate amount of book/score tweaking would have been that inferior.) |
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| re: Curious why nobody ever brings up Crazy For You, Nice Work.....An American In Paris, etc.... | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 03:53 pm EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Curious why nobody ever brings up Crazy For You, Nice Work.....An American In Paris, etc.... - Chromolume 09:40 am EST 02/22/19 | |
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| You’re wrong. The show was great and the title song registered. | |
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| re: Curious why nobody ever brings up Crazy For You, Nice Work.....An American In Paris, etc.... | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 07:09 pm EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Curious why nobody ever brings up Crazy For You, Nice Work.....An American In Paris, etc.... - KingSpeed 03:53 pm EST 02/22/19 | |
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| No, I'm not wrong. You have your opinion and I have mine. I did say that my opinion might not be a popular one. But I do maintain that if you sneezed in that opening scene where Bobby is auditioning, you'd miss the title song. ;-) Offhand, it's hard to think of another show where the title song (assuming there is one) is so slight. |
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| re: Curious why nobody ever brings up Crazy For You, Nice Work.....An American In Paris, etc.... | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 03:29 am EST 02/25/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Curious why nobody ever brings up Crazy For You, Nice Work.....An American In Paris, etc.... - Chromolume 07:09 pm EST 02/22/19 | |
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| If you get to The Pajama Game one minute after the curtain has gone up, you've missed the title song. And even if you're there, you might miss it. On the OBCR, from when Eddie Foy, Jr., starts to sing it till he gets to the end of it is 15-and-a-half seconds. And the Annie title song is pretty negligible. And moving to Martin Charnin's next show, the I Remember Mama title song comes in the first couple of minutes of the show and it's less than a minute long. I don't know what's in the licensed version now, but there wasn't actually a reprise at the end in the original production, even though the opening night playbill listed one. And there's Brigadoon, in which the title song is sung offstage, mostly under dialogue, and even if you could hear it, the end is not sung in the first scene. It's not till the end last scene that all the words are sung, and again it's all sung offstage, mostly under dialogue, and until the last bars, it's sung quietly. |
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| re: Curious why nobody ever brings up Crazy For You, Nice Work.....An American In Paris, etc.... | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 05:56 pm EST 02/25/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Curious why nobody ever brings up Crazy For You, Nice Work.....An American In Paris, etc.... - AlanScott 03:29 am EST 02/25/19 | |
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| After I posted this, I did think of Pajama Game. :-) Btw - there is a reprise in the published/licenced score - and the tune is also used for the music of the "fashion show" at the end. Good catch on all of these. ;-) |
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| re: Curious why nobody ever brings up Crazy For You, Nice Work.....An American In Paris, etc.... | |
| Posted by: EvFoDr 10:46 am EST 02/26/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Curious why nobody ever brings up Crazy For You, Nice Work.....An American In Paris, etc.... - Chromolume 05:56 pm EST 02/25/19 | |
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| I always felt the title song to Hairspray was a bit of a throwaway. I mean, it is! Really just a jingle for a sponsor ad. Not that it matters since the show is bursting with spectacular numbers. One of my all time favorite modern day musicals. | |
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| Article mentions these types of shows | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 08:29 am EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Curious why nobody ever brings up Crazy For You, Nice Work.....An American In Paris, etc.... - bway1430 02:08 am EST 02/22/19 | |
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| “Trying to glue a song catalogue to an original story, like the goofy “Mamma Mia!” or Twyla Tharp’s daring Billy Joel dance drama “Movin’ Out,” is even more fraught with formulaic pitfalls, although breakthroughs happen...” | |
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| This, too, will pass. | |
| Posted by: keikekaze 11:42 pm EST 02/21/19 | |
| In reply to: Are jukebox musicals dumbing down Broadway or just giving us what we want? - StageDoorEddie 09:07 pm EST 02/21/19 | |
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| As the article notes, there are vastly more flops in this genre than hits. And who's left who would draw a large audience who hasn't already been done? The Rolling Stones? And . . . ? | |
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| Vastly more flops than hits is even across the different types | |
| Posted by: dramedy 11:35 am EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: This, too, will pass. - keikekaze 11:42 pm EST 02/21/19 | |
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| Beautiful outlasted gentleman’s guide and so did jersey boys over my favorite drowsy chaperone. Musicals run around 25% success rate and I don’t think juke box is far off from that. | |
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| re: Vastly more flops than hits is even across the different types | |
| Posted by: keikekaze 01:21 pm EST 02/22/19 | |
| In reply to: Vastly more flops than hits is even across the different types - dramedy 11:35 am EST 02/22/19 | |
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| Yes, I know. What I'm saying is that any Broadway producer who is contemplating putting on The Unsinkable Milli Vanilli or Oh, Captain and Tenille! because s/he thinks a jukebox musical is a shortcut to success may be in for a rude awakening. | |
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| neither/both | |
| Posted by: ryhog 09:44 pm EST 02/21/19 | |
| In reply to: Are jukebox musicals dumbing down Broadway or just giving us what we want? - StageDoorEddie 09:07 pm EST 02/21/19 | |
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| the sub-genre is the product of a lack of enough resonant new work. the use of existing songs is not inherently dumb or lazy, but it solves the resonance issue up front. it's like the rag trade, but different. | |
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| The former (nm) | |
| Last Edit: MockingbirdGirl 09:14 pm EST 02/21/19 | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 09:14 pm EST 02/21/19 | |
| In reply to: Are jukebox musicals dumbing down Broadway or just giving us what we want? - StageDoorEddie 09:07 pm EST 02/21/19 | |
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