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| re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... | |
| Posted by: EvFoDr 10:55 am EST 03/06/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... - JohnPopa 09:06 am EST 03/06/19 | |
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| Hasn't Art of the Possible always been in the materials, having been cemented as the official version by the Prince staging in London, pre-Broadway, and Broadway? I've never seen a production (and I've seen MANY, it's my favorite) that used The Lady's Got Potential. Only in the movie, and the concept recording. Personally I think it could be fun to figure out a way to stage "Potential" in the live version, and I mean the version that was used in the movie. I don't think anyone cares about Che and his insecticide (a la the concept album). I thought "Potential" in the movie was a far more interesting way to track Peron's rise to power than Art of the Possible. And it dovetails with Eva's rise to fame. On the negative side, we might lose Eva's verse of "I'm only a radio star with just one weekly show" as interjected in "Possible". Overall, probably not going to happen. "Potential" is really a music video montage in the movie, and that might fall flat on stage. In other news, does one HAVE to do You Must Love Me or is it just an option in the materials? I think it's so out of place in the stage version. And I miss the chunks of recitative from the original final bedroom scene. THAT is a much more interesting conversation than You Must Love Me, and I like how it weaves together so many of the musical themes from the show. |
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| re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... | |
| Posted by: JohnPopa 11:59 am EST 03/06/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... - EvFoDr 10:55 am EST 03/06/19 | |
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| Oh, sure, 'Art of the Possible' has always been there but I threw it in case the follow-up question was more 'is the stage version now just like the movie version?' I agree about 'Lady's Got Potential' - love it in the movie but not sure it would be as effective onstage (although I'm sure someone could do it with screens or something.) |
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| re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:48 pm EST 03/06/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... - JohnPopa 11:59 am EST 03/06/19 | |
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| ***Personally I think it could be fun to figure out a way to stage "Potential" in the live version, and I mean the version that was used in the movie. I don't think anyone cares about Che and his insecticide (a la the concept album). I thought "Potential" in the movie was a far more interesting way to track Peron's rise to power than Art of the Possible. And it dovetails with Eva's rise to fame. On the negative side, we might lose Eva's verse of "I'm only a radio star with just one weekly show" as interjected in "Possible". Overall, probably not going to happen. "Potential" is really a music video montage in the movie, and that might fall flat on stage.*** I love "The Lady's Got Potential" from a musical standpoint, as performed on the concept album, and I love the way it was reworked with new lyrics for the movie. But the stage version of EVITA -- at least, the original stage version -- carefully and skillfully removed or smoothd out and/or reorchestrated all of the obvious "rock" sections of the concept album, so I think "Potential" would stand out if it were restored for a stage production -- unless the production had all new arrangements and orchestrations that restored the rock elements. |
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| re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... | |
| Posted by: GavinLogan1 01:34 pm EST 03/06/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... - Michael_Portantiere 12:48 pm EST 03/06/19 | |
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| The newest licensed version still has quite a lot of "rock" in it, especially the "Sing You fools" section of "O What A Circus" and the officers parts of "Peron's Latest Flame"... so it might not be out of place, from that respect, but I just think the musical language of the song is so vastly different from everything else in the score, not just the rock elements... | |
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| re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... | |
| Last Edit: GavinLogan1 11:15 am EST 03/06/19 | |
| Posted by: GavinLogan1 11:15 am EST 03/06/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... - EvFoDr 10:55 am EST 03/06/19 | |
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| As I said above, I just finished playing Che in a production here in Calgary... "You Must Love Me" is woven nicely into the score, after the Waltz and before "She Is A Diamond"... as for the bedroom scene, the dialogue is entirely intact, I am certain. It's my all-time favourite as well... such a brilliant show. Having "You Must Love Me" in the score is certainly required now, and I can see that some people who know the show well would find this difficult to accept (I did at first) but I grew to appreciate its presence in the score, and in many ways it serves a valuable function in calming the seas after the turbulent waltz and before the final sequence... it's akin to "Could We Start Again, Please?" in SUPERSTAR... which is my favourite song in that show. Musically, even, they're similar-- plaintive ballads of realization and regret. |
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| re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 02:52 pm EST 03/06/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... - GavinLogan1 11:15 am EST 03/06/19 | |
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| ***Having "You Must Love Me" in the score is certainly required now, and I can see that some people who know the show well would find this difficult to accept (I did at first) but I grew to appreciate its presence in the score, and in many ways it serves a valuable function in calming the seas after the turbulent waltz and before the final sequence..... it's akin to "Could We Start Again, Please?" in SUPERSTAR... which is my favourite song in that show. Musically, even, they're similar-- plaintive ballads of realization and regret.**** You make an interesting argument, but since "Eva's Lament" (or whatever the title of her final song) is also a plaintive ballad of realization and regret, doesn't the inclusion of "You Must Love Me" right before it create a redundancy? |
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| re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... | |
| Posted by: GavinLogan1 05:38 pm EST 03/06/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... - Michael_Portantiere 02:52 pm EST 03/06/19 | |
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| It's not right before it-- "You Must Love Me" is about 30 minutes before the end of the show-- and it's a moment of realization for her about her relationship with Juan, perhaps...whereas the "Lament" is her finally understanding what Che was warning her about in "High Flying, Adored"-- that the rewards of achieving success so young, and so vehemently pursuing it, are short-lived, and are followed by exhaustion, sadness, and regret. There's a lot of these moments in the show... I think they're all different enough and subtle enough that none of them is redundant... thoughts? |
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| re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... | |
| Posted by: EvFoDr 12:27 pm EST 03/06/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... - GavinLogan1 11:15 am EST 03/06/19 | |
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| Thanks for the information. I've only seen You Must Love Me in the stage show once, the Broadway revival, and I thought it replaced some of the bedroom scene. However, I could be wrong. I could be confusing it with the movie where it definitely replaced some of the bedroom scene. But that's a one off, not the same conversation as the permanent licensed materials. What bothers me about You Must Love Me is it softens the dynamic between Juan and Eva in a way that rings false to me--but it only rings false because I know the original bedroom scene so well. I don't know for sure which represents the "truth" of how they treated each other. But we often get attached to what we knew "first". The bedroom scene with the separate beds, him barely paying attention to her desperate please as he gets dressed, even when he picks her up off the floor after she collapses it seems more obligatory than out of any affection. In the movie at least, You Must Love Me paints a much different picture. She's weaker and more sympathetic and he seems softer and more loving towards her. |
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| re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... | |
| Posted by: GavinLogan1 01:36 pm EST 03/06/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... - EvFoDr 12:27 pm EST 03/06/19 | |
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| Yes, although in typical Tim Rice fashion, what exactly IS the song saying ? I read it more as a command (You MUST love me) than a realization...you know? Having said that, our production's director was far more sympathetic to Evan and Juan-- he truly believed they were sincere in much of what they did, and he staged their scenes as true love. Interestingly, the audience members I spoke to still saw/ heard Eva as a manipulative vixen and Juan as an opportunist. The text and subtext come through. :) |
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| re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 03:03 pm EST 03/06/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... - GavinLogan1 01:36 pm EST 03/06/19 | |
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| "Yes, although in typical Tim Rice fashion, what exactly IS the song saying ? I read it more as a command (You MUST love me) than a realization...you know?" Also, I've always thought it weird that, because of the way the lyric is set, the stress falls on the word "You Must Love ME." Which raises the question: As opposed to who else? |
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| re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... | |
| Posted by: FiddleMeThis 04:11 pm EST 03/06/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... - Michael_Portantiere 03:03 pm EST 03/06/19 | |
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| Michael is right. YMLM is a redundancy. It’s totaly unnecessary- too much balladry making the second act feel overlong and repetitive. Many productions cut it, and the show is better without. ALW proud of his new composition, and it’s a pretty tune, but dramatically deadly. | |
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| re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... | |
| Posted by: GavinLogan1 05:44 pm EST 03/06/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... - FiddleMeThis 04:11 pm EST 03/06/19 | |
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| If many productions cut it, they do so illegally. Unless they have written consent from Rice and ALW, which I highly doubt they'd receive... It's definitely an interpretive choice. I liked it...but as I stated above, I had to grow to like it. It certainly didn't feel redundant in our production. Also, I don't think Act II is overly ballad heavy... it's got the thrilling "Rainbow High, the rocker "Rainbow Tour", "Money Kept Rolling In" with its relentless 7/8 driving rhythm, the Waltz (not uptempo, but not a ballad either), the (short) reprise of "Peron's Latest Flame"... the "Montage" is a thrilling sequence... I guess you could say "Dice Are Rolling" is a ballad, but it's more of a recitative (a fascinating one, imo). But I could see the argument-- might it also depend on the pacing/ direction of the entire show in general...? |
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| re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... | |
| Posted by: JAllenC3 03:35 pm EST 03/06/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... - Michael_Portantiere 03:03 pm EST 03/06/19 | |
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| I've always taken that stress (and the song as a whole) as a surprised realization on Eva's part that maybe Peron really did love her for who she is and not just the political benefit that she gave him, contrasted with her feelings towards him being one of usefulness like all the men in Goodnight and Thank You. And even at this point she has a hard time believing it is genuine love (hence this section): Why are you at my side? How can I be, any use to you now? Give me a chance, and I'll let you see how Nothing has changed She's still going back to the political nature of their relationship while he is behaving according to a more emotional one. |
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| re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:03 am EST 03/07/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... - JAllenC3 03:35 pm EST 03/06/19 | |
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| "Why are you at my side? How can I be, any use to you now? Give me a chance, and I'll let you see how Nothing has changed" In my opinion, your quoting of these lyrics only stresses that the song is another generic ballad purposely written so it could stand outside of the movie and win an Oscar for Best Song. But on the other hand, I wouldn't be surprise if it's at least partly a trunk song. |
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| re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... | |
| Posted by: EvFoDr 02:24 pm EST 03/06/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Is "You Must Love Me" now in the version of Evita... - GavinLogan1 01:36 pm EST 03/06/19 | |
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| Ha, well it could be interpreted as a command, but accompanied by scenes of Eva in a hospital, a wheelchair, being carried, etc. and delivered by Madonna in what I saw as a non commanding way, I'm not sure. I would like to see a take like your director's. The original certainly leaned towards the interpretation of the audience members you mentioned. Prince's choice to flip the scene after Don't Cry for Me greatly added to this. The words by themselves "listen to that, the voice of Argentina, we are adored we are loved" do not automatically say "manipulation". But having them delivered as a "secret" aside in that way certainly does. It was interesting for me to compare with Here Lies Love. I think Evita, in staging and lyrics, does lean towards being anti-Perons. In Here Lies Love I felt Imelda's situation was presented more neutrally. I found myself pondering for weeks after: was she a terrible person taking advantage of the country or was she a victim who made it big and worked tirelessly for the people? Her husband was portrayed in a more blatantly negative light. |
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