Threaded Order Chronological Order
| Big Monkey. Big Losses. | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 04:26 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
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| KING KONG has been with us for 23 weeks. It has grossed around $17 million, after the usual deductions from Gross Gross (which is the published number). That's $739,000 a week on average. Which is at least $110,000 below minimum weekly costs ($850,000) in the production budget - though I'll bet they're spending more in advertising. The rumor was the show cost about $35 million. Add to that the $2.5 million in weekly losses. In the world of rational producers, and a rational Broadway model, this show is d.o.a. Its hard to look at the numbers and see how KK will ever gross $1.2-.15 million a week, week in week out. So legendary producers (if they would have produced this at all) like David Merrick, or Kermit Bloomgarden would have cut their losses at about week number 3. Or the Shuberts would have politely asked them to leave, assuming they have a stop clause in their license agreement. But Global Creatures seems to have money to burn, and they pay the rent, so they will just stay until they decide to do the Arena Tour or whatever. Its certainly their right to throw away their money. But the Broadway model, in whats some of us consider the good old days, was that bad - even mediocre - shows, which can't find an audience would close, so others could open and take their chances. But not today. |
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| re: Big Monkey. Big Losses. | |
| Posted by: keikekaze 06:45 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
| In reply to: Big Monkey. Big Losses. - NewtonUK 04:26 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
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| I was always surprised that this $35 million production went to Broadway at all, after Spiderman lost $60 million or so earlier in the decade. Some people, it seems, will not learn from other people's mistakes. | |
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| Look at Harry Potter also in $30m category | |
| Posted by: dramedy 09:22 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Big Monkey. Big Losses. - keikekaze 06:45 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
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| And will recoup this year. I would think King Kong and Spider-Man had the name recognition and following. The scores suck and that is one of the major reasons they both failed. At least Spider-Man fights over the audience was thrilling. I really think King Kong should have used holograms for the planes flying over the audience attacking Kong. That would have made it more interactive at the end. Disney world haunted house has holograms 50 years ago. The technology is probably very realistic now. Didn’t Vegas have Michael Jackson show using holograms? | |
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| re: Look at Harry Potter also in $30m category | |
| Posted by: keikekaze 12:33 am EDT 03/12/19 | |
| In reply to: Look at Harry Potter also in $30m category - dramedy 09:22 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
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| Yes, but Harry Potter has a huge international audience right now, and not just kids, either. My sister, in her 60s, is a major fan of the Potter books, and so are most of the other people of all ages that I know. King Kong, on the other hand, is not exactly a new franchise, and it hasn't been rejuvenated lately. The Harry Potter play also benefits from not being a musical--that is, they haven't tried to pull off something that is beyond the range of the creative people involved. As musicals go, King Kong is awful, and so was Spiderman before it. Both belong in theme parks--if anywhere--but are just not good enough to profit on Broadway with those ridiculously outsized production costs. They'd have had to run decades, and they're just not good enough. |
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| re: Big Monkey. Big Losses. | |
| Posted by: ryhog 05:59 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
| In reply to: Big Monkey. Big Losses. - NewtonUK 04:26 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
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| NB: all 3 major landlords are producers. It's silly to talk about some Broadway model as if it were a rule (it never was, but I get the distinction obviously) but the point here is that the business plan was never based on that model. So you are, in essence, trying to judge a polka contest by your understanding of what a waltz is. |
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| re: Big Monkey. Big Losses. | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 06:06 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Big Monkey. Big Losses. - ryhog 05:59 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
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| I'd rather polka. The model was pre 1973, when theatre owners and producers were in a sense partners, instead of the producer just being a tenant paying 100% plus of all the theater owners costs - including property taxes. It was a model,. because if your show wasnt selling, the theatre owner needed another show. Today, as long as there is a tenant willing to pay their bills every week, a show can stay until the theatre owner finds something else they think might be a hit, if the producer is willing to keep writing checks. So the business model has changed - drastically. IMHO not for the better, for producers. For theatre owners, most definitely for the better. Keep something in your venue - say Morrissey - and the cash keeps flowing your way. | |
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| re: Big Monkey. Big Losses. | |
| Posted by: ryhog 11:49 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Big Monkey. Big Losses. - NewtonUK 06:06 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
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| First of all, that is not accurate before or after 1973. Secondly, you err via generalization. Third, it's one thing to be nostalgic for pre-1973 shows, but business models? What's the point? Next you'll be waxing nostalgic for the Big 3 automakers' gas-guzzlers, or pre-deregulation air travel. To quote Bette Midler: Why bother? Making shit up when you don't like the facts is so 2019. |
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| re: Big Monkey. Big Losses. | |
| Posted by: carolinaguy 04:40 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
| In reply to: Big Monkey. Big Losses. - NewtonUK 04:26 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
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| My question in these cases is always, "Why?" If the production is obviously not working out financially, why keep it open? Are the producers just so desperate to have something on Broadway that they are willing to take the hit? Are they afraid of admitting such a big financial failure that they're willing to have an even bigger financial failure? Do they have some ridiculous hope of getting a boost from Tony awards? If they want to take this on an arena tour or to Vegas or wherever and advertise it as "direct from Broadway", that standard has been met. |
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| re: Maybe Micky Dolenz can join the cast | |
| Posted by: JAllenC3 04:39 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
| In reply to: Big Monkey. Big Losses. - NewtonUK 04:26 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
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| The current Monkees tour ends this week and they could advertise "Monkee Goes Ape" (not that he helped boost ticket sales for Aida, though he was a terrific Wilbur in the London production of Hairspray). | |
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| Perhaps they need more gorilla marketing. | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 04:36 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
| In reply to: Big Monkey. Big Losses. - NewtonUK 04:26 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
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| I'll get my coat. | |
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| LOL n/m | |
| Posted by: TimDunleavy 04:54 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
| In reply to: Perhaps they need more gorilla marketing. - MockingbirdGirl 04:36 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
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| n/m | |
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| re: Big Monkey. Big Losses. | |
| Posted by: paymon 04:32 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
| In reply to: Big Monkey. Big Losses. - NewtonUK 04:26 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
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| Is the $850,000 nut from the actual investment papers? | |
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| I think Riedel reported $800k when it opened | |
| Posted by: dramedy 09:14 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Big Monkey. Big Losses. - paymon 04:32 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
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| So that’s in the range. And probably higher with more advertising than budgeted in investment sheets. It’s losing money. But not as bad as head over heels. | |
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| re: Big Monkey. Big Losses. | |
| Last Edit: NewtonUK 04:39 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 04:38 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Big Monkey. Big Losses. - paymon 04:32 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
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| Yes. Thats doesnt mean its accurate - exactly. But I would think $8-850K is realistic. For this show. But not in the real world. | |
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| re: Big Monkey. Big Losses. | |
| Posted by: paymon 05:20 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Big Monkey. Big Losses. - NewtonUK 04:38 pm EDT 03/11/19 | |
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| What do you mean "not in the real world?" | |
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