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| re: Not exactly cold-blooded murder, to me | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:19 am EDT 06/20/19 | |
| In reply to: Not exactly cold-blooded murder, to me - Ann 08:57 am EDT 06/20/19 | |
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| "It's obvious that it makes people think (maybe with a smote of the brow), and that's not a bad thing. " I have never bought this argument. If I were to direct a production of SHE LOVES ME set in a maximum security prison, or a production of CAROUSEL set in a colony on Mars, I'm pretty sure both of those productions would "make people think." But that doesn't necessarily mean I have any talent, or that I should be allowed to disrespect the work of great musical theater writers. |
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| re: Not exactly cold-blooded murder, to me | |
| Posted by: BroadwayMarley 02:49 pm EDT 06/21/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Not exactly cold-blooded murder, to me - Michael_Portantiere 10:19 am EDT 06/20/19 | |
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| It seems to me the issue is not whether Fish is brilliant or not. The issue is whether the reimagining as a whole is provocative and done well. I agree with those who think the show succeeds on both counts. It's fine to have a different opinion and not like the show. But it's another thing to say the reimagining is somehow disrespectful. If the original creators were still alive, rather than feel disrespected, they might well have been intrigued and even flattered to see such a different spin on their creation. So, go ahead and voice your opinions against this version but don't reimagine what the creators MIGHT have thought and felt. | |
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| re: Not exactly cold-blooded murder, to me | |
| Posted by: Ann 10:32 am EDT 06/20/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Not exactly cold-blooded murder, to me - Michael_Portantiere 10:19 am EDT 06/20/19 | |
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| I don't think things like this disrespect the work of great musical theater writers,(especially) if they do it without changing what those writers wrote. I might not enjoy them all, or think they all work as real interpretations (as opposed to just throwing stuff out there - the "colony on Mars" sounds like that) I don't know Daniel Fish, and if he's just doing this because he can, just as an exercise, then I guess we're all the fools. I felt he was making some points, or at least offering things that people could draw points from. |
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| re: Not exactly cold-blooded murder, to me | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 08:33 pm EDT 06/20/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Not exactly cold-blooded murder, to me - Ann 10:32 am EDT 06/20/19 | |
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| Actually, as a science fiction/fantasy writer, I can see CAROUSEL in a Martian colony with no problems at all. I mean, even R&H changed the setting of the original LILIOM to 1890s New England. The point is, it's an insular community of some sort where status matters, Billy and Julie don't quite fit, and options for advancement are few. You can do that on Mars. Ooop--well, there is one problem: unless terraforming has gone a long way, Mr. Snow is gonna have a hard time with that fleet.... Laura, feeling sassy |
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| re: Not exactly cold-blooded murder, to me | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 02:35 pm EDT 06/21/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Not exactly cold-blooded murder, to me - showtunetrivia 08:33 pm EDT 06/20/19 | |
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| "Actually, as a science fiction/fantasy writer, I can see CAROUSEL in a Martian colony with no problems at all. I mean, even R&H changed the setting of the original LILIOM to 1890s New England. The point is, it's an insular community of some sort where status matters, Billy and Julie don't quite fit, and options for advancement are few. You can do that on Mars. Ooop--well, there is one problem: unless terraforming has gone a long way, Mr. Snow is gonna have a hard time with that fleet...." Thanks, Laura. But I think there might be one or two other "problems" with setting the show on Mars -- for example, that big song and dance about the weather in June....... |
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| And the clams are really Martians!! | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 04:55 pm EDT 06/21/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Not exactly cold-blooded murder, to me - Michael_Portantiere 02:35 pm EDT 06/21/19 | |
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| So we still have a few kinks to iron out in this adaptation... Laura, still intrigued |
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| Link | Team PhoebeSteps--Walk to Cure Arthritis! |
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| Maybe Martian sheep actually mate in June... | |
| Posted by: garyd 05:53 pm EDT 06/21/19 | |
| In reply to: And the clams are really Martians!! - showtunetrivia 04:55 pm EDT 06/21/19 | |
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| that, at least, would solve one classic problem. | |
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| re: Not exactly cold-blooded murder, to me | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:58 am EDT 06/20/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Not exactly cold-blooded murder, to me - Ann 10:32 am EDT 06/20/19 | |
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| "I don't think things like this disrespect the work of great musical theater writers,(especially) if they do it without changing what those writers wrote. " As has been discussed here at length, including within this thread, Daniel Fish DID change what the creators of OKLAHOMA! wrote. Although many have insisted that not a word of the dialogue has been changed, this is simply not true -- cutting the reference to Jud going after Curly with a knife, and substituting a gun (even if no one actually says the word "gun"), is rewriting, and so is the addition of the line "You know what you have to do." But even if there had been zero cuts or changes to the actual dialogue, the current production has still changed what the writers wrote to a large extent, with the the incorporation of stage business that contradicts what's in the original script (such as the sex scene between Laurey and Jud, and Curly killing Jud with a gun). |
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| re: Not exactly cold-blooded murder, to me | |
| Posted by: JAllenC3 04:18 pm EDT 06/20/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Not exactly cold-blooded murder, to me - Michael_Portantiere 10:58 am EDT 06/20/19 | |
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| You keep talking about this "sex scene" between Laurey and Jud. I didn't see it (or hear it) that way when I saw the show and neither did many other people who saw the production as they've stated here. Is it possible that YOU read into something that Daniel Fish didn't intend? | |
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| re: Not exactly cold-blooded murder, to me | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 04:30 pm EDT 06/20/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Not exactly cold-blooded murder, to me - JAllenC3 04:18 pm EDT 06/20/19 | |
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| "You keep talking about this 'sex scene' between Laurey and Jud. I didn't see it (or hear it) that way when I saw the show and neither did many other people who saw the production as they've stated here. Is it possible that YOU read into something that Daniel Fish didn't intend?" I honestly don't know what you're talking about. As has been noted every time the scene in question has been mentioned, the scene in question takes place in total darkness. Jud and Laurey enter, then the lights black out, then we hear sounds of some kind of sexual interaction -- it could be just very deep kissing, it could be fellatio. Then the lights come up, and we see Jud doing up his pants. So, what did you hear that was different from what I heard? And what do you think the audience is supposed to think is happening in the blackout? |
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| re: Not exactly cold-blooded murder, to me | |
| Posted by: schlepper 04:52 pm EDT 06/20/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Not exactly cold-blooded murder, to me - Michael_Portantiere 04:30 pm EDT 06/20/19 | |
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| "I honestly don't know what you're talking about. As has been noted every time the scene in question has been mentioned, the scene in question takes place in total darkness. Jud and Laurey enter, then the lights black out, then we hear sounds of some kind of sexual interaction -- it could be just very deep kissing, it could be fellatio. Then the lights come up, and we see Jud doing up his pants. So, what did you hear that was different from what I heard? And what do you think the audience is supposed to think is happening in the blackout?" And it could just as easily be the sound of Jud exposing himself and jerking off in front of her. There's nothing at all in the scene to suggest that she was a participant -- willing or otherwise. But I'm sure you'll come back with a 12 paragraph response detailing why that's not the case and why you still hate the show! LOL |
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| re: Not exactly cold-blooded murder, to me | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 05:32 pm EDT 06/20/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Not exactly cold-blooded murder, to me - schlepper 04:52 pm EDT 06/20/19 | |
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| "And it could just as easily be the sound of Jud exposing himself and jerking off in front of her. There's nothing at all in the scene to suggest that she was a participant -- willing or otherwise. But I'm sure you'll come back with a 12 paragraph response detailing why that's not the case and why you still hate the show! " Twelve paragraphs not necessary. At the performance I attended, I definitely heard sounds of Laurey participating in some sort of sexual contact or at least DEEP kissing with Jud -- there were lip smacking sounds from Rebecca Naomi Jones and some soft moaning, in addition to the sounds that were coming from Patrick Vail. Did you honestly think the sounds you heard in the blackout sounded like Jud masturbating, with no reaction or participation from Laurey? I can't imagine what's the point in you or anyone else mischaracterizing the sounds heard in the blackout. It is what it is, and I didn't direct it, I'm only reacting to it. |
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