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| ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** | |
| Last Edit: GrumpyMorningBoy 05:01 pm EDT 06/25/19 | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 04:56 pm EDT 06/25/19 | |
| In reply to: Broadway and Off-Broadway Musicals That Were Filmed With Virtually Their Entire Casts - Dawson 01:52 pm EDT 06/25/19 | |
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| Being a Hollywood film star is an entirely different skill set. For the most part, a movie star for a movie musical is probably going to give a better on-screen performance than the Broadway actor. Yes, rare crossover exceptions exist. They coulda made "My Fair Lady" with Julie Andrews, if the studio had gone for it, and yeah, she might have become a film star via that instead of "Mary Poppins." Who knows. But we are verrrrryyyy far removed from the Golden Age. Considering HOW MUCH CONTENT is out there in the media marketplace, breaking through the noise is harder than ever before. If a film is cast with all unknowns -- no matter how talented they may be -- it simply won't get noticed. Beyond that, I'm willing to argue that I'd rather see a movie musical with actual movie stars -- who can actually sing -- than simply a cast of theater people. Catherine Zeta-Jones in "Chicago," Anne Hathaway in "Les Miz," Amy Adams in "Enchanted," Emma Stone in "La La Land," Zac Efron in "The Greatest Showman," John Travolta in "Hairspray", Emily Blunt in "Mary Popppins Returns" -- they not only sold tickets, but they delivered the goods. They're great film actors. Who, thankfully, all have a background in performing musical theater on stage. Yes, I'm willing to concede that Keala Settle was the best part of "The Greatest Showman." And a few (unknown to the masses) Broadway stars could become movie stars if the timing is right. But being great on screen and being great on stage really is an entirely different skill set. Daveed Diggs was ELECTRIC in HAMILTON. His on-screen performances have been fairly dull. If I were casting a film adaptation of HAMILTON, I wouldn't cast him, even though he was terrific on stage. Some people are great at both. But if you want the film to be a hit, you've gotta cast people who, first and foremost, are great on screen, and have the kind of following and name recognition to get press and visibility. - GMB, who is willing to argue that the few film musical adaptations made with their Broadway casts are not among our "best" movie musicals |
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| re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 07:57 pm EDT 06/25/19 | |
| In reply to: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** - GrumpyMorningBoy 04:56 pm EDT 06/25/19 | |
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| To be fair, Daveed was also underwhelming in "White Noise". I don't think he is as strong as straight realism as he is in a more performative role. | |
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| re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** | |
| Posted by: Snowysdad 06:07 pm EDT 06/25/19 | |
| In reply to: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** - GrumpyMorningBoy 04:56 pm EDT 06/25/19 | |
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| I think it is not as black and white as the posts make it out to be. Some musicals play well with movie actors, even when dubbed but then certain pieces (Chicago is at the top of my list) demand the sense of musical theater from its cast that movie actors can not deliver. Ms. Zeta Jones and Queen Latifa (is there ANYTHING this immensely talented lady can not do and do superbly?) were the only members of the cast that I did not hate. Renee Zellweger and Richard Gere really were miscast. Chicago pulsates with Kander and Ebbs score, so that even when there is no major musical number at hand, the characters have to move as if there were. The Music Man makes the same kind of demands, and mercifully the first movie version cast musical theater pros, albeit some with some screen fame. My Fair Lady doesn't make the same kind of demands. But look at what a mess they made of Carousel, Les Miz (its an opera and none of its cast looked at all like they had the ability to sing it), and so many others. When they get around to filming Wicked, they will need to cast the two leads with experienced stage actresses and ditto for Fiero, but the rest of the cast not so much. | |
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| re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** | |
| Last Edit: GrumpyMorningBoy 08:23 pm EDT 06/25/19 | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 08:19 pm EDT 06/25/19 | |
| In reply to: re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** - Snowysdad 06:07 pm EDT 06/25/19 | |
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| First off, must concur about Queen Latifa. One of the most versatile performers working in America. Easily. Also, good points about how the requirements of a musical really vary by work and role. I don't hate Shirley Jones, but I don't exactly love her either, and yet, she could definitely SING. And considering the way she leapt from an understudy role in ME AND JULIET to star in "Oklahoma!", they undeniably felt like they'd found a real star-in-waiting and took a gamble. She's a natural on screen. I similarly don't have hard feelings about seeing Audrey Hepburn in MY FAIR LADY, Natalie Wood in WEST SIDE STORY, or Debra Kerr in THE KING & I, even if it might have been lovely to see how Marni Nixon might have actually performed these roles if she'd been given the chance to do more than dub the songs! But back to THE KING & I, some roles really do need the Broadway stars. It's impossible to imagine the film without Yul Brenner. Same goes for Robert Preston, Joel Grey, and Robert Morse in their respective starring roles. And yeah, Hollywood really screwed up sometimes. Zero Mostel should have played Tevye on screen. And Carol Channing should have played Dolly. Alas, I do think the current crop is, by and large, doing a good job of splitting the difference. I'm encouraged by the casting notices for Spielberg's "West Side Story" and John Chu's forthcoming "In The Heights." There's such a robust talent pool of actors working in TV & Film who got their start -- and their training -- in musical theatre, and when you've got TV shows like "Glee," "Pose," "Supergirl" and "The Flash" making TV stars of musical theatre people, we're extra lucky. All in all, it's a great time for the movie musical. And if Broadway stars don't have the chance to create their roles in the film versions -- as Idina Menzel will undoubtedly not get to do when WICKED becomes a film -- some of them get to play a Disney character and become a movie stars, anyway. - GMB |
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| re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** | |
| Posted by: Snowysdad 11:46 pm EDT 06/25/19 | |
| In reply to: re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** - GrumpyMorningBoy 08:19 pm EDT 06/25/19 | |
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| Thanks for the compliments. I agree with all of your examples. Many could have played Dolly on screen, not just Carol Channing, but certainly Barbra Streisand was an odd choice at that stage in her career. I salivate when I think of some of the great roles should could have played, had musicals not been death by no box office: Mame Norma Desmond ***************his 68 year old mind goes blank...................... |
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| re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 04:02 pm EDT 06/27/19 | |
| In reply to: re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** - Snowysdad 11:46 pm EDT 06/25/19 | |
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| Streisand wasn't really an odd choice for the DOLLY! film when you consider that she was a huge, Oscar-winning movie star who'd come from the world of musical theatre. She was probably the biggest star of the time who could have played the role. Sure, she was too young for it, but she sang the hell out of it and played the role wonderfully. The actresses who'd played Dolly on stage were mainly thought to be past their prime and I imagine that DOLLY was often considered to be a "comeback" vehicle for faded star ladies who hadn't been seen in quite some time prior. Even Channing had to fight for the role at a time when she hadn't really had a big hit in a decade or more. I can't imagine that any of them were seriously considered for the film. Perhaps Channing was, simply because she'd originated the role. The only other movie star with experience in musicals who was at the near top of her game at the time was Julie Andrews, and I imagine that people would've thought Andrews even more miscast than Streisand. |
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| re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 05:16 pm EDT 06/27/19 | |
| In reply to: re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** - JereNYC 04:02 pm EDT 06/27/19 | |
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| Also Doris Day was still a big name, although around that time she had to commit to a tv series that her recently-deceased husband/manager had saddled her with along with debts. | |
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| re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** | |
| Posted by: Ned3301 06:30 pm EDT 06/27/19 | |
| In reply to: re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** - PlayWiz 05:16 pm EDT 06/27/19 | |
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| Doris Day's ID was that of the absolutely honest and direct woman who was constantly amazed by the unscrupulous nature of the men she got involved with. It was part of the fun that the audience could see instantly what a seductive phony Rock Hudson (for example) could be while it took Day much of the film before she caught on. But Dolly is a finagler, a manipulator. It would have been impossible for the public to accept Day in a role like that, and it seems very unlikely that she was ever seriously considered for Hello, Dolly! Casting her would have thrown the story off its pins. |
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| Doris Day's ID was that of the absolutely honest and direct woman... | |
| Posted by: Dawson 09:01 pm EDT 06/27/19 | |
| In reply to: re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** - Ned3301 06:30 pm EDT 06/27/19 | |
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| Hmm. Love Me or Leave Me. Julie, Midnight Lace. | |
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| Doris Day -- Versatile, Underrated Actress | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 09:35 pm EDT 06/27/19 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 09:34 pm EDT 06/27/19 | |
| In reply to: Doris Day's ID was that of the absolutely honest and direct woman... - Dawson 09:01 pm EDT 06/27/19 | |
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| Also, Storm Warning. In one of her most popular films Calamity Jane, Day drives a stagecoach, battles the Sioux, hangs out in a saloon, is referred to as a teller of tall tales -- and pulls it all off beautifully. BTW she introduces "Secret Love" and knocks it out of the park. | |
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| CALAMITY JANE | |
| Posted by: Dawson 09:48 pm EDT 06/27/19 | |
| In reply to: Doris Day -- Versatile, Underrated Actress - BroadwayTonyJ 09:34 pm EDT 06/27/19 | |
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| As you probably know. Calamity Jane was Warner Brother' consolation prize because they would not loan her to MGM for Annie Get Your Gun. | |
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| re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 06:51 pm EDT 06/27/19 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 06:47 pm EDT 06/27/19 | |
| In reply to: re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** - Ned3301 06:30 pm EDT 06/27/19 | |
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| Doris was offered the role of Mrs. Robinson around that time in "The Graduate". Some folks thought she might like to change up the kinds of roles she could play, since her film career pretty much ended in 1968 with "With Six You Get Eggroll" before she went into that tv show commitment. After that she seemed to lose interest in her acting career. But Mrs. Robinson would have been much more a drastic change to her image than Dolly. Of course, more in line with her image, she would have made a terrific Maria in "The Sound of Music", much as I love Julie Andrews in the role. I've even seen a paperback where the drawing of Maria with the children looks very much like Doris Day! | |
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| re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** | |
| Posted by: Ned3301 10:58 pm EDT 06/27/19 | |
| In reply to: re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** - PlayWiz 06:47 pm EDT 06/27/19 | |
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| They wanted Day for Mrs. Robinson precisely because it went against the image she had established, the idea being to show how treacherous even mid-American suburban life can be. And Day would surely have been superb in the part. But Dolly is, I think, one of those bridges too far. Day as an adulterous termagant--she gets quite vicious when Benjamin interrupts the wedding--would have been a fascinating shock. Dolly would have found her just wrong for the character, neither typical Day nor the opposite. Dolly really is a kind of Topsy, and I just don't associate Day with that kind of mischief-making. I can see her Mrs. Robinson. I can't see her Dolly. For that matter, I think she was too American for Maria--but then so was Mary Martin, and that worked out fine. |
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| re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 11:38 pm EDT 06/27/19 | |
| In reply to: re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** - Ned3301 10:58 pm EDT 06/27/19 | |
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| I think Day as Ruth Etting showed that she could play a calculating, manipulative person who will use someone, even marry him, to further her career, even though she later realizes the pitfalls of this kind of plan of action. While Ruth Etting had her singing talent, Dolly has humor to pad some of her more aggressive machinations. Day might not have been perfect casting, but so many different women have played her over the years. The wonderful writing of her character gives some wide lattitude, and the humor of Dolly really makes her seem real, palatable and a fun person to spend a few hours with. | |
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| re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 11:15 am EDT 06/28/19 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 11:14 am EDT 06/28/19 | |
| In reply to: re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** - PlayWiz 11:38 pm EDT 06/27/19 | |
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| Exactly. Also, in films like It Happened to Jane and Pillow Talk, Day played smart, tough, and (at times) ruthless businesswomen, who could outfox a scumbag competitor (Ernie Kovacs) and exact a little revenge on a deceptive (but likeable) womanizer (Rock Hudson). She actually was considered for Dolly, but I don't know how seriously given the juggernaut for Streisand. Day would have been a fine Dolly Gallagher Levi. She was the right age, had the comic and musical chops, and her real life circumstances in the late 60's were quite similar to Dolly's. She would have brought the poignance to the role that was lacking in Streisand's portrayal. If she had been cast in the film, her frequent co-star Tony Randall would have been a perfect Horace. I think audiences would have responded enthusiastically to see Day as Dolly setting her cap for the guy she always rejected romantically in their previous pairings. |
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| re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 11:27 am EDT 06/28/19 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 11:26 am EDT 06/28/19 | |
| In reply to: re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** - BroadwayTonyJ 11:14 am EDT 06/28/19 | |
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| I love the idea of Tony Randall as Horace! He might even have have transformed in a more believable way than the typical Horace to have some romantic sparks with his Dolly, which he exhibited when Randall played the romantic, but still comic lead opposite Debbie Reynolds in "The Mating Game". | |
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| re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** | |
| Posted by: mermaniac 10:00 pm EDT 06/25/19 | |
| In reply to: re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** - GrumpyMorningBoy 08:19 pm EDT 06/25/19 | |
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| Maureen O'Hara in "The King and I". Judy Garland (or Susan Hayward) in "Gypsy". And, yes, without question: Angie in "Mame." |
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| re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 07:56 pm EDT 06/26/19 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 07:52 pm EDT 06/26/19 | |
| In reply to: re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** - mermaniac 10:00 pm EDT 06/25/19 | |
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| Frank Sinatra, Phil Silvers, and Deanna Durbin as Sky, Nathan, and Sarah in Guys and Dolls -- and put back all those great Frank Loesser songs. Doris Day and Anthony Perkins as Nellie and Joe Cable in South Pacific -- and for God's sake let Juanita Hall sing Mary's songs. |
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| re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 02:32 am EDT 06/27/19 | |
| In reply to: re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** - BroadwayTonyJ 07:52 pm EDT 06/26/19 | |
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| Great casting ideas for "Guys and Dolls" -- Deanna Durbin would have been great. I love Vivian Blaine on the OCR as Adelaide, but I think she was somewhat mis-directed in the film. I wonder if Judy Holliday's name ever came up for the film? Also, why did they take out "Bushel and a Peck" which was one of the best known songs outside of the show and replace it with the lesser Loesser "Pet Me, Poppa"? | |
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| re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 09:19 am EDT 06/27/19 | |
| In reply to: re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** - PlayWiz 02:32 am EDT 06/27/19 | |
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| I read somewhere that Sam Goldwyn loved Blaine's stage performance and insisted that she play Adelaide in the film. I actually like her film performance, but I admit she is very Broadway in the movie. I vaguely recall an interview Blaine did decades ago about "Pet Me, Poppa" replacing "Bushel and a Peck" -- something like the original song was perceived as being too overtly sexual -- she said the reason that was given was pretty dumb. |
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| "And Carol Channing should have played Dolly." | |
| Last Edit: Dawson 08:44 pm EDT 06/25/19 | |
| Posted by: Dawson 08:43 pm EDT 06/25/19 | |
| In reply to: re: ALL of Hollywood's best movie musicals were made with ***movie stars.*** - GrumpyMorningBoy 08:19 pm EDT 06/25/19 | |
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| My understanding is that 20th Century Fox was actively considering Carol Channing for Hello, Dolly!. She even "auditioned" for the film by playing a leading role in Thoroughly Modern Millie. However, even though she was nominated for Best Supporting Actress for her performance, 20th Century Fox decided her performing persona was not really suited to film and passed on her for the film of Dolly!. | |
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