Threaded Order Chronological Order
| re: despicable? | |
| Posted by: Billhaven 11:06 pm EDT 08/23/19 | |
| In reply to: re: despicable? - ryhog 10:54 pm EDT 08/23/19 | |
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| Thoughtless people reinforce stereotypes. They are called out for it. They apologize. It is a teachable moment. The fools at ABC may have learned something. I’m not accepting your definition. I know very well what it’s like to be teased and I know what it’s like to be bullied. In my mind she is a joking idiot, a thoughtless clod, not a bully. | |
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| re: despicable? | |
| Last Edit: ryhog 11:40 pm EDT 08/23/19 | |
| Posted by: ryhog 11:38 pm EDT 08/23/19 | |
| In reply to: re: despicable? - Billhaven 11:06 pm EDT 08/23/19 | |
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| Suppose I said that it licenses bullying? Would you accept that? An 8 year old is watching GMA with his father. The father's dream is that his kid becomes the captain of the high school football team. The son wants to be a choreographer when he grows up. The attitude conveyed in the media becomes dad's (bullying) sword. Scripted and mandated apologies are not teachable moments for that kid. How does ABC make it into an effective and meaningful teachable moment, and will they step up? The dynamic here is very real, not something theoretical, and I agree with Michael's comment below that we shouldn't get hung up on semantics that obscure that. |
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| re: despicable? | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 12:44 am EDT 08/24/19 | |
| In reply to: re: despicable? - ryhog 11:38 pm EDT 08/23/19 | |
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| What 8 year old watches GMA with his father? | |
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| re: despicable? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 09:18 am EDT 08/24/19 | |
| In reply to: re: despicable? - KingSpeed 12:44 am EDT 08/24/19 | |
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| plenty, but of course it does not matter. Millions of people were watching, and tv is their teacher. The rest of what I would write here in a lengthy post has already been covered memorably by Marshall McLuhan. | |
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| re: despicable? | |
| Posted by: portenopete 09:05 am EDT 08/24/19 | |
| In reply to: re: despicable? - KingSpeed 12:44 am EDT 08/24/19 | |
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| LOL. I watched it quietly and ashamed in the silence of my lonely room. |
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| re: despicable? | |
| Posted by: Billhaven 11:50 pm EDT 08/23/19 | |
| In reply to: re: despicable? - ryhog 11:38 pm EDT 08/23/19 | |
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| There is so much more out there , things that kids actually watch again and again. Movies and skits and endless commercials that reinforce gender stereotypes. Watch a couple of episodes of “Friends” again. How about “Superbad”. That was made FOR kids. I can’t get worked up over a thoughtless comment on a morning talk show. There are many more important battles to fight. But fine, take her down and feel you’ve accomplished something. | |
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| re: despicable? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:11 am EDT 08/24/19 | |
| In reply to: re: despicable? - Billhaven 11:50 pm EDT 08/23/19 | |
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| "There is so much more out there , things that kids actually watch again and again. Movies and skits and endless commercials that reinforce gender stereotypes. Watch a couple of episodes of “Friends” again. How about “Superbad”. That was made FOR kids. I can’t get worked up over a thoughtless comment on a morning talk show. There are many more important battles to fight. But fine, take her down and feel you’ve accomplished something." I do see your point, but one could argue that Lara Spencer's comment was just as bad as "Superbad," etc. in its own way, because the comment was made in the context of a news/talk show discussion among supposedly mature and intelligent adults whom one would have thought would have moved way beyond making fun of a young boy because he's taking ballet lessons. |
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| re: despicable? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:29 pm EDT 08/23/19 | |
| In reply to: re: despicable? - Billhaven 11:06 pm EDT 08/23/19 | |
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| "Thoughtless people reinforce stereotypes. They are called out for it. They apologize. It is a teachable moment. The fools at ABC may have learned something. I’m not accepting your definition. I know very well what it’s like to be teased and I know what it’s like to be bullied. In my mind she is a joking idiot, a thoughtless clod, not a bully." I don't see the point in getting hung up over what exactly constitutes "bullying." Her comments, and the reaction of the crowd, were shockingly stupid and harmful -- and one should expect something far better from a highly paid TV "news" person with a huge audience. That definitely includes George Stephanopoulos, whom I will never forget being called out by Ewan McGregor years ago for his childish, idiotic, immature laughter during the discussion of some gay content in one of McGregor's movies. That one seems to have some VERY SERIOUS issues when it comes to homosexuality. I wonder what that's all about???? |
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| re: despicable? | |
| Posted by: Billhaven 11:42 pm EDT 08/23/19 | |
| In reply to: re: despicable? - Michael_Portantiere 11:29 pm EDT 08/23/19 | |
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| I’ve heard enough blather from these morning folks not to be as shocked as you seem to be. They reflect the asinine views of a vast part of their audience. That’s why they are so popular. If it now becomes impossible to apologize for ones remarks without then being called a liar, then what is the future of manners or polite society. Does she have to resign because she made a face? Give up a career because she made a tactless comment? Don’t watch her again. |
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| Thank you, Bill. | |
| Posted by: portenopete 09:08 am EDT 08/24/19 | |
| In reply to: re: despicable? - Billhaven 11:42 pm EDT 08/23/19 | |
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| Let the caravan move on..... | |
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| re: despicable? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 12:01 am EDT 08/24/19 | |
| In reply to: re: despicable? - Billhaven 11:42 pm EDT 08/23/19 | |
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| Billhaven, it's not about Michael not watching her (or you, or me). It's about that kid sitting at home with his father (or mother: Spencer could be laughing at her kid at home.) And the fact that you are not shocked (and that the "blather" reinforces a toxic stereotype for a "vast part of the audience" is the PROBLEM, not some excuse that gives everyone a free pass. (BTW, I am not saying everyone who does something like this has to be fired. The true indictment is the culture at ABC that has not short-circuited this sort of behavior as a matter of corporate responsibility. | |
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| "The fact that you are not shocked...is the PROBLEM..." | |
| Posted by: portenopete 09:24 am EDT 08/24/19 | |
| In reply to: re: despicable? - ryhog 12:01 am EDT 08/24/19 | |
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| Sorry ryhog. I don't know how old you are but I am 53 and I grew up in a world where homophobia- among other ills- was commonplace and acceptable. Sniggering at aspects of gayness was the norm and it didn't necessarily imply virulent prejudice or hatred, just discomfort and unfamiliarity. Hell, if I met a 5-year boy today studying ballet something wry and snarky would spark in my brain and my eyebrow would reflexively rise a smidge. I remember my father flying into a rage when I was watching Rudolf Nureyev on The Muppet Show. (I didn't even care about dance or Nureyev himself; I was just watching the fracking Muppet Show.) Even at the age of ten I could see he was scared and effed up by something he sensed in me (my burgeoning homo-identity) and perhaps something he feared about himself. I'm glad we don't live in an age where such casual, jovial belittling is the norm. But having been reared in it I can't get so upset about a moment that seems pretty minor. Lara Spencer was reared in that same world and a trace of it was revealed. It seems like she's paid her price. If she persists in her mockery, then by all means, ABC: can her and bring back Joan Lunden. |
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| re: "The fact that you are not shocked...is the PROBLEM..." | |
| Posted by: ryhog 09:41 am EDT 08/24/19 | |
| In reply to: "The fact that you are not shocked...is the PROBLEM..." - portenopete 09:24 am EDT 08/24/19 | |
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| I am slightly older than you, and of course it was worse. Thank you for sharing your story. Yes, people have long-ingrained reactions. But people, especially those in positions of responsibility and influence, are obliged to counteract those antiquated markers by training them out of their behavior and speech. I have a friend who grew up in a household in which the n-word was used regularly, without any overt racism attached. Would you excuse her use of it because she was "reared in it"? One more point here: this is not about Lara Spencer. (I barely know who she is, as I long ago stopped watching TV, especially in the morning.) It's about media. The ABC culture is the villain here; she is just one symptom of its toxicity. |
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| re: despicable? | |
| Posted by: Billhaven 08:35 am EDT 08/24/19 | |
| In reply to: re: despicable? - ryhog 12:01 am EDT 08/24/19 | |
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| Dick and little Jane better toughen up. It’s a mean world out there. Granny had to learn how to keep up in this fast and brutal world and so will D&J. Good Morning America was not given a free pass, were they?They were called out on their little cracks and smug laughter. But there are countless instances of fully scripted shows, music, videos and games that are toxic. I’m not excusing this behavior, I’m saying it’s a tiny grain on an epic beach. Outrage shouldn’t be wasted on it. | |
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| re: despicable? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 09:26 am EDT 08/24/19 | |
| In reply to: re: despicable? - Billhaven 08:35 am EDT 08/24/19 | |
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| Sorry, but this outrage meme is pretty lame. In effect, it denigrates those who are not willing to excuse this behavior. And you ARE excusing it when you say it happens all the time. As you called it, there is a teachable moment here. That works in both directions. All I am saying is let's move in the right direction. Media can be a force for good or bad. Train these pathetic TV hosts. Do it on air. | |
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| re: despicable? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:54 pm EDT 08/23/19 | |
| In reply to: re: despicable? - Billhaven 11:42 pm EDT 08/23/19 | |
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| The amount of TV "news" that I watch is virtually zero, so you're right about that -- I'm not used to asinine remarks and commentary such as she made. In my opinion, her apology is a lie because, as I said, if it were HONESTLY fine with her for a boy to take ballet lessons, she wouldn't have used that tone of voice and laughed and made that stupid comment about it in the first place. The only apology that would have sounded sincere to me would be something along the lines of, "I deeply regret that outdated ideas about gender roles are so ingrained in me that I made an ignorant and harmful comment about the prince taking ballet lessons." |
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