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| re: On PASTICHE: is anyone trying to write a new 'Golden Age' musical these days? Would we pay to see one? | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 08:14 pm EDT 08/26/19 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:08 pm EDT 08/26/19 | |
| In reply to: re: On PASTICHE: is anyone trying to write a new 'Golden Age' musical these days? Would we pay to see one? - MattPhilly 04:09 pm EDT 08/26/19 | |
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| Something that we really have very little of now, which Dolly and other shows of its time do have, is the economy of songwriting. Songs used to be ultimately based on a 32-bar model, which could be stretched and modified in various ways, but the form was essentially there to be relied upon, and even moreso, FELT by the listener. Also, a lyric could be very spare and simple, meant to be carried on the music, and with a lot of reading between the lines. But now, it seems composers and lyricists are more interested in epic writing, often, IMO, overstating their case instead of trusting the audience in on a simple melodic/lyric idea. It's what I sometimes call the "One Week" effect (referencing the run-on pop song of that name). The "standard" feel of most golden age songs just isn't there any more. Though occasionally it is. When I first heard "Nothing Is Too Wonderful To Be True" from Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, I immediately thought - aha, a standard!! And I'd further that with 2 things - one, the cabaret version of the song that Sherie Renee Scott does as a bonus on the CD, and also the more overtly comic refrain that Freddy sings (which feels very much like some older standards where one refrain is sincere, the other comic - think "Cherry Pies Ought To Be You" or "I Feel At Home With You"). I also feel that "Haled's Song About Love" (The Band's Visit) is about as "jazz standard" as you can get - and is also, for my money, one of the most beautiful songs (both music and lyrics) written in recent musical theatre history. So it can be done. But I do often wish that lyricists, especially, would take a second listen to a song like "One Hand, One Heart" or "True Love" or "All The Things You Are" or many other standards that express themselves with a real sense of economy and simplicity - and decide that they can in fact write that way too. Not every song has to express every last thing - in fact, oblique writing where things AREN'T all being spelled out are all the more alluring. But the tendency today is to overwrite. |
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| YASSSSSSS. | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 08:35 pm EDT 08/26/19 | |
| In reply to: re: On PASTICHE: is anyone trying to write a new 'Golden Age' musical these days? Would we pay to see one? - Chromolume 08:08 pm EDT 08/26/19 | |
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| That's what I was saying out loud the whole time I was reading your response. SO TRUE. I'll go a bit further. It's not just that the lyrics are overwritten, but more often than not, they're redundant. I hear lyricists filling out the melody with extra words that complete a cliche or restate what's already been said. And they're usually dramatically inert, too. I'm not saying that it guarantees we're stuck in bad theater. (I always credit directors like Des McAnuff who figured out how to stage visual plot lines within TOMMY so it really didn't matter that they were saying the same thing over and over again.) But getting into the gems of the Golden Age, those writers really knew when a moment merited a more writerly approach. I look at something like "Adelaide's Lament," which -- to my ear -- is probably just about the greatest musical theatre lyric ever. Although that song goes on for multiple verses and choruses, it never overstays its welcome, for multiple reasons. One, the lyrics are just so amusing that you want to sink into your chair and just stay there for a while, but two, Adelaide needs that entire song to complete the scene; it's active. She's in the process of figuring things out, and she needs that whole song to put it all together in her mind. To your points, I sooo agree. And I love "Haled's Song About Love" from A BAND'S VISIT. And, in reference to one of my replies below, that little chromatic step in the melody is a blissfull ear-surprise. I trust you know the one I'm referring to. It's really nice. - GMB |
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| Posted before... | |
| Posted by: Quicheo 04:23 pm EDT 08/27/19 | |
| In reply to: YASSSSSSS. - GrumpyMorningBoy 08:35 pm EDT 08/26/19 | |
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| ...but worth a repeat as it is particularly apropos. | |
| Link | A Contemporary Musical Theatre Song |
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| re: YASSSSSSS. | |
| Posted by: JohnPopa 08:41 pm EDT 08/26/19 | |
| In reply to: YASSSSSSS. - GrumpyMorningBoy 08:35 pm EDT 08/26/19 | |
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| Coincidentally, I was listening to "Guys and Dolls" over the weekend and had a similar though listening to "My Time of Day," - I doubt a modern lyricist could lay off and write something that simple. Same with a composer really. Everyone's working way too hard inside songs these days (in the sense that things are trying so hard to be clever and intricate and dazzling.) | |
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| re: YASSSSSSS. | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:46 pm EDT 08/26/19 | |
| In reply to: re: YASSSSSSS. - JohnPopa 08:41 pm EDT 08/26/19 | |
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| And of course musically speaking, "My Time of Day" is actually quite complex - but it flows so well from one idea to the next that you almost don't realize it. | |
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| re: YASSSSSSS. | |
| Posted by: JohnPopa 08:57 pm EDT 08/26/19 | |
| In reply to: re: YASSSSSSS. - Chromolume 08:46 pm EDT 08/26/19 | |
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| Right, simple probably wasn't the right word. I think these days composers and lyrics see density as the best expression of complexity. (But I'll leave the nuts and bolts of that conversation to you musical types.) |
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| re: YASSSSSSS. | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 08:51 pm EDT 08/26/19 | |
| In reply to: re: YASSSSSSS. - Chromolume 08:46 pm EDT 08/26/19 | |
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| Having sat in on auditions once for GUYS & DOLLS, I can say that those tricky intervals in "My Time of Day" have caused many a potential Sky to fall! But Loesser was a genius, and he knew when to match complexity in the music to simplicity in the lyric. And the other way around. And I couldn't agree more about "Michael In The Bathroom." - GMB |
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| re: YASSSSSSS. | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:40 pm EDT 08/26/19 | |
| In reply to: YASSSSSSS. - GrumpyMorningBoy 08:35 pm EDT 08/26/19 | |
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| I'll go a bit further. It's not just that the lyrics are overwritten, but more often than not, they're redundant. I hear lyricists filling out the melody with extra words that complete a cliche or restate what's already been said. Yes. And, four words in response to that - Michael. In. The. Bathroom. (That could have so easily been a 32-bar-ish cute little moment, but that as it is really overstays its welcome in spades. Redundant, tedious, and ultimately a one-joke song that tries way too hard to be more than that.) |
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