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| Brantley offers a (semi-)defense for jukebox musicals | |
| Last Edit: MockingbirdGirl 08:14 am EDT 09/04/19 | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 08:13 am EDT 09/04/19 | |
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| Link | What’s Broadway Got to Do With It? More Pop Musicals |
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| re: Brantley offers a (semi-)defense for jukebox musicals | |
| Posted by: EvFoDr 11:09 am EDT 09/04/19 | |
| In reply to: Brantley offers a (semi-)defense for jukebox musicals - MockingbirdGirl 08:13 am EDT 09/04/19 | |
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| Not much new here. It's a variation on the conversation about adapted musicals vs original musicals, particularly movie adaptations as of late. You can't categorically dismiss adaptations and you can't categorically dismiss jukebox musicals. Some are good, some work. I appreciate that he makes the distinction between jukebox musicals, revues, and bio musicals that the tell the story of the group/artist in question. I am not sure I even think of Moulin Rouge as a jukebox musical. It's just following the template of the movie where pop songs from a variety of sources were always part of the storytelling. | |
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| re: Brantley offers a (semi-)defense for jukebox musicals | |
| Last Edit: WaymanWong 08:11 pm EDT 09/04/19 | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 08:04 pm EDT 09/04/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Brantley offers a (semi-)defense for jukebox musicals - EvFoDr 11:09 am EDT 09/04/19 | |
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| I agree. There are good jukebox musicals and bad ones, just as there are good original musicals and bad ones, or good stage adaptations of movies and bad ones. It all comes down to execution, wit and imagination. The other day, John Simon was quoted as saying: ''Basing an entire show on preexisting numbers is almost like finding a button in the street and having a suit made to go with it. It does not make much sense.'' I'd say it depends on the button and who's making the suit. Arthur Freed wanted a movie musical to feature his songs with Nacio Herb Brown, written for MGM films (1929-39). Betty Comden and Adolph Green were tasked with writing a screenplay to showcase them, and they came up with ''Singin' in the Rain'' (1952). … And in 1949, MGM had bought the rights to a jazz-classical suite (1928) and told Alan Jay Lerner to write a film around it. Lerner added songs by the same composer, George Gershwin, and came up with ''An American in Paris'' (1951). As for ''Moulin Rouge!,'' it's arguably the ultimate jukebox musical. But Baz Luhrmann might've created a new variation. I can't think of another musical that samples from dozens of songs from different artists, sometimes only using a line or two, to create such elaborate mashups or musical ''conversations.'' Most notably, its delightfully playful ''Elephant Love Medley.'' It probably hadn't been done much before because it's a logistical nightmare to wrangle all the rights, and you can't easily do it for a song. |
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| Link | Billboard.com: How Broadway's 'Moulin Rouge!' Got the Rights to 'Torn,' 'Don't Speak' & More Pop Smashes |
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| And don't forget the ur-bio-jukebox musical | |
| Posted by: stevemr 01:31 pm EDT 09/04/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Brantley offers a (semi-)defense for jukebox musicals - EvFoDr 11:09 am EDT 09/04/19 | |
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| Maytime, from 1917, with songs adapted by Sigmund Romberg from those ditties by Franz Schubert. | |
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| Even earlier jukebox-like musicals - centuries earlier | |
| Posted by: musicalsfan 12:38 am EDT 09/05/19 | |
| In reply to: And don't forget the ur-bio-jukebox musical - stevemr 01:31 pm EDT 09/04/19 | |
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| The genre of "jukebox" musicals has related precedents going back even further than has been mentioned so far in this stream. One of the earliest forms of musical theater in this country was "ballad operas", that were performed in the United States even before it was the United States. These ballad operas originally came from England, and the writers generally took parts of familiar popular songs of the day (and some classical pieces), gave them new lyrics, and incorporated them into an original story. The most popular of these was "The Beggar's Opera" in the mid 1700's. Of course, many decades later its basic plot and characters appeared once again with totally different music and lyrics in "The Threepenny Opera" We're so fortunate that over the last couple of centuries, musical theater has developed, advanced and expanded into the incredibly original and varied art form that it is. Though it's true that many contemporary jukebox musicals are of high quality and are very entertaining, I'm saddened and disappointed by the current diminishing quantity, quality and popularity of musicals with original music and lyrics that get produced on Broadway these days. And there have been and are some really good ones out there. Thank goodness for regional theater. |
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| re: Even earlier jukebox-like musicals - centuries earlier | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:33 am EDT 09/05/19 | |
| In reply to: Even earlier jukebox-like musicals - centuries earlier - musicalsfan 12:38 am EDT 09/05/19 | |
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| The most popular of these was "The Beggar's Opera" in the mid 1700's. Of course, many decades later its basic plot and characters appeared once again with totally different music and lyrics in "The Threepenny Opera" Not totally. Peachum's "Morning Anthem" in Threepenny comes directly from The Beggar's Opera. |
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| re: And don't forget the ur-bio-jukebox musical | |
| Posted by: singleticket 04:19 pm EDT 09/04/19 | |
| In reply to: And don't forget the ur-bio-jukebox musical - stevemr 01:31 pm EDT 09/04/19 | |
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| Blossom Time, I think, rather than Maytime. But maybe it should be called a music-box musical? | |
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| Correction. | |
| Posted by: stevemr 04:34 pm EDT 09/04/19 | |
| In reply to: re: And don't forget the ur-bio-jukebox musical - singleticket 04:19 pm EDT 09/04/19 | |
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| You're right. Thanks for the correction. | |
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| re: Brantley offers a (semi-)defense for jukebox musicals | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:16 pm EDT 09/04/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Brantley offers a (semi-)defense for jukebox musicals - EvFoDr 11:09 am EDT 09/04/19 | |
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| "I am not sure I even think of Moulin Rouge as a jukebox musical. It's just following the template of the movie where pop songs from a variety of sources were always part of the storytelling." Well, yes -- and the film MOULIN ROUGE is also definitely a jukebox musical. I would say it deserves that label even more than something like, say, MAMMA MIA! An actual jukebox, of course, has a wide variety of songs by various writers, which is the case with MOULIN ROUGE (both the film and the stage show), whereas in MAMMA MIA! and some of the other "jukebox" musicals, all of the songs are by the same writer or small group of writers. |
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| re: Brantley offers a (semi-)defense for jukebox musicals | |
| Last Edit: singleticket 09:22 am EDT 09/04/19 | |
| Posted by: singleticket 09:12 am EDT 09/04/19 | |
| In reply to: Brantley offers a (semi-)defense for jukebox musicals - MockingbirdGirl 08:13 am EDT 09/04/19 | |
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| Definitely a semi-defense... and more of a self-defense of the critic's role in reviewing jukebox musicals. I saw a great jukebox musical at the Minnelli widescreen festival at Metrograph last week, KISMET, based on the Borodin catalogue. It was complete orientalist kitsch which I found pretty irresistable in the hands of Minnelli and his cast. It got me thinking that most of the deals behind these jukebox musicals are quite unimaginative and mostly reflect the audience that they hope to capture. There are a lot of catalogues out there that could make great musicals but which are not obvious catnip to a contemporary Broadway demographic (and I'm not talking about just classical music) but perhaps it's better to leave them alone. |
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| re: Brantley offers a (semi-)defense for jukebox musicals | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 05:57 pm EDT 09/04/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Brantley offers a (semi-)defense for jukebox musicals - singleticket 09:12 am EDT 09/04/19 | |
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| I'm not sure that on any level I would call Kismet a jukebox musical. Even if we open up the definition to include non-pop musical styles such as classical, there's not really enough Borodin in the score IMO. (A good number of the songs are based on musical themes, but then developed into popular song forms using additional music by Wright and Forrest. For instance, only the A section of "Stranger In Paradise" is Borodin.) | |
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| re: Brantley offers a (semi-)defense for jukebox musicals | |
| Last Edit: singleticket 07:16 pm EDT 09/04/19 | |
| Posted by: singleticket 07:08 pm EDT 09/04/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Brantley offers a (semi-)defense for jukebox musicals - Chromolume 05:57 pm EDT 09/04/19 | |
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| there's not really enough Borodin in the score IMO I'm sure you're right. I don't know the Borodin sources well enough to say. Check this out: Robert Wright and George Forrest had adapted classical music for shows and pop songs before (Grieg for Song of Norway and Rimsky-Korsakov for the film Balalaika), but Borodin was actually their third choice for Kismet. And, fortunately for them, by the time they finished writing, Borodin’s music had come into the public domain so they wouldn’t have to pay royalties. As it turned out, they filed their copyright on Kismet the very day that the copyright on Borodin’s music expired. |
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| Link | Behind the All-Stars: Alexander Borodin’s Polovtsian Dances |
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| re: Brantley offers a (semi-)defense for jukebox musicals | |
| Posted by: downtownlw 12:28 pm EDT 09/04/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Brantley offers a (semi-)defense for jukebox musicals - singleticket 09:12 am EDT 09/04/19 | |
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| I don’t see what the problem is. People forget that there was an era when show tunes were the popular tunes of the day. Recording artists were rushing to record the next hit from Broadway. That’s where some of the best song writers worked. It’s just the other way around now. I love to see a brand new, original musical but if they keep doing shows like Moulin Rouge, I’m there! | |
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| re: Brantley offers a (semi-)defense for jukebox musicals | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:38 pm EDT 09/04/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Brantley offers a (semi-)defense for jukebox musicals - downtownlw 12:28 pm EDT 09/04/19 | |
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| "I don’t see what the problem is. People forget that there was an era when show tunes were the popular tunes of the day. Recording artists were rushing to record the next hit from Broadway. That’s where some of the best song writers worked. It’s just the other way around now." I understand your point, and I don't completely disagree. But of course, there is a fundamental difference between (1) songs that were originally conceived to be part of the storytelling of golden-age musicals and wound up becoming pop hits also, and (2) pop hits that were written as stand-alone songs and are now being shoved into musicals, with plots written around them. (I'm not talking here about the bio-musical sub-genre, which is a different matter.) Some people would argue that this is where the problem lies. |
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| re: Brantley offers a (semi-)defense for jukebox musicals | |
| Posted by: ashleylm 02:16 pm EDT 09/04/19 | |
| In reply to: re: Brantley offers a (semi-)defense for jukebox musicals - Michael_Portantiere 12:38 pm EDT 09/04/19 | |
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| pop hits that were written as stand-alone songs and are now being shoved into musicals, with plots written around them. While we're splitting hairs (fun!) there's also, to my mind, a big difference between writing plots around Abba or Billy Joel's greatest hits (Mamma Mia, Movin' On) or writing plots around any song from anybody at any point in time, so long as it works for the plot (Moulin Rouge). In one case you have to uncomfortably contort your plot/characters to fit, but in the other case you can easily pick useful, appropriate songs--if I remember correctly, Moulin Rouge ranged from Offenbach to Nirvana. |
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