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| Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Posted by: StaunchKarakter 12:11 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Love Sutton Foster, but am wondering if they keys will be changed for her. I can't imagine her singing the soaring soprano of "My White Knight," etc. Is this a range she has that I'm unaware of? And if they are lowering the keys, has this been done before for other belty Marians? | |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 04:52 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - StaunchKarakter 12:11 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| She sang a legit soprano in Grease and The Drowsy Chaperone. | |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 05:09 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - KingSpeed 04:52 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| What role in GREASE requires a legit soprano? | |
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| Sandy | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 01:15 am EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - Michael_Portantiere 05:09 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| In the 1994 revival, they used the song "Since I Don't Have You" which soars up into a legit soprano for the last chorus. It was really amazing. What happened to Susan Wood? | |
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| Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Last Edit: GrumpyMorningBoy 04:21 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 04:18 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - StaunchKarakter 12:11 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| I've heard Ms. Foster sing up there, and she has those notes... I saw her do a reading of a new show waaaaaaaaaayyy back in the day. She has all those soprano notes, sure. But there's no way they're gonna ask her to do that 8 times a week. No freaking way. And honestly, do we really want it? I don't. It is rare the true musical theater soprano whose voice is so lovely that I wanna sink back in my chair and just luxuriate. RARE. Today's sopranos, for the most part, sound too 'operatic' for Golden Age musical theater repertoire, and unless you've got something like PORGY or SWEENEY or WEST SIDE happening, the sound really doesn't work. Let's hang out in alto / mezzo land and just be happy. I think we'll ALL be a lot happier at the end of the day. - GMB, who will happily admit that Barbara Cook was indeed one of those rare sopranos. Rest her gorgeous soul. |
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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 05:19 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - GrumpyMorningBoy 04:18 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| "I've heard Ms. Foster sing up there, and she has those notes...I saw her do a reading of a new show waaaaaaaaaayyy back in the day. She has all those soprano notes, sure. But there's no way they're gonna ask her to do that 8 times a week. No freaking way." Although the tessitura of the role of Marian is fairly high, and it does contain a few isolated notes that are quite high, the role is not that difficult vocally, and singing it eight times a week should not present a problem for anyone who's singing in their natural range. "It is rare the true musical theater soprano whose voice is so lovely that I wanna sink back in my chair and just luxuriate. RARE. Today's sopranos, for the most part, sound too 'operatic' for Golden Age musical theater repertoire, and unless you've got something like PORGY or SWEENEY or WEST SIDE happening, the sound really doesn't work. Let's hang out in alto / mezzo land and just be happy. I think we'll ALL be a lot happier at the end of the day." Oh, I'm sorry -- is this a parody post? |
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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 06:41 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - Michael_Portantiere 05:19 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Although the tessitura of the role of Marian is fairly high, and it does contain a few isolated notes that are quite high It's really not THAT high - I think it's just that we've had less soprano roles in recent years and so it may seem higher comparatively. The (optional!!) Ab at the end of "My White Knight" is the highest note, and that's the one time she sings it. It's interesting to note that in "The Piano Lesson," Mrs. Paroo actually sings higher than Marian, whose tessitura is rather low in this song. "Goodnight My Someone" only goes up to an E. "My White Knight" needs F's and F#'s. The highest pitch in "Will I Ever Tell You" is F#, and "Till There Was You" has F's and one G. But though those notes need to be comfortable and solid, I'm not sure I'd say she "lives" up there all that much - i.e. the tessitura really isn't "fairly high." It's definitely soprano territory, but it's not as high as Amalia or Cunegonde, let alone Laurey, Tuptim, Fiona, Lilli/Kate, or Luisa, to name a few roles in other classic musicals of the era. |
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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 05:34 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - Chromolume 06:41 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Perhaps worth a mention is that Pert Kelton was playing Mrs. Peachum in Threepenny Opera when she was cast in The Music Man. It's possible that some of Mrs. Peachum's music was adjusted for her, and there's a tradition of singing the role down an octave. At least one writer on Threepenny believes that the role was originally sung down an octave from how it appears in the published score (and, of course, "Die Ballade von der Sexuallen Hörigkeit" was not in the score as originally published nor in the opening-night performance in Berlin), but others dispute that. So I don't know if Kelton sang it in the keys and range in which Charlotte Rae sang it. I suppose she might have, even if she perhaps did it in a sort of squawky voice. Rae, btw, was only in the show a few weeks. She is so associated with it, but she was in it very briefly. She was already gone when the cast recording was made, but she's on it. Carole Cook (then known as Mildred Cook) was playing Mrs. Peachum when the recording was made. A wide range of different vocal types played the role during the long Theatre de Lys run(s). |
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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 06:50 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - Chromolume 06:41 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| "The tessitura really isn't 'fairly high.'" You really didn't need to argue with me, as I think it was clear that I was pretty much playing devil's advocate in response to another post. Still, I do think it's accurate to say that the tessitura of the role of Marian is fairly high by musical theater soprano standards. And, as for the other roles you mentioned, I'm not sure you're correct that Amalia or Lilli/Kate are significantly higher than Marian. |
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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 07:37 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 07:36 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - Michael_Portantiere 06:50 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Devil's advocate it is, then, lol. But - Amalia has the (not optional) high B at the end of "Vanilla Ice Cream," and a song like "Where's My Shoe" hangs on more frequent high notes (F/G) than Marian does in general. I've sometimes heard sopranos struggle with the placement of the last floated F# in "Will He Like Me" as well. As for Lilli, "So In Love" as written goes to F#'s, but now the (unfortunate) fashion is to extend that phrase up another whole step to G# (on the "I" of "till I die"), which I despise. There are A's and a possible Bb at the end of Act I, another possible Bb at the end of the show, and the climactic "ready" of "I Am Ashamed" is a G. But I also feel that role is also meant for a voice with more heft and "vocalism" than your typical Marian, given the "diva" leanings of the character(s). |
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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:51 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - Chromolume 07:36 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Whatever. You are generally talking more about isolated high notes than about tessitura. Again, I don't think Amalia or Lilli/Kate have a higher tessitura than Marian, certainly not significantly higher. P.S. Of course. the original Lilli/Kate was Patricia Morison, whom I believe was classified as a mezzo. |
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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 11:05 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 11:04 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - Michael_Portantiere 10:51 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Of course. the original Lilli/Kate was Patricia Morison, whom I believe was classified as a mezzo. ...which correlated with my comment about Kate/Lilli being a heftier role vocally. In operatic terms (and I know they are different from musical theatre classifications) a mezzo does need good command above the staff. (Roles like Amneris and Azucena come to mind immediately - both roles call for solid climactic high A's. Marian doesn't need an A at all, lol.) We can argue over tessituras, but there's probably no point lol. It's not that big of a thing. But I do think that Marian is a less demanding singing role than Lilli. |
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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 07:51 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - Chromolume 11:04 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| We had a discussion like this here a while ago. I mentioned that roles like Margaret and Clara in The Light in the Piazza would not present difficulties, at least in terms of high notes, for any mezzo who could sing the major operatic mezzo roles. And the discussion went on from there. (I seem to think that you disputed at least some of what I was saying.) Some mezzos even sing Verdi's Lady Macbeth with its high D flat. And I think that Idamante in Idomeneo, usually sung by mezzos, goes up to something like a high D. Even some contraltos (not that there many nowadays) would be able to sing most of the famous "Broadway soprano" roles. Marian Anderson and, more recently, Ewa Podles had high Cs at their disposal. And Lili Chookasian, for instance, classified herself as a contralto, but she sang the Verdi Requiem, with its A flat for the mezzo. She also had Amneris in her rep. |
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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:42 am EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - Chromolume 11:04 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| "We can argue over tessituras, but there's probably no point lol. It's not that big of a thing. But I do think that Marian is a less demanding singing role than Lilli." On this point, I certainly agree. |
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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 11:33 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 11:25 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - Chromolume 11:04 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Amneris and Azucena are dramatic mezzo roles in opera. Many of musical theatre's soprano roles are more akin to a lyric mezzo, though mezzos tend to, at least in opera, have the biggest range that's sometimes called upon (Dorabella sometimes sings higher than soprano Fiordiligi in "Cosi Fan Tutte"). Yes, Cunegonde, written as a spoof of jewel songs like Marguerite's in "Faust" requires a real coloratura high soprano to sing "Glitter and Be Gay". But a lyric mezzo in opera can sing Laurey, Marian, and maybe Amalia if they have the Bb -- they are toss-ups as far as musical theater sopranos or mezzos can sing them -- what's required mostly is a nice legit voice without real heavy belting (although Barbara Cook did kind of belt, with her higher soprano placement "Where's My Shoe" in a healthy manner for her to sustain her doing it 8x a week). Sutton Foster is mainly known more for her belting, though she did have a very nice high note at the end of "The Show-Off" in "Drowsy Chaperone" which I believe she started like a siren ascent (like Julie Andrews in the movie "Victor/Victoria" at the end of "Le Jazz Hot", starting low and ascending like a fire siren to the top). Whether Ms. Foster's voice is comfortable in the relatively higher tessistura of a musical theater soprano (or a opera lyric mezzo who doesn't belt) remains to be seen. As Meredith Willson wrote it, Marian is a really well-written and gracious role for the voice. There are lots of ladies who can do it, and I've never really seen a Marian in performance who was less than good. Soubrettes in opera, which also in a way correspond to musical theater sopranos, tend to do a lot of singing in the middle range, like Susanna in "The Marriage of Figaro" though need to have high notes when required as well. There are some ladies who can move between soubrettes and lyric mezzo roles, depending on where the role lies, which are similar to some of these musical theater roles. | |
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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Posted by: winters 05:48 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - Michael_Portantiere 05:19 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Thanks for writing this....I thought that this was an April Fool's Day joke come early.... | |
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| Related question: Can Hugh Jackman sing the score? | |
| Posted by: NoPeopleLike 12:54 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - StaunchKarakter 12:11 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Or will we get his usual shouting of the songs? | |
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| re: Related question: Can Hugh Jackman sing the score? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 01:17 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 01:07 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: Related question: Can Hugh Jackman sing the score? - NoPeopleLike 12:54 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Preston had musicality and rhythm and pizzazz up the wazoo, especially shocking as he hadn't really had any prior musical productions or films on his resume, and he had a basically nice singing voice with excellent diction. (Yes, he overdoes the end of "Movies were Movies were MOOOOOOOOooooVIIEEEEES" in "Mack and Mabel.") But otherwise, he gives the songs in his shows their due. Jackman will be fine, as this is an easier score to sing certainly than "Les Miz" (!) where his rather unpleasant blend of nasality and throatiness really couldn't be overlooked by looking at him being charming, whereas Harold Hill, like his Peter Allen, you probably can. I wouldn't put it past him if he tries to do that one-person "Rock Island" thing as an encore at the end of the show, though it's not as good as he thinks it is. |
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| re: Related question: Can Hugh Jackman sing the score? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 12:56 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: Related question: Can Hugh Jackman sing the score? - NoPeopleLike 12:54 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| I'm not sure where you're drawing this idea from that he shouts his songs... but if Robert Preston, a man of very limited singing ability, can sing the score then Jackman can handle it. To say nothing of Matthew Broderick... Whether he has the ideal voice or mix of acting performance and vocal performance for this specific score and character, I don't know yet. |
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| re: Related question: Can Hugh Jackman sing the score? | |
| Posted by: Pokernight 12:58 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Related question: Can Hugh Jackman sing the score? - Chazwaza 12:56 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| If he could sing Curly in Oklahoma, I think he can manage this. | |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 12:26 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - StaunchKarakter 12:11 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| The insipid folks at ABC lowered the keys for Kristin Chenoweth (!) when she played Marian in that horrible Matthew Broderick adaptation some years ago. Apparently the powers that be thought people's ears might be too sensitive to hear a soprano's high notes as written. Sutton had a good high note at the end of "The Show-off" in "Drowsy Chaperone", but her voice doesn't appear to live in (or be most comfortable in) that tessitura. I was thinking most likely they'd lower the keys as well. | |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Posted by: hanon 11:54 am EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - PlayWiz 12:26 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| The “as written” part of the question is weird to me. Meredith Willson didn’t write the songs in a specific key, those keys were adjusted for Barbara Cook. If Sutton had played the role originally, the songs would have been set in her keys. | |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 03:41 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - hanon 11:54 am EST 02/13/20 | |
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| "The 'as written' part of the question is weird to me. Meredith Willson didn’t write the songs in a specific key, those keys were adjusted for Barbara Cook. If Sutton had played the role originally, the songs would have been set in her keys." You have a good point, but still, I think it's common to use the phrase "as written" in referring to the way a song is written in the show's vocal score, in terms of both the arrangement and the key. Also, unless Willson or Cook were ever quoted on this, do we have any way of knowing whether he wrote Marian's songs in those specific keys because that's where he wanted them? I would think, for example, that there isn't much latitude regarding the key for "Lida Rose/Will I Ever Tell You," because Marian needs to sing it in counterpoint with the barbershop quartet. Do we know how early in the creative process was Cook cast? |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 04:08 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 04:02 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - Michael_Portantiere 03:41 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
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| but still, I think it's common to use the phrase "as written" in referring to the way a song is written in the show's vocal score, in terms of both the arrangement and the key. The published or leased vocal score is usually the standard by default, because that's what's available. However, vocal scores may often be the product of changes made on tour, etc - they don't always reflect the keys sung by the original cast. Gypsy is a good example - the score does not use Merman's keys. (I didn't really thoroughly understand this process until reading the Suskin orchestration book, but he made it clear.) I don't know the evolution of the score vs. casting in Music Man, but "Lida Rose" could have easily been arranged/voiced differently to work in another key, so that may not actually be an issue with "Will I Ever Tell You." We're just so used to hearing the original cast key that it would seem odd to conceive of a different arrangement. I understand that Sondheim first heard Fosca in his head as a soprano, and began writing with that in mind. Then he heard Donna Murphy, and everything changed. ;-) And yes, though most of the time I support transposing when necessary. sometimes the results are unfortunately awkward. The original version of "Will-A-Mania" in The Will Rogers Follies is in a bright D major/B minor (as recorded on the OBCR), but the available rental version takes it down a major third to Bb major/G minor - I am thinking this was done when Marla Maples took over the role, and then that key was also used on tour. Not only does the key not sound as bright, but the orchestrations and choral voicings (including the quartet) were drastically changed to work better in the new key. I can't tell you how much I hate the way it sounds. (Even the intro to the song was awkwardly changed because the clarinets can't go as low as would be necessary - and it always sounds weird to me.) When I did the show back in 2003 I took on the burden of transposing the song back up - all parts by hand - just because I hated the new key so much. I'll step off my soapbox now, lol. |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 05:20 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - Chromolume 04:02 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
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| I think that the published and licensed Gypsy keys for Rose's songs represent what Merman sang starting a few months into the run, after a blood vessel in her throat hemorrhaged during a performance and she had to miss seven performances. I think I've been told that the keys in the published and licensed materials are generally a half-step lower than what is heard on the cast recording except for "Some People," which is a full step lower. If that's true, it suggests at least the possibility that "Some People" was lowered a second time. Of course, we've discussed here many times the fact that published and licensed materials often reflect changes made during a run or during a post-Broadway tour rather than what was performed on opening night. On June 10, 1957, it was mentioned in the Times that Barbara Cook was under serious consideration to play Marian, at which time the producers were waiting to hear back from an offer made to Andy Griffith to play Harold Hill. I would think that even if keys for Marian's songs (and the songs in general) were not definitively decided till after the casting was done or not even till rehearsals, it was expected that Marian's songs would be in Broadway-soprano keys. Of course, some of the score was trunk material, and the first recording of what was then called "Till I Met You" (linked) was in a lower key. But I feel pretty confident that whoever was cast as Marian was going to be a soprano. In musical-theatre terms, the character is a soprano Having said that about a character being a "soprano character," it's interesting that Dolores Grey was an early possibility for Eliza Doolittle, but that was several years before My Fair Lady finally happened. Also, Ethel Merman was offered Sarah Brown, but again that was in a very early projected version of the show that was probably closer to the source material. It's not all that hard to imagine Merman as the Sarah Brown of "The Idyll of Miss Sarah Brown." |
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| Link | Eileen Wilson: Till I Met You |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 05:03 pm EST 02/14/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - AlanScott 05:20 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
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| "I think I've been told that the keys in the published and licensed materials are generally a half-step lower than what is heard on the cast recording except for "Some People," which is a full step lower. If that's true, it suggests at least the possibility that 'Some People' was lowered a second time." I have no idea about that, but of course, the orchestration of "Some People" heard on the cast album is, for some strange reason, completely different (and, in my opinion, far inferior) to the orchestration as heard in the theater and as published, as is also the case with some of the other songs on the GYPSY album. So I wouldn't be surprised if the keys are different as well. |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 05:28 pm EST 02/14/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - Michael_Portantiere 05:03 pm EST 02/14/20 | |
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| I would have to go back and look at "Some People" for specifics, but indeed, this kind of thing happens. Often, orchestrations get simplified a bit for tours (smaller numbers, but also eliminating some wind doublings and other changes that were thought would be more practical outside of the Broadway context), and these versions are then the ones that get licensed. Sometimes the score reflects those changes, sometimes not. Keys usually aren't changed unless the replacement/touring singers need them to be, but I suppose in some cases keys might also be rethought when the show is ready to be licensed. Occasionally, rental editions of scores come with a few key options for certain songs. |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 04:54 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - PlayWiz 12:26 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| I loved the belt section of My White Knight in the TV version. Thrilling. Til the others ride by! | |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Last Edit: JereNYC 12:49 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 12:42 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - PlayWiz 12:26 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| There was a good deal of discussion about this here when Foster's casting was announced. Some made the point that, just because we haven't heard this kind of singing as yet from Foster doesn't mean that she can't do it. Others made the assumption that keys would be lowered for her because, if she had that kind of voice in her, surely we'd have heard it by now, given that Foster has been a Broadway star for nearly 20 years at this point. The point was made that, if keys are being lowered specifically for Foster, that's kind of a shame given that casting her was unnecessary since the production will likely sell out completely on Jackman's name alone. And, since we know that to be the case, why not cast a lesser known or unknown actress who can sing the role and make her a star. Also it was pointed out that Marian's music is unique in the show for a reason and lowering the keys works against that dramatically and harms the character and the storytelling. But here's the thing...nobody here knows anything for sure and those that do know, likely the producers, the music staff of the production, and Foster herself aren't talking. If the keys are lowered, I will be curious to see if that is addressed by anyone in any way or if it will just be ignored. I was reminded this week of the 2000 revival by Rebecca Luker's sad health news. Whatever faults that production had, and it had many, Luker was in glorious voice and it was worth seeing just to hear her do the big numbers with her soaring soprano. |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Last Edit: KingSpeed 04:59 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 04:58 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - JereNYC 12:42 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Luker was awesome. Most thought Audra couldn’t sing like Billie Holiday. Power balance would be too far off with an unknown going up against Jackman. A star is necessary. | |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 12:06 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - KingSpeed 04:58 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| You mean like Robert Preston and Barbara Cook? ;) I doubt anyone was complaining that that power balance was off. |
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| Barbara Cook was already a Broadway star | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 06:06 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - JereNYC 12:06 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
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| And Robert Preston wasn't a star on the level of Hugh Jackman. | |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 06:00 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - JereNYC 12:06 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
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| From other shows, I'd offer Rex Harrison and Julie Andrews as a good example. Harrison was a much bigger star in 1956 than Preston was in 1957, and although Andrews had made a splash in The Boy Friend, she was not as established or known here as Barbara Cook, and she certainly didn't have Cook's level of experience acting in musicals. Of course, we know that Harrison was unhappy with Andrews early in rehearsals, but all worked out well. Another example would be Gertrude Lawrence and Yul Brynner. |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 06:08 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - AlanScott 06:00 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
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| I was actually considering My Fair Lady when I made my post but Rex Harrison wasn't a movie star on the level of Hugh Jackman. | |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 06:31 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - KingSpeed 06:08 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
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| I agree that he was not a movie star on the level of Jackman, but he had starred in several Hollywood movies. That stopped (except for The Four Poster, a somewhat special case in a couple of ways) after the Carole Landis scandal. The scandal was certainly at least part of the reason why Unfaithfully Yours was a flop despite getting generally favorable reviews, with raves for Harrison. But Harrison continued as a theatre star and he was definitely a draw on Broadway and London in a way that Preston wasn't before The Music Man and never had been in Hollywood. Anyway, I think Osnes, say, is a big enough name and experienced enough performer to have been cast as Marian here, but I would think that part of the reason for the casting of Foster is that she's 10 years older than Osnes. |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 08:32 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - AlanScott 06:31 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
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| I think one of their selling points is that all the leads have won Tonys. | |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 08:39 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - KingSpeed 08:32 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
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| Yes, I forgot about the selling point that six cast members have won Tonys. Although I doubt that the presence of any of those people is going to make a notable difference to ticket sales. | |
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| Luker | |
| Posted by: StaunchKarakter 12:54 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - JereNYC 12:42 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Thanks for recapping all this. Not sure why I missed the discussion when she was first announced. Re Rebecca Luker - oh yes! When I saw that production I had only seen the original film and didn't know "My White Knight" even existed. I'll never forget the thrilling feeling in my chest as she knocked that song outta the park in front of the set of her house. Chills when she sang that final "til I die!" |
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| re: Luker | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 02:31 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: Luker - StaunchKarakter 12:54 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Interestingly, the first section of "My White Knight" was lowered considerably for that Broadway revival of THE MUSIC MAN with the great Rebecca Luker -- obviously NOT because she couldn't sing it in the original key, but apparently under the theory that the final section of the song, which I believe was sung in the original key (or if not, very close to it), would be more effective if it was built up to in that way. Indeed, Luker's "till I die" was thrilling. | |
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| i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 12:49 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 12:45 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - JereNYC 12:42 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| For the exact point you made. Not to mention that not only do I think Sutton can't sing this role as written, I think she is miscast for it. But putting that aside, as it is not everyone's opinion, but the real point is that it's VERY rare for a broadway show to be a sure-fire hit on the name of one lead actor alone, and this was a chance to discover and/or enormously propel the career of someone who isn't a name and hasn't had a star career at all let alone for almost 20 years. And whether it meant casting an unknown or a stalwart broadway actress, either way I'd love to hear the role sung as written. |
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| re: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 05:02 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion - Chazwaza 12:45 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Unknown actors rarely become stars going up against a star. There’s a power imbalance when that happens and the star sucks all the energy out of the pairing. | |
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| UH.....Kelly O'Hara anyone? nm | |
| Posted by: Genealley 02:04 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion - Chazwaza 12:45 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| nm | |
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| re: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion | |
| Posted by: broadwaybacker 01:39 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion - Chazwaza 12:45 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Not than she's either an unknown (at least in our world) or a potential rising star, but I once asked Laura Osnes what role, of any in the history of Broadway musical theater, she'd most like to play. Her answer was "Marion". | |
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| re: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion | |
| Posted by: winters 06:56 am EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion - broadwaybacker 01:39 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Given that Foster is talented and could surprise my limited imagination of her in the role (Sorry. I am not the biggest fan. I find her ‘the same’ in most of the roles she plays, including television.)... I would much rather see Osnes as Marion. Jackman, also a good pick, will sell the tickets....Osnes will sing it...beautifully. | |
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| re: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:13 am EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion - winters 06:56 am EST 02/13/20 | |
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| Is the character now a librarion? ;-) | |
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| re: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion | |
| Posted by: Ann 09:19 am EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion - Chromolume 09:13 am EST 02/13/20 | |
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| The character is now based on John Wayne. Go. | |
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| re: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 04:11 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 04:04 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion - Ann 09:19 am EST 02/13/20 | |
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| I'm imagining something about a Wells Fargo stagecoach...but maybe someone else (Laura? GrumpyMorningBoy?) should take the reins from here...;-) However, I think if she's Marion, then he has to be Harald. ;-) |
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| re: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 04:28 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion - Chromolume 04:04 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
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| I posted this earlier, but it didn't appear for some reason: I've always found it interesting that the screenplay for the film of THE MUSIC MAN was written by Marion Hargrove, whom I had always assumed was a woman until I found out otherwise quite recently. But I believe some women named Marion do spell it that way, rather than the more common Marian. |
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| re: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 05:56 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion - Michael_Portantiere 04:28 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
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| Marion Davies spelled it that away. She had a substantial career on Broadway over a hundred years ago. | |
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| re: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 04:36 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion - Michael_Portantiere 04:28 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
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| I do think it can be spelled both ways for women. But it's clear that Ms. Paroo uses the "a" version. :-) | |
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| re: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion | |
| Posted by: Ann 04:46 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion - Chromolume 04:36 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
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| Otherwise, she'd be a librarion. | |
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| re: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 05:22 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion - Ann 04:46 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
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| Didn't I already say that, lol? ;-) | |
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| Gender-flipped Music Man! | |
| Posted by: Ann 01:52 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: i do REALLY wish they'd have cast an unknown or barely broken rising star as Marion - broadwaybacker 01:39 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| It's the thing. | |
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| re: Gender-flipped Music Man! | |
| Posted by: Pokernight 05:11 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: Gender-flipped Music Man! - Ann 01:52 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| On an episode of WILL AND GRACE, Grace's mom, a star of her local community theater, was in rehearsal for "The Music Woman." God, I miss Debbie Reynolds. | |
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