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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 05:19 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - GrumpyMorningBoy 04:18 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| "I've heard Ms. Foster sing up there, and she has those notes...I saw her do a reading of a new show waaaaaaaaaayyy back in the day. She has all those soprano notes, sure. But there's no way they're gonna ask her to do that 8 times a week. No freaking way." Although the tessitura of the role of Marian is fairly high, and it does contain a few isolated notes that are quite high, the role is not that difficult vocally, and singing it eight times a week should not present a problem for anyone who's singing in their natural range. "It is rare the true musical theater soprano whose voice is so lovely that I wanna sink back in my chair and just luxuriate. RARE. Today's sopranos, for the most part, sound too 'operatic' for Golden Age musical theater repertoire, and unless you've got something like PORGY or SWEENEY or WEST SIDE happening, the sound really doesn't work. Let's hang out in alto / mezzo land and just be happy. I think we'll ALL be a lot happier at the end of the day." Oh, I'm sorry -- is this a parody post? |
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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 06:41 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - Michael_Portantiere 05:19 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Although the tessitura of the role of Marian is fairly high, and it does contain a few isolated notes that are quite high It's really not THAT high - I think it's just that we've had less soprano roles in recent years and so it may seem higher comparatively. The (optional!!) Ab at the end of "My White Knight" is the highest note, and that's the one time she sings it. It's interesting to note that in "The Piano Lesson," Mrs. Paroo actually sings higher than Marian, whose tessitura is rather low in this song. "Goodnight My Someone" only goes up to an E. "My White Knight" needs F's and F#'s. The highest pitch in "Will I Ever Tell You" is F#, and "Till There Was You" has F's and one G. But though those notes need to be comfortable and solid, I'm not sure I'd say she "lives" up there all that much - i.e. the tessitura really isn't "fairly high." It's definitely soprano territory, but it's not as high as Amalia or Cunegonde, let alone Laurey, Tuptim, Fiona, Lilli/Kate, or Luisa, to name a few roles in other classic musicals of the era. |
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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 05:34 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - Chromolume 06:41 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Perhaps worth a mention is that Pert Kelton was playing Mrs. Peachum in Threepenny Opera when she was cast in The Music Man. It's possible that some of Mrs. Peachum's music was adjusted for her, and there's a tradition of singing the role down an octave. At least one writer on Threepenny believes that the role was originally sung down an octave from how it appears in the published score (and, of course, "Die Ballade von der Sexuallen Hörigkeit" was not in the score as originally published nor in the opening-night performance in Berlin), but others dispute that. So I don't know if Kelton sang it in the keys and range in which Charlotte Rae sang it. I suppose she might have, even if she perhaps did it in a sort of squawky voice. Rae, btw, was only in the show a few weeks. She is so associated with it, but she was in it very briefly. She was already gone when the cast recording was made, but she's on it. Carole Cook (then known as Mildred Cook) was playing Mrs. Peachum when the recording was made. A wide range of different vocal types played the role during the long Theatre de Lys run(s). |
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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 06:50 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - Chromolume 06:41 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| "The tessitura really isn't 'fairly high.'" You really didn't need to argue with me, as I think it was clear that I was pretty much playing devil's advocate in response to another post. Still, I do think it's accurate to say that the tessitura of the role of Marian is fairly high by musical theater soprano standards. And, as for the other roles you mentioned, I'm not sure you're correct that Amalia or Lilli/Kate are significantly higher than Marian. |
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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 07:37 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 07:36 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - Michael_Portantiere 06:50 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Devil's advocate it is, then, lol. But - Amalia has the (not optional) high B at the end of "Vanilla Ice Cream," and a song like "Where's My Shoe" hangs on more frequent high notes (F/G) than Marian does in general. I've sometimes heard sopranos struggle with the placement of the last floated F# in "Will He Like Me" as well. As for Lilli, "So In Love" as written goes to F#'s, but now the (unfortunate) fashion is to extend that phrase up another whole step to G# (on the "I" of "till I die"), which I despise. There are A's and a possible Bb at the end of Act I, another possible Bb at the end of the show, and the climactic "ready" of "I Am Ashamed" is a G. But I also feel that role is also meant for a voice with more heft and "vocalism" than your typical Marian, given the "diva" leanings of the character(s). |
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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:51 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - Chromolume 07:36 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Whatever. You are generally talking more about isolated high notes than about tessitura. Again, I don't think Amalia or Lilli/Kate have a higher tessitura than Marian, certainly not significantly higher. P.S. Of course. the original Lilli/Kate was Patricia Morison, whom I believe was classified as a mezzo. |
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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 11:05 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 11:04 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - Michael_Portantiere 10:51 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Of course. the original Lilli/Kate was Patricia Morison, whom I believe was classified as a mezzo. ...which correlated with my comment about Kate/Lilli being a heftier role vocally. In operatic terms (and I know they are different from musical theatre classifications) a mezzo does need good command above the staff. (Roles like Amneris and Azucena come to mind immediately - both roles call for solid climactic high A's. Marian doesn't need an A at all, lol.) We can argue over tessituras, but there's probably no point lol. It's not that big of a thing. But I do think that Marian is a less demanding singing role than Lilli. |
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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 07:51 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - Chromolume 11:04 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| We had a discussion like this here a while ago. I mentioned that roles like Margaret and Clara in The Light in the Piazza would not present difficulties, at least in terms of high notes, for any mezzo who could sing the major operatic mezzo roles. And the discussion went on from there. (I seem to think that you disputed at least some of what I was saying.) Some mezzos even sing Verdi's Lady Macbeth with its high D flat. And I think that Idamante in Idomeneo, usually sung by mezzos, goes up to something like a high D. Even some contraltos (not that there many nowadays) would be able to sing most of the famous "Broadway soprano" roles. Marian Anderson and, more recently, Ewa Podles had high Cs at their disposal. And Lili Chookasian, for instance, classified herself as a contralto, but she sang the Verdi Requiem, with its A flat for the mezzo. She also had Amneris in her rep. |
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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:42 am EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - Chromolume 11:04 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| "We can argue over tessituras, but there's probably no point lol. It's not that big of a thing. But I do think that Marian is a less demanding singing role than Lilli." On this point, I certainly agree. |
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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 11:33 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 11:25 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - Chromolume 11:04 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Amneris and Azucena are dramatic mezzo roles in opera. Many of musical theatre's soprano roles are more akin to a lyric mezzo, though mezzos tend to, at least in opera, have the biggest range that's sometimes called upon (Dorabella sometimes sings higher than soprano Fiordiligi in "Cosi Fan Tutte"). Yes, Cunegonde, written as a spoof of jewel songs like Marguerite's in "Faust" requires a real coloratura high soprano to sing "Glitter and Be Gay". But a lyric mezzo in opera can sing Laurey, Marian, and maybe Amalia if they have the Bb -- they are toss-ups as far as musical theater sopranos or mezzos can sing them -- what's required mostly is a nice legit voice without real heavy belting (although Barbara Cook did kind of belt, with her higher soprano placement "Where's My Shoe" in a healthy manner for her to sustain her doing it 8x a week). Sutton Foster is mainly known more for her belting, though she did have a very nice high note at the end of "The Show-Off" in "Drowsy Chaperone" which I believe she started like a siren ascent (like Julie Andrews in the movie "Victor/Victoria" at the end of "Le Jazz Hot", starting low and ascending like a fire siren to the top). Whether Ms. Foster's voice is comfortable in the relatively higher tessistura of a musical theater soprano (or a opera lyric mezzo who doesn't belt) remains to be seen. As Meredith Willson wrote it, Marian is a really well-written and gracious role for the voice. There are lots of ladies who can do it, and I've never really seen a Marian in performance who was less than good. Soubrettes in opera, which also in a way correspond to musical theater sopranos, tend to do a lot of singing in the middle range, like Susanna in "The Marriage of Figaro" though need to have high notes when required as well. There are some ladies who can move between soubrettes and lyric mezzo roles, depending on where the role lies, which are similar to some of these musical theater roles. | |
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| re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. | |
| Posted by: winters 05:48 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Of COURSE they will change the keys... but Sutton has that range. - Michael_Portantiere 05:19 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| Thanks for writing this....I thought that this was an April Fool's Day joke come early.... | |
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