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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Posted by: hanon 11:54 am EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - PlayWiz 12:26 pm EST 02/12/20 | |
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| The “as written” part of the question is weird to me. Meredith Willson didn’t write the songs in a specific key, those keys were adjusted for Barbara Cook. If Sutton had played the role originally, the songs would have been set in her keys. | |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 03:41 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - hanon 11:54 am EST 02/13/20 | |
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| "The 'as written' part of the question is weird to me. Meredith Willson didn’t write the songs in a specific key, those keys were adjusted for Barbara Cook. If Sutton had played the role originally, the songs would have been set in her keys." You have a good point, but still, I think it's common to use the phrase "as written" in referring to the way a song is written in the show's vocal score, in terms of both the arrangement and the key. Also, unless Willson or Cook were ever quoted on this, do we have any way of knowing whether he wrote Marian's songs in those specific keys because that's where he wanted them? I would think, for example, that there isn't much latitude regarding the key for "Lida Rose/Will I Ever Tell You," because Marian needs to sing it in counterpoint with the barbershop quartet. Do we know how early in the creative process was Cook cast? |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 04:08 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 04:02 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - Michael_Portantiere 03:41 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
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| but still, I think it's common to use the phrase "as written" in referring to the way a song is written in the show's vocal score, in terms of both the arrangement and the key. The published or leased vocal score is usually the standard by default, because that's what's available. However, vocal scores may often be the product of changes made on tour, etc - they don't always reflect the keys sung by the original cast. Gypsy is a good example - the score does not use Merman's keys. (I didn't really thoroughly understand this process until reading the Suskin orchestration book, but he made it clear.) I don't know the evolution of the score vs. casting in Music Man, but "Lida Rose" could have easily been arranged/voiced differently to work in another key, so that may not actually be an issue with "Will I Ever Tell You." We're just so used to hearing the original cast key that it would seem odd to conceive of a different arrangement. I understand that Sondheim first heard Fosca in his head as a soprano, and began writing with that in mind. Then he heard Donna Murphy, and everything changed. ;-) And yes, though most of the time I support transposing when necessary. sometimes the results are unfortunately awkward. The original version of "Will-A-Mania" in The Will Rogers Follies is in a bright D major/B minor (as recorded on the OBCR), but the available rental version takes it down a major third to Bb major/G minor - I am thinking this was done when Marla Maples took over the role, and then that key was also used on tour. Not only does the key not sound as bright, but the orchestrations and choral voicings (including the quartet) were drastically changed to work better in the new key. I can't tell you how much I hate the way it sounds. (Even the intro to the song was awkwardly changed because the clarinets can't go as low as would be necessary - and it always sounds weird to me.) When I did the show back in 2003 I took on the burden of transposing the song back up - all parts by hand - just because I hated the new key so much. I'll step off my soapbox now, lol. |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 05:20 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - Chromolume 04:02 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
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| I think that the published and licensed Gypsy keys for Rose's songs represent what Merman sang starting a few months into the run, after a blood vessel in her throat hemorrhaged during a performance and she had to miss seven performances. I think I've been told that the keys in the published and licensed materials are generally a half-step lower than what is heard on the cast recording except for "Some People," which is a full step lower. If that's true, it suggests at least the possibility that "Some People" was lowered a second time. Of course, we've discussed here many times the fact that published and licensed materials often reflect changes made during a run or during a post-Broadway tour rather than what was performed on opening night. On June 10, 1957, it was mentioned in the Times that Barbara Cook was under serious consideration to play Marian, at which time the producers were waiting to hear back from an offer made to Andy Griffith to play Harold Hill. I would think that even if keys for Marian's songs (and the songs in general) were not definitively decided till after the casting was done or not even till rehearsals, it was expected that Marian's songs would be in Broadway-soprano keys. Of course, some of the score was trunk material, and the first recording of what was then called "Till I Met You" (linked) was in a lower key. But I feel pretty confident that whoever was cast as Marian was going to be a soprano. In musical-theatre terms, the character is a soprano Having said that about a character being a "soprano character," it's interesting that Dolores Grey was an early possibility for Eliza Doolittle, but that was several years before My Fair Lady finally happened. Also, Ethel Merman was offered Sarah Brown, but again that was in a very early projected version of the show that was probably closer to the source material. It's not all that hard to imagine Merman as the Sarah Brown of "The Idyll of Miss Sarah Brown." |
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| Link | Eileen Wilson: Till I Met You |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 05:03 pm EST 02/14/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - AlanScott 05:20 pm EST 02/13/20 | |
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| "I think I've been told that the keys in the published and licensed materials are generally a half-step lower than what is heard on the cast recording except for "Some People," which is a full step lower. If that's true, it suggests at least the possibility that 'Some People' was lowered a second time." I have no idea about that, but of course, the orchestration of "Some People" heard on the cast album is, for some strange reason, completely different (and, in my opinion, far inferior) to the orchestration as heard in the theater and as published, as is also the case with some of the other songs on the GYPSY album. So I wouldn't be surprised if the keys are different as well. |
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| re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 05:28 pm EST 02/14/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Can SUTTON sing THE MUSIC MAN as written? - Michael_Portantiere 05:03 pm EST 02/14/20 | |
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| I would have to go back and look at "Some People" for specifics, but indeed, this kind of thing happens. Often, orchestrations get simplified a bit for tours (smaller numbers, but also eliminating some wind doublings and other changes that were thought would be more practical outside of the Broadway context), and these versions are then the ones that get licensed. Sometimes the score reflects those changes, sometimes not. Keys usually aren't changed unless the replacement/touring singers need them to be, but I suppose in some cases keys might also be rethought when the show is ready to be licensed. Occasionally, rental editions of scores come with a few key options for certain songs. |
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