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| re: Sounds Dreadful | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 07:56 pm EDT 04/16/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Sounds Dreadful - Michael_Portantiere 05:37 pm EDT 04/16/20 | |
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| We can quibble over frequency and the word "common", but we had two celebrated and award-winning all-male Shakespeare plays in rep on Broadway in the past decade. And yes, there is an element of this which is exploring the tradition of Shakespeare's time, but since they aren't casting teenage boys as the women, it's very much a modern practice, just as with all-female productions. Arguably, the artistic impulse to explore those plays with cross-gendered casting (in either direction), is akin to this casting of "1776": it gives modern-day audiences an opportunity to reconsider classic stories in a new way. So you may not have been considering plays like Shakespeare, but the comparison strikes me as apt. |
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| re: Sounds Dreadful | |
| Posted by: TheOtherOne 09:50 pm EDT 04/16/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Sounds Dreadful - Singapore/Fling 07:56 pm EDT 04/16/20 | |
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| But 1776 is a musical, with songs written for male voices. Shakespeare, due to the dictates of his time, wrote female roles for male actors, yes, but did the actors ever need to sing songs in an alto’s or soprano’s keys? Perhaps dreadful is too strong a term. Disappointing is not. |
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| re: Sounds Dreadful | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 12:20 pm EDT 04/17/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Sounds Dreadful - TheOtherOne 09:50 pm EDT 04/16/20 | |
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| Keys get changed all the time in musicals. It's a fact. So-called "original scores" are the product of placing songs in keys that work for those particular performers. It's not quite the same thing we think of as in classical music, where a concerto in G is always a concerto in G, lol. Obviously changing keys takes time and money to produce new materials, so it's avoided when it can be avoided. But in a case like this, where the cross-gender casting is the point of the production, I'm sure it's going to be done extensively. And it will be fine. Our ear only gets used to so-called "original keys" because we play the albums over and over again. ;-) |
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| re: Sounds Dreadful | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 01:00 pm EDT 04/17/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Sounds Dreadful - Chromolume 12:20 pm EDT 04/17/20 | |
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| "Keys get changed all the time in musicals. It's a fact. So-called "original scores" are the product of placing songs in keys that work for those particular performers. It's not quite the same thing we think of as in classical music, where a concerto in G is always a concerto in G, lol. Obviously changing keys takes time and money to produce new materials, so it's avoided when it can be avoided. But in a case like this, where the cross-gender casting is the point of the production, I'm sure it's going to be done extensively. And it will be fine. Our ear only gets used to so-called "original keys" because we play the albums over and over again. ;-) " That's all very true, but I would also say: It depends. For example, in PIPPIN, the Leading Player sings "Magic to Do" with the chorus, and he sings "On the Right Track" with Pippin. Because the role was originally conceived for a male, the choral parts were written with a mind toward those keys, and so was the other male vocal part in the other song. When the keys are changed drastically, as for an alto belt, sometimes it just doesn't sound right to me, and I don't think it's just because I'm used to the original keys. |
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| re: Sounds Dreadful | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 04:25 pm EDT 04/17/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Sounds Dreadful - Michael_Portantiere 01:00 pm EDT 04/17/20 | |
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| Yes - sometimes key changes do affect choral arrangements and orchestrations, and yes, I would agree that the result isn't always satisfying (though I'm personally ok with the Pippin changes). One of my own examples would be the changes made to the rental version of "Will-A-Mania" from The Will Rogers Follies, a 3rd lower than the original (recorded) key, with all sorts of adjustments made to the choral parts and orchestrations, and it just doesn't work as well IMO. | |
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| re: Sounds Dreadful | |
| Last Edit: MockingbirdGirl 10:00 pm EDT 04/16/20 | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 09:58 pm EDT 04/16/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Sounds Dreadful - TheOtherOne 09:50 pm EDT 04/16/20 | |
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| Rosalie Craig & Katrina Lenk in Company? Patina Miller in Pippin? Whoopi in Forum? Every edition of BC/EFA's "Broadway Backwards"? Again, not an insurmountable barrier. I loved the last "traditional" 1776 I saw (with Brent Spiner). I loved the modern-dress 1776 at Encores. I'm willing to give this a go. Because a solidly-written show can always withstand a bit of experimentation. |
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| re: Sounds Dreadful | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:09 am EDT 04/17/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Sounds Dreadful - MockingbirdGirl 09:58 pm EDT 04/16/20 | |
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| "Patina Miller in Pippin?" I strongly disliked the way those songs sounded in alto belt keys, and I don't think it's just because I was so used to them in the original key. In the context of the show, they just didn't sound right in those keys. Just because something was done doesn't mean it was successful. |
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| 1776 -- Female Cast | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 10:54 pm EDT 04/16/20 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 10:52 pm EDT 04/16/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Sounds Dreadful - MockingbirdGirl 09:58 pm EDT 04/16/20 | |
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| Craig, Lenk, and Miller played female characters in their shows. I didn't see Whoopi on stage in Forum, but in the clips I've seen of her on-line, she makes no attempt to play the role as a man. Harvey Fierstein, Charles Busch, and Brian Bedford in Hairspray, The Divine Sister, and Earnest played their respective roles credibly as women. When I saw King Lear last year, Glenda Jackson disappeared into the role and I only saw the character Lear on stage. However, 3 years ago in Chicago I saw a production of Picnic in which Hal was played by a female performer who I knew to be a fine actor. Her hair was cut sort, she dressed like a guy, and her line readings were appropriate, but never for a minute did I believe I was seeing a man on stage as Hal. The performance was well done and I don't regret seeing it, but it felt like I was watching Madge having a fling with another woman. I'm open to what ART is trying to do. I don't think it's impossible, but I would be hesitant to buy a ticket until I heard comments from others who had seen it. |
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| re: 1776 -- Female Cast | |
| Last Edit: mikem 11:27 pm EDT 04/16/20 | |
| Posted by: mikem 11:20 pm EDT 04/16/20 | |
| In reply to: 1776 -- Female Cast - BroadwayTonyJ 10:52 pm EDT 04/16/20 | |
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| One of the missing elements here is that neither Diane Paulus nor anyone else in the production has told us why they've decided to cast this particular show in this way. What's the overall concept of this production? Is it set in the 1700s? Are the actors wearing period male costumes, something more unisex and contemporary, or something else? It's hard to tell whether this is an overarching directorial concept that will illuminate the text, or if this is just a gimmick. BroadwayTonyJ, it sounds gimmicky to me to cast Hal in Picnic with a female actor. Was it clear why the show was cast in that fashion? |
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| re: 1776 -- Female Cast | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 01:11 am EDT 04/17/20 | |
| In reply to: re: 1776 -- Female Cast - mikem 11:20 pm EDT 04/16/20 | |
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| I don't think the casting choice was intended to be a gimmick. The artistic director stated he wanted the audience to look at the story from a fresh point of view. He felt that the female actor he chose for the role was the one who best embodied his vision for Hal. The production got mostly positive reviews from all the papers except from the one that everyone in Chicago reads -- the Tribune gave it a mixed review. | |
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| re: 1776 -- Female Cast | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 03:56 pm EDT 04/17/20 | |
| In reply to: re: 1776 -- Female Cast - BroadwayTonyJ 01:11 am EDT 04/17/20 | |
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| "I don't think the casting choice was intended to be a gimmick. The artistic director stated he wanted the audience to look at the story from a fresh point of view. He felt that the female actor he chose for the role was the one who best embodied his vision for Hal." When casting like this happens, I find it interesting to ponder EXACTLY what is the intent of it. Hal in PICNIC is William Inge's portrait of what might be described as a hyper-male character who trades on his specifically hyper-male sexuality as he moves through life, and it seems that pretty much every aspect of his life is informed by his hyper-male sexuality. If you have a woman playing the role, that can arguably allow us to look at those facets of the character in a new way through a sort of distancing or "strange-making" effect along Brechtian lines. Another way to phrase it is that casting a woman as Hal allows that actor in her performance to comment on this hyper-male character. But even if one does find that fascinating, obviously the play and the character work -- if they still do -- on a VERY different level than in a traditionally cast production, and of course, not every audience member is going to respond well to that. |
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| re: 1776 -- Female Cast | |
| Posted by: mikem 11:01 am EDT 04/17/20 | |
| In reply to: re: 1776 -- Female Cast - BroadwayTonyJ 01:11 am EDT 04/17/20 | |
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| BroadwayTonyJ, thanks! I think one of the pivotal aspects of Picnic is that multiple women in the town are physically attracted to Hal, so having him played by a woman and the other characters also played by women creates themes that could overshadow the other themes of the play. I'm glad to hear that was not the case. | |
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