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| Hidden puns in character names? | |
| Posted by: 37Rubydog 01:47 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| I've been watching a lot of the Met Opera streams and reading about opera voices. I ran across the term "tessitura"...and realized that "Tessie Tura" the stripper must be a play on the term. Clearly I'm the last person to notice this, but it made me wonder if there are hidden puns in other character names. I'm at a loss to figure out what Mazeppa might mean....but I'm certain there are other "punny" characters out there. Thoughts? Ideas? |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names? | |
| Posted by: Ned3301 05:15 am EDT 04/21/20 | |
| In reply to: Hidden puns in character names? - 37Rubydog 01:47 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| One of the cleverest is the name of the Devil in Damn Yankees--Applegate. The apple refers us back to the first sin of all, in Eden, and the Devil is in effect the "gate"--that is, the procurer of lost souls with which to populate his domain--of hell. |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names? | |
| Posted by: wmgrad1976 11:04 am EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: Hidden puns in character names? - 37Rubydog 01:47 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| "La Cage aux Folles" Edouard Dindon (the right-wing politician) - Dindon in French means turkey. Bitelle (a cagelle) - bitelle in french mean small penis. |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names? | |
| Posted by: SCH 12:33 pm EDT 04/21/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names? - wmgrad1976 11:04 am EDT 04/20/20 | |
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| Dindon also means a dope or an idiot. And être le dindon de la farce means to be the butt of the joke. | |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names? | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 08:47 am EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: Hidden puns in character names? - 37Rubydog 01:47 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| S.J. Perelman wins with his wonderful play, The Beauty Part: Harry Hubris Kitty Entrail Grace Fingerhead Rob Roy Fruitwell Mrs. Younghusband Goddard Quagmeyer Vernon Equinox Sherry Quicklime Chenille Schreiber Sam Fussfeld and so many more..... |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names? | |
| Posted by: WWriter 11:52 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: Hidden puns in character names? - 37Rubydog 01:47 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| When Algernon in The Importance of Being Earnest wants not to have to accept an invitation, he goes bunburying. Granted, Bunbury is not an actual character in the play, but it's a heck of a name | |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 12:43 am EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names? - WWriter 11:52 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Of course, "Earnest" is a pun in context...;-) | |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names? | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 02:06 pm EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names? - Chromolume 12:43 am EDT 04/20/20 | |
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| And the Rev. Canon Chasuble. | |
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| A Few Others | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:47 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: Hidden puns in character names? - 37Rubydog 01:47 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| In Annie, Lily St. Regis ("I'm named after the hotel") is of course a pun on Lily St. Cyr. In Little Shop, there's mention of the account with a funeral home owned by a Mrs. Shiva. In Bye Bye Birdie, in addition to the title character (a name play on Conway Twitty, even though the character is based more on Elvis), there's also the would-be secretary "bombshell" Gloria Rasputin. In the Pasek/Paul James And The Giant Peach, there's a quasi-narrator character named Ladahlord - which is an anagram of Roald Dahl. |
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| re: A Few Others | |
| Posted by: keikekaze 10:48 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: A Few Others - Chromolume 09:47 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Speaking of bombshells, "Belle Poitrine" (in Little Me) has a meaning all its own in French. In the same show and in the same spirit, the upper-class twit would of course be "Noble Eggleston." Most of the names in A Funny Thing Happened On the Way to the Forum are Latin puns or character-type names, some of them drawn straight from Roman comedy, like Senex (old man), Domina (battle-ax wife), and Miles Gloriosus (braggart soldier). Others seem to be inventions by Shevelove and Gelbart, but in a similar spirit, like Hysterium for an eternally-worried servant, Erroneus for a doddering and confused old man, Marcus Lycus ("Marcus the wolf") for the brothel keeper, and Gymnasia for one of his more statuesque girls. I always thought Queen Agravain in Once Upon a Mattress was most aptly named. Her name suggests both "aggravating" and "vain," but at the same time it sounds like an actual medieval name (Yvain, Ygraine, Morgaine, etc., etc.). In fact, there's a knight (male) in Arthurian legend whose name really is Agravain. Similarly, King Sextimus speaks for itself (it has to, because he doesn't), but it could also be a real medieval name. |
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| And then there's the play titled Mostellaria | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 02:05 pm EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: A Few Others - keikekaze 10:48 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Entirely coincidentally, there is a Plautus play titled Mostellaria, translated as The Haunted House, and part of the source of the Erronius subplot. Zero Mostel, of course, was not the authors' first choice or even second choice for Pseudolus. (In fact, they even supposedly threatened to not let it go forward with Mostel.) Senex is a character name in The Menaechmi, and another character is a courtesan named Erotium. Gymnasium is the name of a courtesan in Plautus' Cistellaria (The Casket). Mostellaria includes slaves named Grumio and Tranio, names used by Shakespeare in The Taming of the Shrew. I wonder if those names are also in Shakespeare's English source play. And Pseudolus is indeed the name of the slave who tries to procure a slave girl for his young master in the Plautus play titled Pseudolus. I'm surprised no one has mentioned Lady Wishfort in Congreve's The Way of the World, but of course Restoration comedy, and the later English plays sometimes mistakenly referred to as Restoration comedies, are full of punning character names. |
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| forum | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 12:42 am EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: A Few Others - keikekaze 10:48 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Even Pseudolus is a pun name! | |
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| re: A Few Others | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:31 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: A Few Others - keikekaze 10:48 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| "I always thought Queen Agravain in Once Upon a Mattress was most aptly named. Her name suggests both "aggravating" and "vain," but at the same time it sounds like an actual medieval name (Yvain, Ygraine, Morgaine, etc., etc.)." And it also makes me think of the word "migraine" :-) |
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| re: A Few Others | |
| Posted by: keikekaze 05:58 pm EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: A Few Others - Michael_Portantiere 11:31 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| And it also makes me think of the word "migraine" :-) Somehow I never thought of that--but you're absolutely right! |
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| re: A Few Others | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 11:01 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: A Few Others - keikekaze 10:48 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Similarly, King Sextimus speaks for itself (it has to, because he doesn't) I love how you put that! ;-) |
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| re: A Few Others | |
| Posted by: keikekaze 06:00 pm EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: A Few Others - Chromolume 11:01 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Thank you. Sometimes they just hand themselves to you--on a silver platter, so to speak--while you're in the middle of writing. | |
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| re: A Few Others | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:13 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: A Few Others - Chromolume 09:47 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Ha! I know who Lili St. Cyr was -- if only through her mention in the lyrics of "Zip" from PAL JOEY -- but I don't think it ever occurred to me that Lily St. Regis's name is a pun on that. Until now! So thanks :-) | |
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| re: A Few Others | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 03:14 pm EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: A Few Others - Michael_Portantiere 10:13 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| She's also name checked in THE ROCKY HORROR SHOW. "God Bless, Lili St. Cyr." |
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| J. Pierpont Finch | |
| Posted by: andPeggy 09:08 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: Hidden puns in character names? - 37Rubydog 01:47 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| J. P. Morgan is John Pierpoint Morgan | |
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| re: J. Pierpont Finch | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 02:15 am EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: J. Pierpont Finch - andPeggy 09:08 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| It's of note that while J. P. Morgan's middle name was spelled Pierpont, as you spelled it, that is not how the name of the character in the show is spelled in the show's script. In the script it is spelled Pierrepont. Playbills for the original production (and the tours and in London) listed him only as Finch. But when it comes to puns, the finch is a small bird, and Robert Morse was short and fairly slight, as were several, although not all, of the actors who played Finch in the various companies of the original. |
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| re: J. Pierpont Finch | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 05:26 pm EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: J. Pierpont Finch - AlanScott 02:15 am EDT 04/20/20 | |
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| "It's of note that while J. P. Morgan's middle name was spelled Pierpont, as you spelled it, that is not how the name of the character in the show is spelled in the show's script. In the script it is spelled Pierrepont." I noticed that when I directed a production of the show many years ago, and I've always wondered why the change. I can't imagine it was to avoid any legal problems, because the all-important last name is different anyway, but maybe they just wanted to be super careful on that front. |
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| re: J. Pierpont Finch | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:19 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: J. Pierpont Finch - andPeggy 09:08 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| And of course Hedy LaRue corresponds to Hedy Lamarr (which also becomes a joke in Blazing Saddles with Hedley Lamarr), and "Frump" is an apt name for Biggley's (another one) mess of a nephew. Also, the candidate for the advertising VP is named Benjamin Burton Daniel Ovington - or B.B.D.O. |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names? | |
| Posted by: comedywest 07:26 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: Hidden puns in character names? - 37Rubydog 01:47 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Willy Loman (on the totem pole). and I always thought the Bratters in Barefoot in the Park) were aptly names. |
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| Hidden puns in character names - On The Town | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 07:08 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: Hidden puns in character names? - 37Rubydog 01:47 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| A bunch of these in On The Town. Chip reveals his real name to be John Offenblock, which is a takeoff on composer Jacques Offenbach as well as a pun on "chip off the old block." Claire DeLoone is of course a pun on "Claire de Lune" - which could refer to a number of classical pieces as well as simply meaning "moonlight." Hildy's full name is Brunnhilde Esterhazy - the first name coming from Wagner's Ring, the last name being composer Franz Josef Haydn's benefactor family. Hildy's boss at the taxi company is "S. Uperman." I'm not sure of the exact pun in the Judge's name - Pitkin W. Bridgework - but clearly there's something there. and more... |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names - On The Town | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 09:05 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: Hidden puns in character names - On The Town - Chromolume 07:08 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Yeah, those names in ON THE TOWN are great. Although I didn't fully get Hildy's boss's name -- I didn't know about the "S.," I thought she just referred to him as "Mr. Upperman" (and I thought it was spelled that way, with two p's). | |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names - On The Town | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:12 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names - On The Town - Michael_Portantiere 09:05 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Yes - I agree the "S. Uperman" joke doesn't land as it could - you might only catch it from the program listing (or of course the script). | |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names - On The Town | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 09:28 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names - On The Town - Chromolume 09:12 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Right, but I didn't even know (or remember) that the character is listed with the "S" initial in the program. | |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names - On The Town | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:30 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names - On The Town - Michael_Portantiere 09:28 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Right. I guess what I should have said is if you don't remember it (or see it) in the program listing, the joke is lost. ;-) | |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names - On The Town | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:09 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names - On The Town - Chromolume 09:30 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Gotcha. Since I didn't know about the "S" and I assumed his name was spelled "Upperman," I guess I thought maybe the name was a different kind of pun, you know, "upper man on the totem pole" -- the opposite of Willy Loman, "low man on the the totem pole," which someone else here pointed out. :-) |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names - On The Town | |
| Posted by: Snowysdad 09:55 am EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names - On The Town - Michael_Portantiere 10:09 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Where ever Comden and Green were at work look for these insider jokes. A couple of my favorites include all the opera jokes in "Catch Our Act at the Met" from Two on the Isle Dolores Gray: I'll play Lucia Bert Lahr: and I'll play sextette by Don Ameche D. Gray: No Donizetti Both: and we'll be putting the wriggle into Rigolett and Dr. Kitchel the Dentist who writes songs on his air hose in Bells are Ringing. This comes from Harold Karr, composer of Ethel Merman's then recent musical Happy Hunting who had been a dentist and may very well have gone back to practicing after. Also lots of people in the news at the time mentioned in "Drop That Name." |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names - On The Town | |
| Last Edit: WaymanWong 03:41 pm EDT 04/20/20 | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 03:41 pm EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names - On The Town - Snowysdad 09:55 am EDT 04/20/20 | |
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| That show is actually called ''Two on the Aisle.'' Although ''Two on the Isle'' could be a musical about Robinson Crusoe and his man, Friday. ;) | |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names? | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 02:27 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: Hidden puns in character names? - 37Rubydog 01:47 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Names that were obvious puns were constantly used in nineteenth and early 20th century plays. I’ll dig out a bunch in a bit. But I can explain Mazeppa without checking the reference books. The real Ivan Mazeppa was a Ukrainian separatist of the mid 17th century. He had an affair, was caught, stripped naked, and was tied to a runway horse. He survived,,and had various adventures. His life was turned into a romantic poem by Byron. Flash forward to New Orleans, and a lively young lady named Adah Isaacs Menken, a beauty who was the mistress of an Austrian nobleman, had four marriages, cropped her hair and smoke in public, and was a stage star. Her biggest hit was playing MAZEPPA, OR THE WILD HORSE OF TARTARY (1861). In which she wore a flesh colored tight, and rode across the stage on a real horse. This was a sensation, of course, and even after Adah’s time, the role continued. (Google images for the title.) People in 1920s and 1930s America were not likely to know the Ukrainian hero, the Byron poem, but the image of Nekkid Girl On Horse On Stage remained. Laura, historian (not) at large |
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| MAZEPPA is also the title of an opera by Tchaikovsky.... | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 04:52 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names? - showtunetrivia 02:27 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| ....based on the story of the 17th-century Ukrainian figure that you mentioned. But I suspect you're right and whoever named the character in GYPSY -- presumably Arthur Laurents -- was probably more likely thinking of the OTHER Mazeppa you cited. | |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names? | |
| Last Edit: WaymanWong 03:51 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 03:49 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names? - showtunetrivia 02:27 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Speaking of ''Gypsy,'' it took me years to realize that Tulsa and Yonkers were probably named based on where these boys joined Rose's troupe. In later revivals, the show added other names, like Kansas, which were not among those listed in the original cast. By the way, in looking up the original cast listing, I was surprised to learn that ''Gypsy'' (1959) did only 2 previews (!). We're so used to new musicals being in previews for a month or so. Even the 2008 ''Gypsy'' revival, starring Patti LuPone, did 27 previews. Just for a point of reference, I looked up the original ''The Sound of Music'' (also 1959), and it did only 5 previews. |
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| Previews were out of town back then | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 04:20 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names? - WaymanWong 03:49 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| The reason their Gypsy and Sound of Music has so few previews was that they had out of town tryouts. The original Gypsy did six weeks in Philadelphia (and I think a few more in New Haven). That adds up to a lot more than 27 preview performances. |
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| re: Previews were out of town back then | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 11:17 pm EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: Previews were out of town back then - whereismikeyfl 04:20 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| On a minor matter, Gypsy played only Philadelphia prior to Broadway, and for five weeks. The truth is that over time even musicals that did traditional out-of-town tryouts, back when musicals still did that, generally started playing more previews in New York, although it varied somewhat. (In case anyone thinks I'm saying that no musicals nowadays do out-of-town tryouts, I'm not. I'm talking about shows playing out of town and then proceeding to New York without taking a break of at least a couple of months.) At one time, many musicals and plays closed out of town on a Saturday, and opened on Broadway two days later with no previews, but that was pretty long ago. I'm sure you know that, but not everyone does. |
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| Much more technically complex stagings today | |
| Last Edit: seeseveryshow 06:50 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| Posted by: seeseveryshow 06:49 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: Previews were out of town back then - whereismikeyfl 04:20 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Back in the 1950's, big musicals like GYPSY and THE SOUND OF MUSIC could close in one theater on a Saturday night, and open a few days later at another. They didn't have the sophisticated scenic and lighting machinery, and sound design, that shows do today and, I believe, they didn't bring in their own decks. Accordingly, they did not require as much tech time to make sure everything worked properly prior to opening. So, they could open after a couple of previews. I saw the original productions of both of those shows from excellent mezzanine seats (admittedly a long time ago), and I don't recall that they used electronics or computers to move set pieces on and off, or traps and elevators, which are common nowadays. The employed simple, perhaps even primitive, stagecraft by today's standards. Maybe someone knows when the modern deck became standard for most Broadway shows. IIRC, the original Camelot had some sort of luminous stage floor. Not sure how that was accomplished. |
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| re: Much more technically complex stagings today | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 11:21 pm EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: Much more technically complex stagings today - seeseveryshow 06:49 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Even shows that had decks were able to do that because the decks were simpler. I may be wrong on this, I'm not an expert, but I would think any show that used turntables or winches or (this was less common but was done) a treadmill had to have had a deck of some sort. And those go back a long time. | |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names? | |
| Posted by: stevemr 03:34 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names? - showtunetrivia 02:27 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| All true. And all have opera connections of one sort or the other. Of course there are lots of other opera names that could have been picked, so let me suggest the possibility that Mazeppa's name was reverse-engineered, so to speak, in order to give Sondheim the ability to rhyme with "schleppa" | |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names? | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 03:55 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names? - stevemr 03:34 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| I think Sondheim, Cole Porter and lots of other lyricists reverse-engineer something, and can be especially flexible as to inserting a proper name or place, when they have a good punch-line or funny word they'd love to include, like "schleppa". | |
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| Reverse engineering | |
| Posted by: TimDunleavy 09:57 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names? - PlayWiz 03:55 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Peter Filichia has written that he asked Sondheim if the character in FOLLIES was named Weismann so that it would rhyme with "nice man," and Sondheim was offended and said he would never do such a thing. (Peter, please correct me as to the wording!) |
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| re: Reverse engineering | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:18 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: Reverse engineering - TimDunleavy 09:57 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| ***Peter Filichia has written that he asked Sondheim if the character in FOLLIES was named Weismann so that it would rhyme with "nice man..."*** Whichever came first, the weird thing about that is "Weisman" would correctly be pronounced with a "z" sound instead of an "s" sound -- as if it were an English or American named spelled "Wiseman" -- which doesn't perfectly rhyme with "nice man," so I've always wondered why they didn't just spell it "Weissman" in FOLLIES, or change it to "Weissman" from "Weisman" after Sondheim came up with that line. |
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| re: Reverse engineering | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 12:56 pm EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Reverse engineering - Michael_Portantiere 10:18 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| The character named Dimitri Weismann was in early drafts of the show when it was called The Girls Upstairs. And that was the spelling used in playbills and the published script: one S, with a double N at the end. I don't know if that was the character's name from the very beginning, but it was the character's name by three-and-a-half years before rehearsals started. "Beautiful Girls" was a fairly late addition to the score, replacing "Bring on the Girls," which did not include the character's name. (For some reason, they decided to use "Bring on the Girls" rather than "Beautiful Girls" as Roscoe's pre-recorded song in the original opening sequence, used for almost the entire Boston run, sung by Kurt Peterson, but "Beautiful Girls" had replaced it as the song to be used in the show before rehearsals started.) So, yes, the character was not named because of the rhyme. I'm confused by the pronunciation question. I've been under the impression that Weiß or Weis is pronounced with a soft S, and that's what I hear on German dictionaries online. |
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| re: Reverse engineering | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 02:38 pm EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Reverse engineering - AlanScott 12:56 pm EDT 04/20/20 | |
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| I have no idea why I mentioned "Beautiful Girls." Anyway, "Broadway Baby" was written well after the character was named Weismann. |
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| re: Reverse engineering | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 01:10 pm EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Reverse engineering - AlanScott 12:56 pm EDT 04/20/20 | |
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| "I'm confused by the pronunciation question. I've been under the impression that Weiß or Weis is pronounced with a soft S, and that's what I hear on German dictionaries online." If you checked it out, then maybe I'm wrong about that. I remember being corrected in the past when I pronounced it with a double-s sound, but it's certainly possible that the people correcting me were incorrect themselves. I just re-listened to the original cast recording, and the actor who played Weismann does in fact say it with the soft "s" or double-s sound, so I guess that's what they wanted even if there is some question about the spelling. |
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| re: Reverse engineering | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 11:04 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Reverse engineering - Michael_Portantiere 10:18 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| You're of course making the assumption that Mr. Weisman (or eben more appropriately, others) actually used the German pronunciation instead of the Americanized "s" sound. ;-) But I wouldn't doubt that Sondheim didn't reverse engineer that - after all, he didn't do it for "Armfeldt / Charm felt" - given that that was the name in the Bergman film. :-) |
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| re: Reverse engineering | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:39 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Reverse engineering - Chromolume 11:04 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| ***You're of course making the assumption that Mr. Weisman (or eben more appropriately, others) actually used the German pronunciation instead of the Americanized "s" sound. ;-)*** I see your point, but I still don't understand why they didn't just spell it "Weissman." I've never bought the argument that saying, for example, "Weisman" as "Weissman" is okay because it's an "Americanized" pronunciation. To me, it's just wrong. ***But I wouldn't doubt that Sondheim didn't reverse engineer that - after all, he didn't do it for "Armfeldt / Charm felt" - given that that was the name in the Bergman film. :-)*** I was actually going to mention that I used to wonder if that rhyme was reverse engineered, but then I looked it up and found that, indeed, that's her name in the Bergman film. And, come to think of it, there's probably no reason why it would have occurred to Sondheim to use the phrase "she may hope to make her charm felt" if the name "Arrmfeldt" wasn't already in place for him to rhyme with. Whatever -- it's a BRILLIANT rhyme. |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names? | |
| Posted by: EvFoDr 04:13 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names? - PlayWiz 03:55 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| What a coincidence to see this thread as I was JUST pondering this on a walk about an hour ago. Was listening to Dirty Rotten Soundrels and in the song Son of Great Big Stuff, Norbert sings "I get the dough, I get the broad, I'm gettin' rid of Sigmund fraud". It seems unlikely the entire subplot of John Lithgow's character posing a pychoanalyist (or psychiatrist?) was reverse engineered so Yazbek could make this joke, playing off both Freud's profession and the wordplay of Freud/fraud. But I think it's just delicions. It's clever but also only works in a very specific way in reference to the plot of this show, which makes it even more impressive. Another favorite of mine from this show is "She's down for fifty mil', in an addendum to his will, and where there's a will, there's a way". Also works on many levels at one time, being clever word play on its own, but also in service of the plot, manipulating someone for financial gain. |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 03:22 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 03:21 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names? - showtunetrivia 02:27 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| There's also an opera called "Mazeppa" by Tchaikowsky (very rarely done, though maybe still done in Russia). Sondheim also named the other stripper "Electra", which also has an eponymous opera written by Richard Strauss (and she's not a fun character by any means of the imagination). | |
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| Laurents | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 01:29 am EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names? - PlayWiz 03:21 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| To give the devil his due, I am almost positive that all the stripper names came from Laurents. There are drafts at the Library for the Performing Arts from before most of the score was written, and it's amazing how much of the show is already there, even without a lot of the songs. No wonder Robbins supposedly said to Laurents out of town that it was his (Laurents's) show, a book writer's show, not the kind of show to which Robbins could make his special type of contributions. | |
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| i assumed Electra was for electricity. | |
| Posted by: dramedy 05:11 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names? - PlayWiz 03:21 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Not the opera, but that makes sense with the other stripper name is an opera. | |
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| re: i assumed Electra was for electricity. | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 06:58 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: i assumed Electra was for electricity. - dramedy 05:11 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Yes, though of course Electra dates back to the ancient Greeks. Also, of course there is an opera (by Marvin David Levy) based on the O'Neill play Mourning Becomes Electra |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names? | |
| Posted by: BruceinIthaca 02:56 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names? - showtunetrivia 02:27 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| The first one that leaps to mind is Bunny Flingus in The House of Blue Leaves. I remember when I first read the play, around middle school, I just thought it was a funny name for someone to have! Ah, for the innocence of youth. | |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names? | |
| Posted by: andyboy 03:30 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names? - BruceinIthaca 02:56 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| Bruce, up until NOW I'd always thought it was just a funny name as well (and because she's having a "fling" with Artie, it seemed maybe even a little on-the-nose). I never until just this moment as I ran the sound of it over and over in my head, realized that the name is actually more "on the tongue!" | |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names? | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 03:05 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names? - BruceinIthaca 02:56 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| I never go this before. Ah, for the innocence of middle age. | |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names? | |
| Posted by: 37Rubydog 03:26 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names? - whereismikeyfl 03:05 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| As a middle aged theater kid I’m in the same boat. 😀 | |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names? | |
| Posted by: altonido 01:29 am EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names? - 37Rubydog 03:26 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| In "Auntie Mame" and "Mame," Mame's trusted friend and long-time admirer is one M. Lindsay Woolsey. This is a play on the apparently ancient term "linsey-woolsey," generally defined as a coarse fabric but also as "a jumble." | |
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| re: Hidden puns in character names? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 01:47 am EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Hidden puns in character names? - altonido 01:29 am EDT 04/20/20 | |
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| And the plantation name is Peckerwood. | |
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