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| re: Reverse engineering | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:18 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: Reverse engineering - TimDunleavy 09:57 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| ***Peter Filichia has written that he asked Sondheim if the character in FOLLIES was named Weismann so that it would rhyme with "nice man..."*** Whichever came first, the weird thing about that is "Weisman" would correctly be pronounced with a "z" sound instead of an "s" sound -- as if it were an English or American named spelled "Wiseman" -- which doesn't perfectly rhyme with "nice man," so I've always wondered why they didn't just spell it "Weissman" in FOLLIES, or change it to "Weissman" from "Weisman" after Sondheim came up with that line. |
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| re: Reverse engineering | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 12:56 pm EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Reverse engineering - Michael_Portantiere 10:18 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| The character named Dimitri Weismann was in early drafts of the show when it was called The Girls Upstairs. And that was the spelling used in playbills and the published script: one S, with a double N at the end. I don't know if that was the character's name from the very beginning, but it was the character's name by three-and-a-half years before rehearsals started. "Beautiful Girls" was a fairly late addition to the score, replacing "Bring on the Girls," which did not include the character's name. (For some reason, they decided to use "Bring on the Girls" rather than "Beautiful Girls" as Roscoe's pre-recorded song in the original opening sequence, used for almost the entire Boston run, sung by Kurt Peterson, but "Beautiful Girls" had replaced it as the song to be used in the show before rehearsals started.) So, yes, the character was not named because of the rhyme. I'm confused by the pronunciation question. I've been under the impression that Weiß or Weis is pronounced with a soft S, and that's what I hear on German dictionaries online. |
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| re: Reverse engineering | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 02:38 pm EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Reverse engineering - AlanScott 12:56 pm EDT 04/20/20 | |
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| I have no idea why I mentioned "Beautiful Girls." Anyway, "Broadway Baby" was written well after the character was named Weismann. |
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| re: Reverse engineering | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 01:10 pm EDT 04/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Reverse engineering - AlanScott 12:56 pm EDT 04/20/20 | |
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| "I'm confused by the pronunciation question. I've been under the impression that Weiß or Weis is pronounced with a soft S, and that's what I hear on German dictionaries online." If you checked it out, then maybe I'm wrong about that. I remember being corrected in the past when I pronounced it with a double-s sound, but it's certainly possible that the people correcting me were incorrect themselves. I just re-listened to the original cast recording, and the actor who played Weismann does in fact say it with the soft "s" or double-s sound, so I guess that's what they wanted even if there is some question about the spelling. |
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| re: Reverse engineering | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 11:04 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Reverse engineering - Michael_Portantiere 10:18 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| You're of course making the assumption that Mr. Weisman (or eben more appropriately, others) actually used the German pronunciation instead of the Americanized "s" sound. ;-) But I wouldn't doubt that Sondheim didn't reverse engineer that - after all, he didn't do it for "Armfeldt / Charm felt" - given that that was the name in the Bergman film. :-) |
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| re: Reverse engineering | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:39 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Reverse engineering - Chromolume 11:04 pm EDT 04/19/20 | |
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| ***You're of course making the assumption that Mr. Weisman (or eben more appropriately, others) actually used the German pronunciation instead of the Americanized "s" sound. ;-)*** I see your point, but I still don't understand why they didn't just spell it "Weissman." I've never bought the argument that saying, for example, "Weisman" as "Weissman" is okay because it's an "Americanized" pronunciation. To me, it's just wrong. ***But I wouldn't doubt that Sondheim didn't reverse engineer that - after all, he didn't do it for "Armfeldt / Charm felt" - given that that was the name in the Bergman film. :-)*** I was actually going to mention that I used to wonder if that rhyme was reverse engineered, but then I looked it up and found that, indeed, that's her name in the Bergman film. And, come to think of it, there's probably no reason why it would have occurred to Sondheim to use the phrase "she may hope to make her charm felt" if the name "Arrmfeldt" wasn't already in place for him to rhyme with. Whatever -- it's a BRILLIANT rhyme. |
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