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| Pygmalion—do you think professor and Eliza have a chaste relationship | |
| Posted by: dramedy 11:45 am EDT 04/23/20 | |
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| little dog laughed kind of reminds me of pretty woman story—hooker meets rich dude that changed his/her life. Then it occurred to me that my fair lady almost has the same plot. I always found it odd that a single woman would live with a man for elocution lessons at the turn of the 20th century. Since early 1900s are more implied sexual relationships than now, do scholars think that Pygmalion was a sexual relationship between the two? | |
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| re: Pygmalion—do you think professor and Eliza have a chaste relationship | |
| Posted by: jeffef 05:56 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
| In reply to: Pygmalion—do you think professor and Eliza have a chaste relationship - dramedy 11:45 am EDT 04/23/20 | |
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| why would a confirmed old bachelor (gay) have a sexual relation with his female student? snark | |
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| re: Pygmalion—do you think professor and Eliza have a chaste relationship | |
| Posted by: mikem 03:15 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
| In reply to: Pygmalion—do you think professor and Eliza have a chaste relationship - dramedy 11:45 am EDT 04/23/20 | |
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| In Pygmalion, the relationship was chaste, but in the sequel, "Love Never Speaks English Properly," we find out that Eliza and Higgins slept together right before she married Freddy. | |
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| Best laugh of the day! | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 03:50 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Pygmalion—do you think professor and Eliza have a chaste relationship - mikem 03:15 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
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| It’s now the Roaring Twenties. Freddy is a bit long in the tooth to be a Bright Young Thing, but he’s still good-looking enough to pull it off. They have plenty of money—no need for Eliza to open a flower shop. Mrs. Eynsford-Hill had a stroke when learning the truth about Freddy’s intended bride, then another (this time, fatal) when Eliza gave birth to a seven month baby. Freddy was, of course, an officer in the war, and with the typical fortune of the brainless, came through unscathed. Eliza, meanwhile, manages their money with the same efficiency she used running Higgins’ affairs. The Professor, bereft of his twin pillars (his mother died in the flu epidemic) that kept order while he studied vowels, is now bankrupt. He and the Colonel have been taken under the wing of a middle aged niece of Pickering’s who runs a variety theatre. The old man had helped her family out when she was child, so she’s repaying his kindness. She doesn’t like Higgins, but while he lacks stage presence, he has a great act in which he guesses the origins of audience members. The Colonel has a comic turn, playing a Mancunian housewife, in full drag, gossiping about her neighbors. Higgins drilled him endlessly until he perfected the dialect. Eliza’s son, Hugh, began talking at nine months and has never shut up. He’s brilliant, inquisitive, impatient, and while only ten, knows he has nothing in common with his father. Eliza doesn’t, either. So one night, when Freddy is out drinking at a bash with Evelyn Waugh and the Mitford sisters, Eliza takes young Hugh to see a show.... Laura |
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| re: Best laugh of the day! | |
| Posted by: mikem 10:28 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
| In reply to: Best laugh of the day! - showtunetrivia 03:50 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
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| Thank you, Laura! I love your sequel to My Fair Lady. The drag Colonel Pickering is a great touch! Now you just need to get them to all go to Coney Island to meet up with The Phantom and Christine... Perhaps the two couples will find that their children were switched at birth! | |
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| re: Best laugh of the day! | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 11:22 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Best laugh of the day! - mikem 10:28 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
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| And drunken Raoul meets equally drunken and unhappily married Gaylord Ravenal at a poker match, and they sit around dissing their show biz wives! Laura, on a roll |
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| re: Best laugh of the day! | |
| Posted by: mikem 11:13 pm EDT 04/25/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Best laugh of the day! - showtunetrivia 11:22 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
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| That's a good one! Maybe, like TV shows that have cast crossovers, musicals should all exist in the same universe. Then we could see an elderly Marius and Cosette attending Christine Daae's debut alongside Raoul, and stuff like that! | |
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| re: Pygmalion—do you think professor and Eliza have a chaste relationship | |
| Posted by: young-walsingham 01:08 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
| In reply to: Pygmalion—do you think professor and Eliza have a chaste relationship - dramedy 11:45 am EDT 04/23/20 | |
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| I always wondered if Doolittle expects hanky panky - implied in his financial transaction …."until she's growed big enough to be interesting to you two gentlemen" | |
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| re: Pygmalion—do you think professor and Eliza have a chaste relationship | |
| Last Edit: singleticket 02:31 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
| Posted by: singleticket 02:31 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Pygmalion—do you think professor and Eliza have a chaste relationship - young-walsingham 01:08 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
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| Why not? Shaw's marriage to Charlotte Payne-Townshend was most likely "a chaste relationship". (Apologies, young-walsingham, that was meant as a reply to the OP.) |
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| re: Pygmalion—do you think professor and Eliza have a chaste relationship | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 01:18 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Pygmalion—do you think professor and Eliza have a chaste relationship - young-walsingham 01:08 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
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| I'm sure that's exactly what Doolittle THINKS is going on, at least in MY FAIR LADY, where he points out that when Eliza sent for her things, she didn't ask for any clothes. I don't know if that line is in PYGMALION, because it's been a really long time since I've seen a production. He's probably envisioning her spending her days as the naked plaything of these two gentlemen and thinks he's entitled to something for allowing this to continue. | |
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| re: Pygmalion—do you think professor and Eliza have a chaste relationship | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 12:55 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
| In reply to: Pygmalion—do you think professor and Eliza have a chaste relationship - dramedy 11:45 am EDT 04/23/20 | |
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| Yes, there is no question. And keep in mind, that in the play Eliza goes off and marries Freddy. | |
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| re: Pygmalion—do you think professor and Eliza have a chaste relationship | |
| Posted by: nyc23 09:15 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Pygmalion—do you think professor and Eliza have a chaste relationship - NewtonUK 12:55 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
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| In Pygmalion, Eliza may indeed marry Freddy, and the last time I saw My Fair Lady, if memory serves, Eliza goes to the lobby. | |
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| re: Pygmalion—do you think professor and Eliza have a chaste relationship | |
| Posted by: fredfrankg (fredfrankg427@gmail.com) 01:10 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Pygmalion—do you think professor and Eliza have a chaste relationship - NewtonUK 12:55 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
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| Interesting. I read Pygmalion in my youth, and seem to remember that Shaw wrote an Afterword in which he indicates that Eliza winds up with Pickering. Hope all are staying safe and as well as possible. Fred |
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| re: Pygmalion—do you think professor and Eliza have a chaste relationship | |
| Posted by: nyc23 12:12 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
| In reply to: Pygmalion—do you think professor and Eliza have a chaste relationship - dramedy 11:45 am EDT 04/23/20 | |
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| I’m not being glib; do scholars hypothesize about fictional character’s fictional behavior? Maybe there is some historical indication of Shaw’s intent in writing the play? | |
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| Mrs Warren profession | |
| Posted by: dramedy 12:30 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Pygmalion—do you think professor and Eliza have a chaste relationship - nyc23 12:12 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
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| Clearly focuses on prostitution in that era. So I don’t think it is that far fetched that another play of his has a sexual subtext. Shakespeare plays have been analyzed by scholars for centuries from every different angle, i doubt Shaw has been ignored. |
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| re: Mrs Warren profession | |
| Last Edit: nyc23 12:48 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
| Posted by: nyc23 12:47 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
| In reply to: Mrs Warren profession - dramedy 12:30 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
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| I don’t recall any textual hints of a sexual relationship in the text, but it has been so long, I’d have to reread it. Edit: In Pygmalion, of course. | |
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| It may not be in the text. | |
| Posted by: dramedy 12:56 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Mrs Warren profession - nyc23 12:47 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
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| Just the fact that professor moves a woman into his bachelor household in 1900 is probably not normal behavior and would have the neighbors talking. | |
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| Because it's part of what makes the situation comic. | |
| Posted by: tmdonahue (tmdonahue@yahoo.com) 03:40 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
| In reply to: It may not be in the text. - dramedy 12:56 pm EDT 04/23/20 | |
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| That the professor moving a women into his bachelor household is weird, unexpected, comic. That Higgins' response to this beautiful and over-the-course-of-the-play blossoming young woman is comically wrong. The audience falls in love with her. Higgins, not so much. Modern critics might write that Higgins is clearly homosexual. That would be wrong-headed too. He is a clownish character, with totally unusual reactions, which make him comic. Shaw was, he writes in the afterword to a later edition, often asked what became of Eliza. Supposedly to answer that, he wrote a long, detailed, pedantic afterword. I may be alone in thinking this, but I think the afterword is itself a joke, ribbing people who cannot accept ambiguity. The afterword has no humor in it and is, to me, less satisfying than not knowing what happens after the curtain comes down. Some folks want to know what happened to Nora after the door slammed ending Ibsen's "A Doll's House." What happened to Happy and Biff after "Death of a Salesman"? Where did Tom Wingfield go after Laura blows out her candles? Etc. |
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