Threaded Order Chronological Order
| James Grissom, Part 2 | |
| Last Edit: joerialto 03:23 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| Posted by: joerialto 03:16 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| Did I miss a thread on the second half of James Grissom’s critique of Lynn Nottage? The attack on Judith Light in this one is quite something. |
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| There is now a part 3 but I am not providing the link. | |
| Posted by: ryhog 04:56 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
| In reply to: James Grissom, Part 2 - joerialto 03:16 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| The pathology continues | |
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| re: Bitter Beer | |
| Posted by: Ordoc 01:08 am EDT 06/30/20 | |
| In reply to: There is now a part 3 but I am not providing the link. - ryhog 04:56 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
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| Grissom comes across as a bitter man. All the famous people in his life are dead. His one book has been overshadowed by John Lahr's book on Williams. It appears no one is interested in publishing Grissom's book on Brando. He has nothing left, so he spends his days lashing out at people he thinks do not deserve their success. It's like being slimed by a worm. | |
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| An old essay with a new title | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 06:33 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
| In reply to: There is now a part 3 but I am not providing the link. - ryhog 04:56 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
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| This essay was already posted on Medium when Part 2 went up, but it seems to have been retitled in order to make it part of the series. | |
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| He goes even further off the rails in Part 3 | |
| Posted by: Amiens 06:05 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
| In reply to: There is now a part 3 but I am not providing the link. - ryhog 04:56 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
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| No names are mentioned but lots of heavy-handed allusions to identities of the kind that used to be seen regularly in old Hollywood gossip columns. Is the very old Tony Award winning director Jack O'Brien? Is the non-profit Artistic Director married to a lawyer Lynne Meadow? I have no idea. And I can't even follow the story he's telling in his first paragraph. I think at this point he's making it all up. |
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| re: He goes even further off the rails in Part 3 | |
| Posted by: chriscurrie 06:43 am EDT 06/30/20 | |
| In reply to: He goes even further off the rails in Part 3 - Amiens 06:05 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
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| Ah, I get it. Grissom doesn't name names, but YOU do. Was that to be cruel or to prove your theatre cred? Then that dodgy "I have no idea." I think at this point, these stories are proving just how awful everyone is and how catastrophic the fall is going to be. And you are all still reading it. I think at this point you have too much time on your hands. I'm out of here. | |
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| re: James Grissom, Part 2 | |
| Posted by: AnObserver 09:33 am EDT 06/29/20 | |
| In reply to: James Grissom, Part 2 - joerialto 03:16 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| Ironic that this is just below a post about Kinky Boots (which I never saw, but heard it was a good example of the kind of non-serious work Grissom writes about). I checked, and Roth was indeed appointed to the Board of Trustees of the Kennedy Center last year. So was "Michael Huckabee of Arkansas" and Trump supprter "Jon Voight of New York." |
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| re: James Grissom, Part 2 | |
| Posted by: Snowgrace 11:09 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| In reply to: James Grissom, Part 2 - joerialto 03:16 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| Quite a big vomit, this one; yikes...Actually, from my disappointing interaction after a q&a with childhood acting idol Judith Light (who, as a fellow actor noticed too, was quite rude after feeling "dated," I guess, by my acknowledgement), he may be on to something not always seen re her. But Jordan Roth &&& his mother couldn't have been more gracious the one time I waited on them!!! :) | |
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| re: James Grissom, Part 2 | |
| Posted by: Thom915 10:10 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| In reply to: James Grissom, Part 2 - joerialto 03:16 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| Appalling and hateful, racist and homophobic these are the rantings of a disordered mind. I believe that Grissom should seek psychiatric help. He is an educated and perhaps bright man and were he to be attacking any one of these targets on some substantive issue alone, there might be some room for discussion. But he insists on eviscerating his targets on every level. I hope he gets help/ | |
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| Here's a link | |
| Posted by: FrenchDip 03:25 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| In reply to: James Grissom, Part 2 - joerialto 03:16 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| click below | |
| Link | https://medium.com/@jgrissomnyc/black-lacuna-white-faggot-f93209bb028e |
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| Ugh. Maybe time to stop signal-boosting this douchebag? (nm) | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 08:25 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| In reply to: Here's a link - FrenchDip 03:25 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: LoisP 05:21 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| In reply to: Here's a link - FrenchDip 03:25 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| I feel like I need a shower after reading that. | |
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| Even Addison DeWitt wouldn't have obsessed on the race of Ms. Nottage's husband. | |
| Last Edit: Delvino 06:08 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| Posted by: Delvino 06:08 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - LoisP 05:21 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| I can't get past that sort of creepy privilege-fueled bitchery ("the bougie mind of Lynn Nottage," cheap, unearned code switching.) But once we dive into the Light excoriation, there's really nothing here but DeWittlessness. |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: AC126748 03:28 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| In reply to: Here's a link - FrenchDip 03:25 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| A rancorous piece of self-serving bloviation that demolishes what little credibility James Grissom might have still held onto. I would not be surprised if the majority of "anonymous" quotes in the piece are entirely his own invention. | |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: TheHarveyBoy 04:13 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - AC126748 03:28 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| Perhaps Jossie Smollet was his editor? | |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Last Edit: Singapore/Fling 05:26 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 05:21 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - TheHarveyBoy 04:13 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| I appreciated and defended his previous essay as being largely insightful alongside its moments of gossip and score settling, and I think I still believe that. But damn, the critics of that first essay were more perceptive than I was about Grissom's darker side. For me, this new essay is toxic, fueled by personal vendetta and a sheer, unadulterated hatred for Jordan Roth. I'll admit that I enjoyed some of the Roth potshots the first time around, because they were punching up to a person in a position of power, and they were calling out Roth's excess in a way that I can agree with while still admiring the effort - that Hadestown Tony outfit was delightfully ridiculous, and I love that he wore it and would also buy one in as instant if I could. This time, though, Grissom's just punching down, mercilessly, while reflecting a noxious strain of gay machismo that can't abide men who express femininity or queerness. I would say that some of his comments are borderline anti-gang hate speech, and during Pride weekend no less. It's very sad. I still agree with calling out the hypocrisy in our world, but he's condemning a rancid culture by being as rancid as he can possibly be. I'll be curious to see if this essay gets the same viral traction as the last one - and if it does, what the reaction will be. |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Last Edit: singleticket 07:32 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| Posted by: singleticket 07:31 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - Singapore/Fling 05:21 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| This asshole just accused a black writer of "spoor-hunting" (like big game hunting in Africa) because she makes documentary theater pieces about white working class rage... you know, the rage that is currently pointed at black people across the country and is threatening their lives. | |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: ryhog 06:02 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - Singapore/Fling 05:21 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| I am glad you are are able to separate the messenger from the message. I do have one question: has the first piece really gone viral (meaning outside of our insular world)? | |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Last Edit: T.B._Admin. 08:26 am EDT 06/29/20 | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 11:14 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - ryhog 06:02 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| I think it went viral within the theater community, which was the target audience. And it sounds like he got pushback for what he wrote about Lynn Nottage, as that part reads quite defensively. The messenger has lost his damn mind and plainly forgotten the message in his rush to settle old scores while he had eyeballs, lol. |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: AC126748 08:30 am EDT 06/29/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - Singapore/Fling 11:14 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| I personally didn't see many people discussing it, and those who were treated it dismissively for the most part. They recognized the question of money in theater was an important one, but they saw the piece for what it was: a self-serving hatchet job. | |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: Delvino 06:20 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - ryhog 06:02 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| Since I seem to be the poster most put off by his insidious broadsides against Nottage, I'll just say: I don't believe this spewed invective has great traction in the culture at large. Can't imagine that people of color in the theater will respond favorably. "Follies..." sold well (I have a copy, full disclosure), but these essays may taint even that book's reputation. It certainly adds to the speculation that he's, uh, a creative writer with a vivid imagination. We're at an inflection point: less vivid would be welcome. | |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: lordofspeech 07:12 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - Delvino 06:20 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| This writing scintillates, and, overall, scorns at the marketplace mentality that runs deep beneath our industry’s professed love of artistry, community, and public service. But I think we’ve always had a marketplace mentality. In the USA, at any rate. Does Lynn Nottage? Perhaps. Nothing wrong with that. And nothing wrong with being married to a light-skinned man or with not necessarily choosing to identify with her race in every aspect of herself. We used to hear people say they don’t want to be known as an Irish playwright, a female playwright, a gay playwight, etc. I don’t think Nottage needs to perform her blackness. In any way. Not in her personal or professional life. Nor does she need to be a saint. She’s a playwright, and she’s muscled her way into considerable respectability, celebrity, and prizes. Good for her. Was it classy that she didn’t reach out to the cast when they re-cast the show? I don’t know. What would she have said? Pretended like she didn’t want her play hitched to brighter lights? Better silence than hypocrisy. Look, we all know this could be called a cut-throat business. It’s just the reality of it all. Would that Raisin in the Sun have existed wothout Sean Combs? No. Stars are how the world plays now. I like that the writer is pointing to money as the source of so much: credential, celebrity, respect, and license. He’s cutting with a sharp knife. And he’s slicing wild, and there’s something exciting in the writing in that he’s not shying away from the taboos or the targets protected by political correctness. Full disclosure: i know Lynn Nottage’s husband to be very attractive and personable. In fine: Money makes the world go round. Of course. Why not say so? |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 09:53 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - lordofspeech 07:12 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| "....there’s something exciting in the writing...." You say exciting, I say appalling. |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: singleticket 07:32 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - lordofspeech 07:12 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| Let's get more people talking about money in the theater and elsewhere, I agree... other people besides this asshole. | |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: ryhog 07:42 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - singleticket 07:32 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| the internet droppings of people who are in more need of a psychiatrist's couch than a pulpit for their odiousness has become so commonplace that perhaps we are becoming immune to it. Let's (everyone, not us here) talk about issues and ideas, not people. Oh, and at the risk of mocking lapsed Catholicism, Matthew 7: 1-3. | |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 07:26 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - lordofspeech 07:12 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| When plays move on it is not uncommon for roles to be recast or a new designers assembled. In the last few months this is presented as a breach of some unspoken contract. You do not usually reach out because what you say is almost certain to be hurtful. (What can you say? "We wanted Elizabeth Marvel from the beginning but settled for you." "We like you but feel you missed on something essential in the character that Elizabeth can bring to life.""We just wanted a fresh start.") The weird animosity to interracial couples as somehow inauthentic is odd coming from someone trying to parade anti-racism as his brand. And asking playwrights to work to raise actors salaries (while pointing out that AEA did not) is just odd, |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 09:56 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - whereismikeyfl 07:26 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| "The weird animosity to interracial couples as somehow inauthentic is odd coming from someone trying to parade anti-racism as his brand." I know, can you BELIEVE he actually wrote that? I almost gasped when I read it. Truly shocking. |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: chriscurrie 07:45 am EDT 06/29/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - Michael_Portantiere 09:56 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| Except that Grissom did not write that--he quoted another playwright, also black, who is said to be going public with a piece about Nottage's insistence on remaining on the board of Second Stage. | |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 09:01 am EDT 06/29/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - chriscurrie 07:45 am EDT 06/29/20 | |
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| Leaving aside questions about the veracity of Grissom's "quotes," he included that statement. When a writer thinks his interviewee says something irrelevant, they leave it out. So in what way was this comment on her being married to a white man relevant? So did Grissom leave this in to undercut the credibility of he interviewee? Probably not. Did he leave it in to show how even Nottage's critics are so blinded that they criticize even the most innocuous things she does? Probably not. In the absence of any clear reason for leaving this in and given the absence of comment, it seems likely that Grissom is including this because he feels he it is a valid point. |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: sirpupnyc 09:23 am EDT 06/29/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - whereismikeyfl 09:01 am EDT 06/29/20 | |
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| And yet believing something to be a valid point doesn't make it one. People who call out mixed-race couples presumably believe their argument, but that doesn't make their argument valid. |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: ryhog 09:55 am EDT 06/29/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - sirpupnyc 09:23 am EDT 06/29/20 | |
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| Agreed. Nowadays we hear statements constantly from people who presumably believe their utterly invalid arguments about all kinds of things. The subject of intermarriage (whether racial, religious, or even just ethnicity) has always been popular. That does not make this sort of judgmentalism morally (or intellectually) defensible. | |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 09:43 am EDT 06/29/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - sirpupnyc 09:23 am EDT 06/29/20 | |
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| Yes, that was the whole point. | |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: AC126748 08:18 am EDT 06/29/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - chriscurrie 07:45 am EDT 06/29/20 | |
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| Except that Grissom did not write that--he quoted another playwright, also black, who is said to be going public with a piece about Nottage's insistence on remaining on the board of Second Stage. Allegedly. At this point, I'm not convinced of the veracity of any anonymous quotes Grissom has included in either of his pieces. Also, whether or not the quote is real, Nottage's marriage and the ethnicity of her husband have nothing to do with the points Grissom is trying to make. Including a quote that calls out Nottage's interracial marriage as a way to discredit or devalue her status as a Black woman and artist was a deliberate choice. |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: chriscurrie 03:22 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - AC126748 08:18 am EDT 06/29/20 | |
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| It is common for people to discredit sources when what they say doesn't comport to what a reader believes, but leaving that aside, re-reading the piece shows to me that the race of Nottage's husband is relevant because it might (MIGHT) explain why Nottage is not repulsed by the accounts of racism about Carole Rothman of Second Stage, and why she is ignoring calls from other Black artists to resign from the board of that theatre and place her play somewhere else. If she is listening to Rothman and her husband, that may explain a lot about her actions, or her lack of them. Neither her race nor her status as a Black woman were devalued, but her judgment and empathy were questioned. | |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: ryhog 11:07 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - chriscurrie 03:22 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
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| I don't really want to interrupt the discussion, except to satisfy my curiosity about one thing: how is what Grissom is doing here distinguishable from what Joe McCarthy did that caused Joe Welch to ask him "Have you no sense of decency?" Your claim of relevancy is not predicated on a fact, but on a supposition bereft of factual basis. Reckless character assassination (by him, not you), isn't it? | |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Last Edit: AC126748 03:53 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
| Posted by: AC126748 03:53 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - chriscurrie 03:22 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
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| It is frankly insulting to suggest that a Black woman is inclined to tolerate racism because she is married to a white man. And when a writer pens two essays that rely entirely on anonymous sources (with one exception) and all those sources happen to be in lock step with his own worldview, it makes sense to call their veracity into question. | |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: chriscurrie 09:09 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - AC126748 03:53 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
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| I see. This is done, of course, by many writers of editorials, which these pieces are, and is accepted by newspapers you probably read and trust and quote. Also, to assume that Blacks do not have racist viewpoints, or vision problems around racists if it helps their careers, is to simplify and define Black people to suit your own beliefs. Which is, I think, racism. Glad you cleared that up for us. | |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 03:50 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - chriscurrie 03:22 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
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| " the race of Nottage's husband is relevant because it might (MIGHT) explain why Nottage is not repulsed by the accounts of racism about Carole Rothman of Second Stage" I cannot understand the point you are making. Are you saying his race is relevant because people in interracial relationships are more tolerant of racism? Or because people in interracial relationships are blind to racism? Are black artists calling on Nottage to resign form Second Stage's board? Grissom says there is surprise, but does not actually say there was any direct engagement. Grissom leads the reader to assume many things without actually making a statement. He never says there is anything wrong with interracial marriage but from the first paragraph on keeps referencing the race of Nottage's husband. (Even here people say he did not explicitly write anything judgemental--but did he have to?) He also gives the impression that the actors from the Guthrie were fired from the New York production---but they finished the Minneapolis run. They played their full contract. I am with the commenter who says they feel like taking a bath after reading Grissom. |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: Delvino 09:20 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - whereismikeyfl 07:26 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| This, 100%: “The weird animosity to interracial couples as somehow inauthentic is odd coming from someone trying to parade anti-racism as his brand.” |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: theaterguy 10:42 am EDT 06/29/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - Delvino 09:20 pm EDT 06/28/20 | |
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| So Grissom--or rather, his source--feels that Nottage marrying outside her race somehow makes her corrupt, a sellout, and a fraud? I wasn't aware that miscegenation was still illegal. That's all you need to know about this piece, which also excoriates producers for wanting a hit and a playwright for not taking over the producer's/director's job of emailing the cast with updates. | |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: AC126748 12:03 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - theaterguy 10:42 am EDT 06/29/20 | |
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| It's pretty clear that Grissom holds a personal vendetta against Nottage, likely due to the fact that his friend Johanna Day was going to be replaced on Broadway after originating a role in one of Nottage's plays at the Guthrie. And he's attempting to attack her credibility any way he can, no matter how spurious, including a "quote" that suggests Nottage is somehow less of a Black woman because she's married to a white man. (So are Suzan-Lori Parks, Jackie Sibblies Drury and Antoinette Nwandu, for what it's worth.) If I were Ms. Day, I'd think it wise to distance myself from this character. | |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 06:50 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - AC126748 12:03 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
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| I agree with you that he's attacking her credibility and that it's disgusting, but surely you also know that the questioning of black people who marry white people is not uncommon within the black community. To the extent that Grissom's columns have become a place for people to air all of their dirty laundry and prejudicial thoughts, he's simply allowing a wider audience to read a strain of thought that tends to stay hidden. This attack on her Blackness isn't unique to Grissom, and I was less surprised than others that he printed it, because I've heard similar thoughts expressed over the past few years by a handful of my Black colleagues and friends. | |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 08:43 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - Singapore/Fling 06:50 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
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| I have also heard many racist, misogynist, and other bigoted views spoken. So I should include them in my writing so that others can see see what is otherwise hidden? This is the weirdest defense of disseminating bigotry that I have ever heard. |
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| re: Here's a link | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 08:57 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Here's a link - whereismikeyfl 08:43 pm EDT 06/29/20 | |
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| It would be a weird defense indeed, if it were a defense. Fortunately, it's not. One can contextualize the quote that Grissom used (which I will presume is not made up) without defending his use of it. | |
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