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| I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater | |
| Last Edit: Teacher64 11:04 pm EDT 07/03/20 | |
| Posted by: Teacher64 10:58 pm EDT 07/03/20 | |
| In reply to: Hamilton - Diction...DICTION!!! - Genealley 09:06 pm EDT 07/03/20 | |
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| This is the problem, I believe, with rap music in musical theater. Lyrics from a song have to land on your ear and then your brain has to process them. That might take a quarter of a second or so for most people. But with rap, by the time the lyrics have been processed by your brain the next set of lyrics have already been sung and your behind them. It really wasn't so much a diction problem, it's just that rap doesn't really work well with a musical theater piece. And the other problem I had with HAMILTON was that there was a lot of exposition in those lyrics; "First he did this, then he did that, then this happened and then that". The combination of the two (rap music and all that exposition) made HAMILTON incomprehensible for me in the theater. I am planning on watching it this weekend; with the Closed Captioning on. | |
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| re: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater | |
| Posted by: StageDoorJohnny 11:35 am EDT 07/05/20 | |
| In reply to: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater - Teacher64 10:58 pm EDT 07/03/20 | |
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| I'm an old fart. A traditional 'musical' lover and performer, but I followed the broadcast (no captioning) as well as I did the first time I saw Sweeney Todd live. I had no problem following the story, but I had to LISTEN, something we do less and less in the theater. I think there are a lot of older theater goers who go into the show expecting to not like it because it's 'rap,' but I found most of it no stranger than good patter songs. How many opening night (pre-recording) audiences understood all the lyrics to 'Rock Island' in Music Man, I wonder | |
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| re: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater | |
| Posted by: ryhog 02:01 pm EDT 07/05/20 | |
| In reply to: re: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater - StageDoorJohnny 11:35 am EDT 07/05/20 | |
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| Paraphrasing what one of my most cherished mentors told me years ago, and channeling it through George Washington a la Hamilton, hearing is easy, young man, listening is harder. | |
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| re: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 04:41 pm EDT 07/04/20 | |
| In reply to: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater - Teacher64 10:58 pm EDT 07/03/20 | |
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| You've articulated the problem with rap music in musical theater *for you*. For others, rap is as easy to listen to as any other poetry. You just don't have the practice of listening to rap/hip-hop. I'd suggest spending some time with Kanye to increase your listening comprehension skills. | |
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| re: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater | |
| Posted by: ryhog 05:45 pm EDT 07/04/20 | |
| In reply to: re: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater - Singapore/Fling 04:41 pm EDT 07/04/20 | |
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| I wouldn't go quite that far. I think all of us have music that we love/like/dislike/hate. I don't think any amount of training is going to drag those at the lower end of that continuum in relation to hip hop or rap music to "enlightenment" [:-)] any more that the large swath of people who hate so-called musical theatre music are not going to continue zoning out on it despite the best efforts of anyone. The fact is that we now have parts of at least three generations for whom hip hop is the soundtrack of their lives. | |
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| re: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater | |
| Last Edit: Singapore/Fling 06:44 pm EDT 07/04/20 | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 06:43 pm EDT 07/04/20 | |
| In reply to: re: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater - ryhog 05:45 pm EDT 07/04/20 | |
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| I think we're talking about different things. I'm not suggesting that Teacher put in the work to *appreciate* hip hop, because their complaint was based on comprehension, rather than enjoyment. If they're serious about the barrier to entry being able to follow the words, then they can take steps to learn to listen better. | |
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| re: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater | |
| Posted by: andyboy 10:40 am EDT 07/04/20 | |
| In reply to: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater - Teacher64 10:58 pm EDT 07/03/20 | |
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| Yes, the exposition THAT IS NOT COUCHED IN CONFLICT and is simply reportage is tough to stay tuned in to no matter what the musical genre, and I'm afraid HAMILTON has much. | |
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| re: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 11:43 pm EDT 07/03/20 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 11:39 pm EDT 07/03/20 | |
| In reply to: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater - Teacher64 10:58 pm EDT 07/03/20 | |
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| I would guarantee that none of us, hearing "Ya Got Trouble" or "Getting Married Today" or "Franklin Shepard, Inc" or "Model Behavior" or "Handful Of Keys" or "I'll Show You A Thing or Two" or "If You Han't But You Did" etc etc got all the lyrics on the first listen either. You get the gist of it (sometimes you get more of it at first, sometimes less), and the more you hear it, the more you pick up. It's not just about current rap music - it can easily apply to any wordy, patter-type song. | |
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| re: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater | |
| Posted by: mikem 11:03 pm EDT 07/04/20 | |
| In reply to: re: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater - Chromolume 11:39 pm EDT 07/03/20 | |
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| This is an interesting article looking at words per minute for cast albums of various musicals. Hamilton has about twice as many words per minute as the others. The article also looks at specific fast portions, and finds Getting Married Today and Guns and Ships (the fastest part of Hamilton) are very close. The author gives the "speed prize" to Getting Married Today, because the fast portion is longer. The fastest portion of Satisfied isn't that far behind. Renee Elise Goldsberry is so good at what she does, though, that every word is crystal clear. |
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| Link | https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/hamilton-is-the-very-model-of-a-modern-fast-paced-musical/ |
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| re: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater | |
| Posted by: ryhog 12:34 am EDT 07/04/20 | |
| In reply to: re: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater - Chromolume 11:39 pm EDT 07/03/20 | |
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| There is another thing that I noticed which is a little interesting to me. Many of the people who claim to have trouble making out the lyrics in Hamilton are also fans of opera. How many of them understand everything being sung on first (or second, or third, or last) encounter? I have been going to the opera for over fifty years (yes I was a nursing baby!) and I don't. | |
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| re: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater | |
| Posted by: Teacher64 11:48 pm EDT 07/03/20 | |
| In reply to: re: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater - Chromolume 11:39 pm EDT 07/03/20 | |
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| A patter song is one song and tends to be comical, not necessarily geared towards plot exposition. If a large amount of numbers in a musical were patter songs, that might be problematic. | |
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| re: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater | |
| Posted by: ryhog 12:27 am EDT 07/04/20 | |
| In reply to: re: I had a problem with the lyrics in the theater - Teacher64 11:48 pm EDT 07/03/20 | |
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| Out of curiosity, could you take a couple of minutes and list the songs in Hamilton that you are describing as rap? | |
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