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| Not to be obvious, but.... | |
| Posted by: Quicheo 05:14 pm EDT 07/29/20 | |
| In reply to: I'm confused. Does anyone actually WANT to see opera stars perform musicals? - GrumpyMorningBoy 01:00 pm EDT 07/29/20 | |
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| ...I think they are called "Opera Fans". And many are people who value purity of sound and musical dramatics over the qualities that many on this board would deem necessary for a credible stage performance. I think Opera has more in common with Dance in that although aesthetics and emotion are clearly still in play, they are both also rated and admired on technical purity above all else. The West Side Story travesty? Sold a ton of units and didn't hurt either leads careers. Bryn Terfel? Not only did people want him to sing Sweeney, but they staged THREE different productions for him to do it on record and they only stopped once he was well enough to show up. Sometimes, as mentioned below, it all comes together in someone who has technical chops and an acting talent -- Paulo Szot (have you seen the recent Mass???) and Renee Fleming both acquitted themselves just fine in recent productions -- and from the Dance world, the Fairchilds are both quite something. But as fans, I think theater fans are looking at a different order of essential criteria of excellence when seeing something on stage. |
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| if you can't act a role, I don't care how well you sing it | |
| Last Edit: GrumpyMorningBoy 10:01 pm EDT 07/29/20 | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 10:00 pm EDT 07/29/20 | |
| In reply to: Not to be obvious, but.... - Quicheo 05:14 pm EDT 07/29/20 | |
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| I could have said so, but I'm not quibbling with roles that nearly require operatic training, the way that Tony in THE MOST HAPPY FELLA or Johanna in SWEENEY do. And there are plenty more -- like Nellie in CAROUSEL or Mother Abbess in THE SOUND OF MUSIC -- where the acting requirements are so minimal that you really ought to just cast the most spectacular voice you can. I thought Paulo Szot was pretty darn terrific in the SOUTH PACIFIC revival. And it was lovely to hear that Renee Fleming could do in the last CAROUSEL. I still hold that most operatic voices don't properly serve most musical theater repertoire. And I'll say the inverse, as well. As much as I want to hear a musical theatre voice on a role like Sportin' Life, I will happily entertain anyone who wants to say that the PORGY & BESS adaptation for Broadway didn't properly serve Gershwin's composition. I'm sure that if any performing arts mailing list includes people who love opera as much as people who love theater, it's the mailing list of Lincoln Center. But hot damn, if you can't act a role, I don't care how well you sing it. - GMB |
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| re: if you can't act a role, I don't care how well you sing it | |
| Posted by: Quicheo 11:06 am EDT 07/30/20 | |
| In reply to: if you can't act a role, I don't care how well you sing it - GrumpyMorningBoy 10:00 pm EDT 07/29/20 | |
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| "if you can't act a role, I don't care how well you sing it" -- theater fan "if you can't sing a role, I don't care how well you act it" -- opera fan "it depends" -- the huge continuum between the extremes of the two above (And I fully agree that most musical theater roles are not written for Opera voices and vice versa. And yet, the occasional cross-over successes delight like a just as improbable lightening strike.) |
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| re: if you can't act a role, I don't care how well you sing it | |
| Posted by: Snowysdad 11:45 pm EDT 07/29/20 | |
| In reply to: if you can't act a role, I don't care how well you sing it - GrumpyMorningBoy 10:00 pm EDT 07/29/20 | |
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| Maybe I haven't been as clear as I wished to be. Opera is not musicals and musicals are not Opera. Years ago the difference between voices trained for one or the other was not as great as it is now but it was always there. RCA released a 2 LP of selections from all of Lerner and Lowe's major successes. Stars were Robert Merrill, Jan Peerce and Jane Powell (sort of a popular voice but sort of operatic as well). Oy what a mess. Merrill and his brother in law Peerce had no business in this repertory. Not only could they have never acted the parts, they couldn't sing them with proper style. I once saw and reviewed a production of Into the Woods done by an opera company. Now ITW is probably Sondheim's least operatic score, its many vocal threads need mics to sort them out and keep them clear. I didn't even mention cast members by name because they were so completely miscast. Here you are absolutely correct, no one in his or her right mind would want to hear opera voices do that show, nor Company. | |
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| re: if you can't act a role, I don't care how well you sing it | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 04:16 am EDT 07/31/20 | |
| In reply to: re: if you can't act a role, I don't care how well you sing it - Snowysdad 11:45 pm EDT 07/29/20 | |
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| I think that Merrill and, to a lesser degree, Peerce do rather well for that kind of recording. It's not meant to be a cast recording, it's not meant to be theatrical. Even though Merrill was never considered much of an actor in opera, I think he had a better feel than most opera singers for American popular music. In fact, there are times when I'm really surprised at how well he lightens his approach on that recording. Unfortunately, he's also prone to some sloppiness, and extra takes might have been helpful on a couple of the songs he sings. His final consonants sometimes virtually disappear. Despite that, I am impressed with how well he does generally. If not for the awful chorus, his "They Call the Wind Maria" would rival the best. And on "The Heather on the Hill" in particular he also lightens his voice very well, not oversinging, letting the words come through with simplicity. Btw, Richard Tucker was Peerce's brother-in-law. |
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| re: if you can't act a role, I don't care how well you sing it | |
| Posted by: Quicheo 11:15 am EDT 07/30/20 | |
| In reply to: re: if you can't act a role, I don't care how well you sing it - Snowysdad 11:45 pm EDT 07/29/20 | |
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| Oy indeed. Thank you for your expertise and reportage in this thread. It seems to me that Into the Woods depends so much on the different styles in which each character sings that an operatic voice in each role would erase that essential distinction. And the fudging of casting verisimilitude common in opera would add another level of disaster. That said, clearly some opera companies have had good success with Sweeney Todd, Pacific Overtures, and A Little Night Music, all of which seem more closer cousins to opera rep than Company or Into the Woods are. |
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| re: Not to be obvious, but.... | |
| Posted by: Snowysdad 07:40 pm EDT 07/29/20 | |
| In reply to: Not to be obvious, but.... - Quicheo 05:14 pm EDT 07/29/20 | |
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| Can't agree with you about Szot in MASS. His vocal take on it was interesting but to start with he is/was too old. I went in with an open mind but could not wrap myself around a middle aged celebrant, the emotional arc is so clearly from young/naive to older/wiser. MASS is one of my favorite works of all time, I am familiar with all the recordings. Alan Titus on the original is the best, Jubuliant Sykes my second favorite and the guy whose name won't come to me on Jaerve's recording is good. Jerry Hadley is a train wreck from start to finish, partly for the same reason to Szot flounders. | |
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