Threaded Order Chronological Order
| re: CAMELOT | |
| Posted by: Snowysdad 01:20 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
| In reply to: CAMELOT - AnObserver 10:55 am EDT 08/04/20 | |
|
|
|
| Why doesn't it work? The book? 1. The score: a mixed bag, some really lovely songs(The title tune, Before I gaze at You Again, I Loved You Once in Silence, How to Handle a Woman) mixed in with some that are second rate (Entry songs for both Arthur and Guinevere, The Seven Deadly Virtues, Fie on Goodness). 2. The book: It does not keep its eye on the arc from where the story starts to where it ends for catharsis, and therefore meanders losing focus. Also most of the secondary characters beyond the principal trio are never adequately fleshed out giving them life. I have never had a clue who Mordrid and Pellinore are in relationship to the lead characters, and that's just an example. 3. The brilliance of T.H. White's novel is its scope, the epic story it tells and the musical just can't reduce it enough to engage. Much the same problem as trying to make Gone with the Wind into a musical. My Fair Lady it ain't! |
|
| reply to this message |
| re: CAMELOT "lovely Songs" | |
| Posted by: claploudly 04:01 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
| In reply to: re: CAMELOT - Snowysdad 01:20 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
|
|
|
| But you don't even include one of Broadway's most famous and lovely songs "If Ever I Would Leave You"? | |
| reply to this message |
| re: CAMELOT "lovely Songs" | |
| Posted by: Snowysdad 10:53 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
| In reply to: re: CAMELOT "lovely Songs" - claploudly 04:01 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
|
|
|
| You are right......................MY VERY BAD!! | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: CAMELOT "lovely Songs" | |
| Posted by: AnObserver 04:05 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
| In reply to: re: CAMELOT "lovely Songs" - claploudly 04:01 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
|
|
|
| And "If Ever I Would Leave You' won Best Song at the Golden Globes! Ha! Shows how not on top of things that organization was then. See link. | |
| Link | https://www.goldenglobes.com/film/camelot |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: CAMELOT "lovely Songs" | |
| Last Edit: WaymanWong 03:50 am EDT 08/05/20 | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 03:48 am EDT 08/05/20 | |
| In reply to: re: CAMELOT "lovely Songs" - AnObserver 04:05 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
|
|
|
| The Golden Globes apparently had different criteria than the Oscars. The Globes also gave an award to Loewe for Original Score. However, at the Oscars, when ''Camelot'' won Original Song or Adaptation Score, the prize went to Alfred Newman and Ken Darby. P.S. As much as I love the title tune and ''If Ever I Would Leave You,'' my favorite underrated gem here is ''Before I Gaze at You Again.'' |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: CAMELOT "lovely Songs" | |
| Posted by: keikekaze 04:45 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
| In reply to: re: CAMELOT "lovely Songs" - AnObserver 04:05 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
|
|
|
| Actually, the best song in Camelot, if you add melodic appeal and thematic importance together, is "Follow Me." It's the only one that gives me the feeling that I've enetered a semi-mythical, semi-legendary time and place where something magical might actually happen. But the fact thet we've now mentioned some half-dozen songs from Camelot that are wonderful tells us that the score is not the problem. (In a Broadway musical, it almost never is.) The problem is that there is simply too much going on in the four volumes of The Once and Future King to make complete sense out of in one evening. Given the time constraints, many important plot or character elements have to be skipped or slighted. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| "Follow Me" versus "I Loved You Once in Silence" | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 09:28 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
| In reply to: re: CAMELOT "lovely Songs" - keikekaze 04:45 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
|
|
|
| I'm a bit lucky, in that I listened to / grew fond of CAMELOT when I was still awfully young, and too young to appreciate what made for a good musical versus an almost good one. And such, that score has a lot of affection in my mind. And I have to agree that "Follow Me" is the true gem of the composition. It's the melody that most often just sneaks into my head. But in terms of the match of song to lyric, "I Loved You Once in Silence" really is top-drawer Lerner & Loewe. Those chromatics lend so much regret to the longing, especially the third note on a phrase like "and now there's twice as much grief..." Just really, really nice. Those boys could really write a song. - GMB |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: "Follow Me" versus "I Loved You Once in Silence" | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:48 am EDT 08/05/20 | |
| In reply to: "Follow Me" versus "I Loved You Once in Silence" - GrumpyMorningBoy 09:28 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
|
|
|
| "I'm a bit lucky, in that I listened to / grew fond of CAMELOT when I was still awfully young, and too young to appreciate what made for a good musical versus an almost good one". I know exactly what you mean. But also, I do think that the score of the show is FAR superior overall to the book, so if we're talking mostly about listening to the cast album, that would partly explain our very positive reaction. We didn't have to endure all those pages and pages of mostly bad dialogue. Plus, I would say that even the flaws in the score itself -- or rather specifically in Lerner's lyrics, because I think the music is great throughout -- don't matter quite so much out of context. For example, Guenevere's immaturity, selfishness, and her lack of comprehension of the realities of war, violence, which we've discussed elsewhere in this thread. Re "Follow Me" and "I Loved You Once in Silence": I'm not a fan of the movie of CAMELOT, but I do think they did a nice job with the arrangements, orchestration, and performance of those songs. In particular, the film arrangement of "Follow Me" for a chorus including children is quite beautiful. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: "Follow Me" versus "I Loved You Once in Silence" | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 10:39 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
| In reply to: "Follow Me" versus "I Loved You Once in Silence" - GrumpyMorningBoy 09:28 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
|
|
|
| I have to agree about "I Loved You Once In Silence" - brilliant song, in terms of both music and lyrics. I also really love "Fie On Goodness," which Snowysdad finds "second rate." The newly scaled-down version of the show that was mentioned earlier does restore that song and also "Then You May Take Me To The Fair," which both are very welcome. (Though it should be said that "Follow Me," along with all the magical/fantastical elements of the original plot, goes missing.) |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: "Follow Me" versus "I Loved You Once in Silence" | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:51 am EDT 08/05/20 | |
| In reply to: re: "Follow Me" versus "I Loved You Once in Silence" - Chromolume 10:39 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
|
|
|
| ***I also really love "Fie On Goodness," which Snowysdad finds "second rate." The newly scaled-down version of the show that was mentioned earlier does restore that song and also "Then You May Take Me To The Fair," which both are very welcome.*** I liked the restoration of "Fie on Goodness," but I wish they had left out "Then You May Take Me to the Fair," for reasons I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: CAMELOT "lovely Songs" | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 05:28 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
| In reply to: re: CAMELOT "lovely Songs" - keikekaze 04:45 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
|
|
|
| "The problem is that there is simply too much going on in the four volumes of The Once and Future King to make complete sense out of in one evening." Agreed, but I think the main problem is the wildly shifting tone of Lerner's book for the musical, not so much the amount of territory it tries to cover. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: CAMELOT "lovely Songs" | |
| Posted by: keikekaze 06:38 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
| In reply to: re: CAMELOT "lovely Songs" - Michael_Portantiere 05:28 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
|
|
|
| Yes, that too. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: CAMELOT | |
| Posted by: AnObserver 01:26 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
| In reply to: re: CAMELOT - Snowysdad 01:20 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
|
|
|
| Well, Mordred is the bastard son who turns out to be the villain of the piece. And Pellinore gives Arthur someone to talk to, like Higgins' friend in My Fair Lady. I forget the character's name. I'm not much of a MFL fan, except for the songs and the original play, of course. But, you're right, it's easier to fit into a stage musical. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| Colonel Pickering | |
| Last Edit: TheOtherOne 04:42 am EDT 08/05/20 | |
| Posted by: TheOtherOne 04:42 am EDT 08/05/20 | |
| In reply to: re: CAMELOT - AnObserver 01:26 pm EDT 08/04/20 | |
|
|
|
| "And Pellinore gives Arthur someone to talk to, like Higgins' friend in My Fair Lady. I forget the character's name." | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
Time to render: 0.048685 seconds.