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| On a related note, thoughts/questions about the lyrics of two songs in CAMELOT | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:57 am EDT 08/05/20 | |
| In reply to: CAMELOT - AnObserver 10:55 am EDT 08/04/20 | |
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| 1) When, in the title song, Arthur sings "those are the legal laws".....what are we to make of that? Is it conceivable that Lerner didn't realize what a glaring redundancy that is? The only other explanation would be that Arthur is trying to be clever and humorous with an intentional redundancy, but I for one don't find it clever or humorous. 2) Why do we suppose that Lerner changed the compelling lyrics "Oh, they found Guenevere with her bold cavalier..." to the prosaic, dull "Out the room, down the hall, through the yard, to the wall....?" |
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| re: On a related note, thoughts/questions about the lyrics of two songs in CAMELOT | |
| Posted by: pagates 10:58 am EDT 08/06/20 | |
| In reply to: On a related note, thoughts/questions about the lyrics of two songs in CAMELOT - Michael_Portantiere 11:57 am EDT 08/05/20 | |
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| My thought has always been that Mr. Lerner is making the point that these are "legal" and not "natural" laws in order to allow Arthur to emphasize his importance in the scheme of things in Camelot. All of the laws adduced apply to natural phenomena over which the king in most worlds doesn't have authority. "Regal" would work here to be sure, but the redundancy brings the point more directly to the hearer's attention. I can imagine it slipping by if regal were used. | |
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| re: On a related note, thoughts/questions about the lyrics of two songs in CAMELOT | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 02:02 pm EDT 08/06/20 | |
| In reply to: re: On a related note, thoughts/questions about the lyrics of two songs in CAMELOT - pagates 10:58 am EDT 08/06/20 | |
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| That's an interesting way of looking at it, but "legal laws" is still redundant, even if Arthur's meaning is as you suggest. It should instead be something like "Those are the laws as ordained by royal decree," which I believe is actually how he phrases it in a spoken line right before the song starts. | |
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| re: On a related note, thoughts/questions about the lyrics of two songs in CAMELOT | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 07:17 pm EDT 08/06/20 | |
| In reply to: re: On a related note, thoughts/questions about the lyrics of two songs in CAMELOT - Michael_Portantiere 02:02 pm EDT 08/06/20 | |
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| I regard “legal laws” as one of those show tunes that most annoys me. Laura, grumpy and pedantic to the end |
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| re: On a related note, thoughts/questions about the lyrics of two songs in CAMELOT | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 06:13 pm EDT 08/05/20 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 06:12 pm EDT 08/05/20 | |
| In reply to: On a related note, thoughts/questions about the lyrics of two songs in CAMELOT - Michael_Portantiere 11:57 am EDT 08/05/20 | |
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| I'm sure the phrase legal laws is intentionally redundant. Lerner is trying to be funny and Arthur is trying to be charming or whimsical. All the things that Arthur lists, e.g., /A law was made a distant moon ago here:/ July and August cannot be too hot/, are obviously not real laws, they are wishes or fantasies. By saying legal laws, he's doubling down on the whimsy. Obviously what is funny is very subjective, but whenever I hear the line, it makes me smile (at least) and sometimes actually laugh. |
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| re: On a related note, thoughts/questions about the lyrics of two songs in CAMELOT | |
| Posted by: peter3053 03:06 pm EDT 08/05/20 | |
| In reply to: On a related note, thoughts/questions about the lyrics of two songs in CAMELOT - Michael_Portantiere 11:57 am EDT 08/05/20 | |
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| The "legal laws" line definitely has redundancy. He should have written "Those are the regal laws", which would work (to a degree...except that the laws of nature wouldn't have stemmed from the king, except by magic possibly worked at his command). I think the line about the "bold cavalier" was written for the abridged album version, to work as a song out of context; as I recall from the libretto, the onstage version was always "Out the room..." etc. Hope that helps. |
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| re: On a related note, thoughts/questions about the lyrics of two songs in CAMELOT | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 03:58 pm EDT 08/05/20 | |
| In reply to: re: On a related note, thoughts/questions about the lyrics of two songs in CAMELOT - peter3053 03:06 pm EDT 08/05/20 | |
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| Thanks. I had thought of "regal laws" as an alternative, but as you say, that doesn't really work, either. Anyway, do you think it's possible Lerner didn't realize what a howling redundancy "legal laws" is, or was that an attempt at humor? I guess we'll never know.... And that's very interesting what you wrote about "bold cavalier." The full version of that section of the lyrics in the score and then on the cast album are as follows: "Out the room, down the hall, Through the yard, to the wall, Slashing fiercely, left and right, Lance escaped them and took flight." "Oh, they found Guenevere With her bold cavalier, And as swords rang through the hall, Lance escaped them, one and all." I suppose the latter version is clearer out of context, when heard on a cast album, because in the score version, we're not actually told what he's escaping from. Whatever, I do like the "bold cavalier" version must better. |
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| re: On a related note, thoughts/questions about the lyrics of two songs in CAMELOT | |
| Posted by: peter3053 03:11 pm EDT 08/06/20 | |
| In reply to: re: On a related note, thoughts/questions about the lyrics of two songs in CAMELOT - Michael_Portantiere 03:58 pm EDT 08/05/20 | |
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| Yes, and the singer on the album who does the "bold cavalier" line is superb! I actually love the tragic scope of "Camelot" and forgive the show for its shortcomings because of it, but the story-telling is somewhat lumpy. |
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| re: On a related note, thoughts/questions about the lyrics of two songs in CAMELOT | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 01:58 pm EDT 08/07/20 | |
| In reply to: re: On a related note, thoughts/questions about the lyrics of two songs in CAMELOT - peter3053 03:11 pm EDT 08/06/20 | |
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| ***Yes, and the singer on the album who does the "bold cavalier" line is superb!*** That's Bruce Yarnell, most well known for having gone on to be Ethel Merman's leading man in the 1966 Music Theater of Lincoln Center production of ANNIE GET YOUR GUN (and on the great cast recording of that production). |
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