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| re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 12:52 am EDT 08/11/20 | |
| In reply to: re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway - AlanScott 11:09 pm EDT 08/10/20 | |
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| In reading it, I do have to say there was a lot I didn't know - or didn't THINK I knew...maybe some of that was what was wrong? | |
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| re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway | |
| Last Edit: AlanScott 11:29 am EDT 08/11/20 | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 11:27 am EDT 08/11/20 | |
| In reply to: re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway - Chromolume 12:52 am EDT 08/11/20 | |
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| If you scroll down to read the comments, you'll find several from me, although under a username you may not recognize as me. I didn't even mention everything I saw that was wrong, and I missed something because I didn't even really read the sentence in which Annie is included among Strouse-Adams shows. Certain things should have raised a red flag with any editor who read it carefully. Would Hal Prince have sold $12 tickets for $2 to people who bought tickets by mail? And the crazy thing is that the Times article that is the source for that misinformation in the Vulture article is linked, and that's not what the Times article says. I see this too many places: a source is given for something, and then you go to the source and you find that the source doesn't say what the book or article says. The author of the book or article has read the source sloppily. In this case, I had read that Times article before and other articles on Prince's pricing and ticket-selling strategies for the show. |
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| re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:59 am EDT 08/11/20 | |
| In reply to: re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway - AlanScott 11:27 am EDT 08/11/20 | |
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| "Certain things should have raised a red flag with any editor who read it carefully. Would Hal Prince have sold $12 tickets for $2 to people who bought tickets by mail? And the crazy thing is that the Times article that is the source for that misinformation in the Vulture article is linked, and that's not what the Times article says." Thanks, I didn't think that sounded right! |
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| re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway | |
| Posted by: owk 12:16 am EDT 08/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway - Michael_Portantiere 11:59 am EDT 08/11/20 | |
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| Inaccuracies aside, it must have taken an extraordinary amount of naïveté to think that the Dallas theater production could take such liberties with long-standing copyrighted and trademarked characters without permission from the holders of the copyrights and trademarks. Even if the artists thought it was ok and the authors of the original show didn't object some managing director or the theater's attorney or SOMEONE should have raised a red flag. I didn't see the production and perhaps it was great, but the business side was certainly sloppily handled. | |
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| re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway | |
| Last Edit: AlanScott 02:58 pm EDT 08/12/20 | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 02:55 pm EDT 08/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway - owk 12:16 am EDT 08/12/20 | |
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| I and some friends have been discussing that on Facebook, including a friend who used to work for DC, and I think it may have been discussed here way back. It's utterly bizarre that no one involved thought they might need permission from DC to do that, especially since Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa has a background writing comic books. And it's not just Aguirre-Sacasa, of course. How could DTC not have realized that perhaps they needed to check with DC? And how could none of the three surviving original writers who had gone through the original negotiations with DC not have realized this? The article should have brought this up. Changing the subject to something else that I didn't mention in my comments on the Vulture page (because this is a matter of perception, not facts) is this: "She [Lois] is, to put it mildly, a bit of a sap, deprived of all agency, who belts out 'What I’ve Always Wanted,' an homage to domestic tranquillity that is anti-matter to the then-nascent women’s-lib movement." Well, I did comment on the "belt" description on Vulture, but what I didn't say is this: The song is clearly tongue-in-cheek. Not that Lois is being satirical, but the song is making fun of the sentiments expressed by Lois. If there weren't any other tip-offs, the use of the word conformity should be the tip-off to anyone who understands what the word signified in the mid-1960s. Of course, Patricia Marand rightly sang it with seemingly complete sincerity (except perhaps just a hint of mockery on "conformity"), and Eddie Sauter smartly orchestrated it as if it was meant to be taken at face value, but the satirical intent is clear. Of course, the author is correct that the song's sentiments would have been "anti-matter to the then-nascent women’s-lib movement," but he gives no indication of understanding that the authors were not endorsing such sentiments. Indeed, he seems to think that the song was meant to be taken at face value. |
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| re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 04:56 pm EDT 08/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway - AlanScott 02:55 pm EDT 08/12/20 | |
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| "The song is clearly tongue-in-cheek. Not that Lois is being satirical, but the song is making fun of the sentiments expressed by Lois." "Of course, the author is correct that the song's sentiments would have been 'anti-matter to the then-nascent women’s-lib movement,' but he gives no indication of understanding that the authors were not endorsing such sentiments. Indeed, he seems to think that the song was meant to be taken at face value." Yes. The same might be said of "Happy to Keep His Dinner Warm" from HOW TO SUCCEED. It always surprises me that some people take that song at face value, without realizing what seems to me the clearly satirical intent. On the other hand, to play devil's advocate for a moment: Maybe part of the point here is that Lois Lane, as a career woman, SHOULD have more agency as a character in the SUPERMAN musical, if we are to care for her rather than discount her. I think Rosemary in HOW TO SUCCEED is a different case, since she's supposed to represent women of the time who became secretaries not as a career choice but to work for a bit before getting married and raising a family, and perhaps even to marry a man they hope to meet at the workplace. |
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| re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 06:12 pm EDT 08/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway - Michael_Portantiere 04:56 pm EDT 08/12/20 | |
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| I almost included the same basic thought. If the author had wanted to say that, and had it said as you do, and as I would have, it would have been fine. If he had something like, "Perhaps the show would have seemed more refreshing and interesting had Lois been written as a stronger and more independent woman." But he just doesn't seem to get that the song is tongue-in-cheek. Truth is that Prince himself said that he realized only after it closed that Superman might have been a more interesting show had it commented seriously on contemporary life. The show seems to have struck even the critics who liked it as fun but disposable. Even the relatively few fully favorable reviews did not make it sound like something you needed to see. But just now reading some of the reviews of the DTC revisal gave the same feeling: it's fun but so light it might fly away like Superman. Something you might enjoy but nothing you really need to see. |
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| re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:16 pm EDT 08/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway - AlanScott 06:12 pm EDT 08/12/20 | |
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| ***I almost included the same basic thought. If the author had wanted to say that, and had it said as you do, and as I would have, it would have been fine. If he had something like, "Perhaps the show would have seemed more refreshing and interesting had Lois been written as a stronger and more independent woman." But he just doesn't seem to get that the song is tongue-in-cheek.*** Agreed. |
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| re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 06:20 pm EDT 08/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway - AlanScott 06:12 pm EDT 08/12/20 | |
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| I also can't help but think that Sydney, not Lois, gets the better songs. (I love "Ooh, Do You Love You" even more that "Possbilities.") Lois' material is nice, and I do love the duet she has with Jim, but I think Sydney still walks off with the star turns. It would have been good to have Lois be a more memorable/stronger character all around. And it is too bad in general about the rights to the other DC comics characters. It's the only comic strip musical I can think of that doesn't really depend on the original characters and settings. It would be like taking Charlie Brown and Lucy and surrounding them with a bunch of other kids we're not familiar with at all, and yet calling the musical "Charlie Brown." |
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| re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 07:24 pm EDT 08/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway - Chromolume 06:20 pm EDT 08/12/20 | |
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| I think I've posted here about it seeming to me when I saw the show as an 8-year-old in May 1966 that "Ooh, Do You Love You!" got a really big response, more than "You've Got Possibilities." I like Lois's songs, except that they have too much of Lee Adams's penchant for rhyming the final syllables of three-syllable words. I remember Patricia Marand getting a nice laugh with "A guy with both feet on the ground." I hope this isn't just my imagination but there's no way for me to go back and check. :) But it is an odd show. Jack Cassidy as Max Menken got star billing, and that caused problems, according to Prince. Cassidy really didn't like it when his role started to get cut down after they opened badly in Philadelphia. They were cutting generally, but Cassidy kept suggesting new lines to replace the ones that were being cut and doing this in front of the cast, forcing Prince to say no in front of everyone. Which didn't stop Cassidy, who kept doing it (according to Prince). The actress originally cast as Lois, Joan Hotchkiss, was fired in Philadelphia, although nothing negative was said about her in any of the reviews I can find. When Prince revised and updated Contradictions as Sense of Occasion, he added later thoughts to the original chapters, putting those additions at the ends of the original chapters. One of the additions that struck me as strange was this: "I chose Patricia Marand as Lois Lane, and it was pluperfect casting." Strange just because she wasn't his first choice (or I assume she wasn't, although I suppose it's possible that they asked her and she wasn't available, and then she became available and they fired Hotchkiss). Anyway, Prince loved Linda Lavin's talent. With Max Menken getting star billing, and the show having two comic villains and being geared to comedy, it made sense to have those two numbers there (given Lavin's relationship with Max), and of course they were crowd-pleasers. Lavin was already favored by Prince, who kept giving her small bits when he took over A Family Affair, which seems to have been somewhat resented by some in the company. (I base that last on what a member of the company said at a talkback when Mufti did A Family Affair.) Lavin had just gotten raves for The Mad Show, which she left immediately for Superman. She was definitely an up-and-comer. Anyway, between the Philly opening and the Broadway opening they got rid of Lois’s rather lachrymose and self-pitying first song “A Woman Alone” (and Strouse adapted the melody with adjustments in Dance a Little Closer). Lois’s “It’s Superman” is an improvement (and I’m just realizing that this is similar to what had been done with “Lovely” during the Forum tryout). And where she had “I’m Not Finished Yet” was something listed as “I”m Too Young to Die,” which suggests that the lyric was replaced but the music remained the same. So one of her three solos was replaced, and another seems to have been reworked in a way that suggests she was made more defiant and less of a victim. And in a show in which no character is musically dominant, she gets three solos (all of them, admittedly, on the short side) and a duet in which she is equal to her partner and tells him that he’s all wrong about everything. And Patricia Marand was a marvelous singer. God, those orchestrations! No matter how often I listen to the cast recording, I never cease to marvel at them. |
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| re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway | |
| Posted by: owk 12:19 am EDT 08/13/20 | |
| In reply to: re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway - AlanScott 07:24 pm EDT 08/12/20 | |
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| There can never be enough said about the orchestrations, which Encores! restored, much to the pleasure of the audience. To me, "It's Superman" is the most underrated song in the show and completely establishes the intended satirical/bemused tone IF YOU ARE REALLY LISTENING. I think one of the show's principal challenges is that it is drawn in such primary colors that the audience doesn't tend to really listen to the subtleties of the material. Benton, Newman, and Adams were all working in a very mid-'60s groove, satirizing and celebrating things at the same time. It's a subtler version what Ashman was doing in Little Shop years later. But you have to listen. When the show descends to "It's Super Nice" we're invited to think that it's just Hullabaloo and a comic book. It has so much more to offer, but the tone doesn't really announce itself clearly enough for a typical audience to get it. And sometimes the show doesn't help. Still, a favorite of mine. | |
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| re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 07:42 pm EDT 08/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway - AlanScott 07:24 pm EDT 08/12/20 | |
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| God, those orchestrations! No matter how often I listen to the cast recording, I never cease to marvel at them. Yes, they are really wonderful. (I seem to remember a long time ago out here extolling the wonderful quirky wind writing in "We Don't Matter At All" among other things.) It's a shame that the licensed version did so much rearranging - in particular, cutting all the strings and reassigning the most prominent string stuff to winds and brass. Just not the same at all. But it is an odd show. Jack Cassidy as Max Menken got star billing, and that caused problems, according to Prince. Yes - among other things, having a show ostensibly about Superman with an unknown character getting top billing instead of Clark/Superman does seem more than just a little crazy. ;-) Though it's also always been funny to me that Cassidy is essentially playing Kodaly again, just in a different setting. ;-) |
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| re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 08:41 pm EDT 08/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway - Chromolume 07:42 pm EDT 08/12/20 | |
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| He became typecast as very narcissistic characters who were oily and in varying degrees unpleasant, which he could do and make them funny. In between She Loves Me and Superman, there was Fade Out—Fade In. And he also played such characters on TV. I was so used to thinking of him that way that I was very surprised when I heard the Lehman Engel Boys From Syracuse recording. No one sings "The Shortest Day of the Year" and "You Have Cast Your Shadow on the Sea" as tenderly as he does. He hadn't started his career playing those oily characters, but he sure became known for them. | |
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| re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway | |
| Posted by: comedywest 09:48 am EDT 08/12/20 | |
| In reply to: re: When Superman Briefly Flew on Broadway - owk 12:16 am EDT 08/12/20 | |
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| Right...I have had friends at DC Comics, and they tell me that if you so much as drop an "e" out of Jor-El's name without permission, you will be contacted by a lawyer. | |
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