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| re: Randy Rainbow’s old, racist, and transphobic tweets resurface | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 04:59 pm EDT 08/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Randy Rainbow’s old, racist, and transphobic tweets resurface - Michael_Portantiere 04:35 pm EDT 08/19/20 | |
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| To have put any more explicit discussion of racism in the show might have seemed too didactic or slege-hammerish, and perhaps might even been less effective for that reason. I'd agree. Oscar-Hammerish is not sledge-hammerish (even if he did have important socio/political points to make). ;-) |
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| re: Randy Rainbow’s old, racist, and transphobic tweets resurface | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 07:40 pm EDT 08/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Randy Rainbow’s old, racist, and transphobic tweets resurface - Chromolume 04:59 pm EDT 08/19/20 | |
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| "I'd agree. Oscar-Hammerish is not sledge-hammerish (even if he did have important socio/political points to make). ;-)" Yes. I would say that those who were very vocal about their hatred of "You've Got to be Taught" may well have felt the message of the song was laid on with a sledge-hammer, though I assume the only people felt that way hated that message more than the style in which it was delivered :-) |
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| re: Randy Rainbow’s old, racist, and transphobic tweets resurface | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:06 pm EDT 08/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Randy Rainbow’s old, racist, and transphobic tweets resurface - Michael_Portantiere 07:40 pm EDT 08/19/20 | |
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| I once had a very odd but interesting conversation about "Carefully Taught" with a small group of high school students I was teaching. Some of them were saying they felt the song was racist, and I realize that they were hearing the lyric in the opposite way that it was intended, It makes me wonder how many other people have misconstrued the meaning of the song. It all comes down to syntax. Is the lyric "you've GOT to be taught" or is it "you've got to be TAUGHT"? Obviously in context, Hammerstein was going for the latter choice - that racism is taught. But the kids were hearing the "got" as an imperative - as if Cable were advocating being taught that way (you've GOT to be taught to do this). It was the first time I realized the lyric could indeed be heard that way. |
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| re: Randy Rainbow’s old, racist, and transphobic tweets resurface | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:42 am EDT 08/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Randy Rainbow’s old, racist, and transphobic tweets resurface - Chromolume 09:06 pm EDT 08/19/20 | |
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| ****I once had a very odd but interesting conversation about "Carefully Taught" with a small group of high school students I was teaching. Some of them were saying they felt the song was racist, and I realize that they were hearing the lyric in the opposite way that it was intended, It makes me wonder how many other people have misconstrued the meaning of the song. It all comes down to syntax. Is the lyric "you've GOT to be taught" or is it "you've got to be TAUGHT"? Obviously in context, Hammerstein was going for the latter choice - that racism is taught. But the kids were hearing the "got" as an imperative - as if Cable were advocating being taught that way (you've GOT to be taught to do this). It was the first time I realized the lyric could indeed be heard that way.**** That's fascinating. Of course, given the way the lyrics are set to the music, one could say that the words "got" and "taught" are given equal emphasis, so there's really no help there if you feel it's necessary to stress "taught" over "got" (and I understand why you feel that way). My first reaction was that anyone would have to be pretty dense to interpret the song as pro- rather than anti- bigotry, though arguably it might at least partly depend on whether or not the song is experienced in the context of the show. (How did your students experience it?) That said, I remember that when I was very young, there was a public service TV commercial that used a very lovely, lyrical, wistful recording of "Carefully Taught" as sung by a female voice, played behind footage of children of all races playing together, to make the anti-bigotry point. In that case, I had no trouble immediately understanding the meaning of the song outside of the context of SOUTH PACIFIC, though of course I would say the footage and the context of the commercial itself helped greatly. Hey -- I just looked for the commercial on YouTube, and here it is! It was for the NYC Commission on Human Rights. |
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| Link | "You've Got to be Taught" -- NYC Commission on Human Rights TV commercial, 1970 |
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| re: Randy Rainbow’s old, racist, and transphobic tweets resurface | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 11:07 pm EDT 08/19/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Randy Rainbow’s old, racist, and transphobic tweets resurface - Chromolume 09:06 pm EDT 08/19/20 | |
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| A lot of people who hear the song out of context or read the lyrics misunderstand the intent. I have had to explain it many times to young people who assume this song was in favor of "careful teaching." In part it is because they recognize that the music is from "the old days" and they know that there bigotry was pervasive then---so they assume advocating for prejudice would have been acceptable. |
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| re: Randy Rainbow’s old, racist, and transphobic tweets resurface | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:12 pm EDT 08/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Randy Rainbow’s old, racist, and transphobic tweets resurface - whereismikeyfl 11:07 pm EDT 08/19/20 | |
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| *****A lot of people who hear the song out of context or read the lyrics misunderstand the intent. I have had to explain it many times to young people who assume this song was in favor of "careful teaching." In part it is because they recognize that the music is from "the old days" and they know that there bigotry was pervasive then---so they assume advocating for prejudice would have been acceptable.***** I do understand that point, but on the other hand, I would think that many bigoted, racist people don't view their own feelings as "hatred" or "fear." I would hope that the use of those words in "Carefully Taught," and also phrases like "It's got to be drummed in your dear little ear," would make it very clear that the song is meant to be bitterly ironic, that having it "drummed in your dear little ear" that you need to "hate all the people your relatives hate" is being condemned rather than advocated. That said, I have heard the opinion expressed that many young people, in particular, have trouble understanding irony. I'm not sure why this should be true, but maybe it is, and maybe that's a major part of the problem here. |
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| re: Randy Rainbow’s old, racist, and transphobic tweets resurface | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 02:47 pm EDT 08/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Randy Rainbow’s old, racist, and transphobic tweets resurface - Michael_Portantiere 12:12 pm EDT 08/20/20 | |
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| That said, I have heard the opinion expressed that many young people, in particular, have trouble understanding irony. Two words - Alanis. Morissette. ;-) |
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