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| re: Ragtime... for our time | |
| Posted by: manchurch03104 07:56 am EDT 08/27/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Ragtime... for our time - Chromolume 08:59 pm EDT 08/26/20 | |
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| I'm talking about Ahren's statement itself, not the show. That statement comes 100% from a place of white privilege. Ask any person of color how much progress this country has made in 400 years. | |
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| re: Ragtime... for our time | |
| Posted by: huskyital (huskyital@yahoo.com) 02:31 pm EDT 08/27/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Ragtime... for our time - manchurch03104 07:56 am EDT 08/27/20 | |
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| Ridiculous statement......Jackie Robinson was the first African American to make it to major sports. How many now are in baseball, football and basketball? We've come a long way. Obama would not have been elected fifty years ago. Yes there is still much that we can do but we have made a hell of a lot of progress from even 50 years ago. Martin Luther King did not march for nothing. | |
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| re: Ragtime... for our time | |
| Posted by: showtunesoprano 12:17 pm EDT 08/27/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Ragtime... for our time - manchurch03104 07:56 am EDT 08/27/20 | |
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| Is it "white privilege" to be unaware of violence being perpetrated on Black Americans by law enforcement, and vigilantes? I suppose, though I would call it something like "white blindness" or "white ignorance" rather than "white privilege." What Ahrens was saying was that in 1998, white Americans were not aware of this kind of treatment. Therefor, the show depicted a time in the past, with characters/actions that no longer seemed present. In the past 20 years, the advent of cell phones/cameras and social media has shown us that, in fact, "this will happen again, and again, and again" and is still happening. It makes the show more relevant, not less. I was listening to the cast album while driving a few years ago after one of these horrific incidents, and almost had to pull the car over because it was devastating to hear that lyric. | |
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| re: Ragtime... for our time | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 02:41 pm EDT 08/27/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Ragtime... for our time - showtunesoprano 12:17 pm EDT 08/27/20 | |
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| The "blindness" is the privilege. A black person cannot be blind in a similar way without facing danger. A white person faces no danger if he or she is blind--they have the privilege of ignoring certain realities. I think your judgement of Ahrens is much more harsh than calling her comments "classic white privilege." If she indeed "was saying was that in 1998, white Americans were not aware of this kind of treatment. Therefor, the show depicted a time in the past, with characters/actions that no longer seemed present," then she is stating that her work was for white audiences and excluded the perspective of black people. If you really believe that, it is a pretty awful accusation. I am more generous and think it was only classic white privilege and not something more disturbing. |
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| re: Ragtime... for our time | |
| Posted by: showtunesoprano 04:19 pm EDT 08/27/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Ragtime... for our time - whereismikeyfl 02:41 pm EDT 08/27/20 | |
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| I said no such thing, and she said no such thing. Do not put words in our mouths. I was merely trying to understand/interpret how her statement was "classic white privilege" since that accusation did not seem valid to me. But I can agree that blindness=privilege, so I understand it now. And I believe I expanded on her original statement quite accurately, considering I did watch the original source. | |
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| re: Ragtime... for our time | |
| Last Edit: whereismikeyfl 07:58 am EDT 08/28/20 | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 07:57 am EDT 08/28/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Ragtime... for our time - showtunesoprano 04:19 pm EDT 08/27/20 | |
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| re: Ragtime... for our time | |
| Posted by: portenopete 11:53 am EDT 08/27/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Ragtime... for our time - manchurch03104 07:56 am EDT 08/27/20 | |
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| I've been seeing a LOT of black Republicans at the RNCC this week. I suspect if I asked them they'd say America has made HUGE strides forward. Just because our politics don't align, are their voices unworthy of being unheard? Without for aa second forgetting that there is still so much work to do, it's idiotic to say that Emancipation and the Civil Rights Act did nothing to further the cause of black people in American society. The fact that amongst much of the BIPOC academic mafia and cognoscenti, one of the main topics of discussion is micro aggression. Something tells me that if the brave young people who did the sit-ins at lunch counters and faced off against the goons on the other side of the Edmund Pettus Bridge had the choice, they'd've been just fine with micro aggressions. As a middle-aged gay, I know that my "lifestyle" was criminal until quite recently. I grew up at the tail end of the era where you worried that if you were drinking in a bar you might get raided and arrested. Even more likely if you were at a bath house. If you "read queer" you were open season for bullying and assault. You learned to chuckle at the homophobia you'd encounter on TV and at the movies. To say things haven't improved is just stupid and illogical. America was on the cusp of electing a married, gay president this year. We're collectively learning that the struggle for understanding and accepting one another is an ongoing, probably never-ending one. . |
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| re: Ragtime... for our time | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 09:02 pm EDT 08/27/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Ragtime... for our time - portenopete 11:53 am EDT 08/27/20 | |
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| "Something tells me that if the brave young people who did the sit-ins at lunch counters and faced off against the goons on the other side of the Edmund Pettus Bridge had the choice, they'd've been just fine with micro aggressions." But that thought is exactly the problem. White people and politicians hiding behind the illusion that these big strokes of progress are enough, that black people know it's better than it used to be when they couldn't vote or could be hung for looking at a white woman or beaten to death for sitting in the wrong seat or tormented for going to school with white people, etc. This movement isn't only about micro aggressions... but pointing out that freedom fighters of the civil rights movement and prior would prefer micro aggressions IS a micro aggression and just perpetuates the notion that things are fine, and that there are no macro aggressions going on now/still/since, when there are countless. |
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| re: Ragtime... for our time | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 08:56 am EDT 08/27/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Ragtime... for our time - manchurch03104 07:56 am EDT 08/27/20 | |
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| To be clear: Ahrens did NOT say that there were no racial problems in 1998. Saying "we've come a long way in the previous century" doesn't mean there isn't still work to do. | |
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| she's literally not wrong... | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 08:56 pm EDT 08/27/20 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 08:53 pm EDT 08/27/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Ragtime... for our time - MockingbirdGirl 08:56 am EDT 08/27/20 | |
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| But she is nonetheless not "right" because she is missing the point, and that is the sign of her filtered understanding due to her white privilege. Yes, a lot of progress *has* been made since the 1906... that doesn't mean that there's isn't still SO much to do, that what has improved didn't come way too slowly, and that any and everything that happens is still happening in a country built on racism and slavery and a system with that as its foundation. What IS tone deaf about her statement is that the very specific incidents of racism and violence that happen to Coalhouse and Sarah and the reaction of the system and the police could and did happen in 1998 and in the early 90s, as well as today obviously. I wish she had said "in 1998 Ragtime was saying how far we have to come because the same story could have taken place today, and in 2020 it is tragically no different." Had she said the same thing about Dessa Rose (a show taking place during slavery) maybe it would have not sounded like she was unaware of the realities of being black in America. |
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| re: Ragtime... for our time | |
| Posted by: ryhog 09:17 am EDT 08/27/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Ragtime... for our time - MockingbirdGirl 08:56 am EDT 08/27/20 | |
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| and she expressly says that, but it is still an assessment borne of white privilege. that does not discredit her work but it does prompt interest in the perspective of the subject community. | |
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