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| re: Is it Les Mis or Les Miz? And has it changed over time? | |
| Posted by: sirpupnyc 11:50 am EDT 09/01/20 | |
| In reply to: Is it Les Mis or Les Miz? And has it changed over time? - mikem 11:41 am EDT 09/01/20 | |
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| It's usually Z in the crossword, I think. But it's one of those answers where you know it and still can't fill in the final letter. An ETA/ETD sort of answer. "Don't Miz Out" was an ad line for the original Broadway run for a while, wasn't it? |
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| re: Is it Les Mis or Les Miz? And has it changed over time? | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 12:57 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it Les Mis or Les Miz? And has it changed over time? - sirpupnyc 11:50 am EDT 09/01/20 | |
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| Both are accepted and used. 'Les Mis' is the correct version, as an abbreviation of the French work Miserables. In French the 's' is pronounced as 'z'. In the US, especially, the spelling Les Miz developed quickly, because that's what it the American spelling would be to get it to sound right. | |
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| re: Is it Les Mis or Les Miz? And has it changed over time? | |
| Last Edit: KingSpeed 03:30 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 03:26 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it Les Mis or Les Miz? And has it changed over time? - NewtonUK 12:57 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
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| Actually, s is most often silent in French. Esp at the end of a word. But whether you’re saying the word spelled “miserable” in French or English, the “s” is a “z” sound. | |
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| No, that's not true | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 04:56 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it Les Mis or Les Miz? And has it changed over time? - KingSpeed 03:26 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
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| Speaking generally, S is often voiced in French. The S at the end of a word is only silent if the following word begins with a consonant. So, for example, "très fatigue" is pronounced "tray fat-ee-gay" with the S silent. But if the following word begins with a vowel, then the S is pronounced as a Z. So, for example, "très amusant" is pronounced "tray za-mu-zant". This is called an elision, is it's a primary reason why French sentences glide so fluidly from word to word (which can be particularly hard for listening comprehension for beginner speakers). | |
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| re: No, that's not true | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 06:00 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
| In reply to: No, that's not true - Singapore/Fling 04:56 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
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| Speaking generally, S is often voiced in French. And of course I know you mean "pronounced," as opposed to the IPA distinctions between a "voiced" S (the "Z" sound") and an "unvoiced" S (the "S" sound) - both of which are used in French. :-) |
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| re: No, that's not true | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 06:46 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
| In reply to: re: No, that's not true - Chromolume 06:00 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
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| Alas, I never took my IPA class. :-) | |
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| re: No, that's not true | |
| Posted by: sirpupnyc 07:11 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
| In reply to: re: No, that's not true - Singapore/Fling 06:46 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
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| Just once, I want a crossword clue to mean that IPA... (The one that always comes to mind first.) | |
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| re: No, that's not true | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:30 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
| In reply to: re: No, that's not true - sirpupnyc 07:11 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
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| There was a fun production of My Fair Lady in Boston a few years ago, in which the set design had walls with phonetic symbols all over them. I thought it was a neat design - and kept saying that here was one show where you could get your IPA during the show instead of going out for one after...;-) | |
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| re: No, that's not true | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 08:43 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
| In reply to: re: No, that's not true - Chromolume 08:30 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
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| Based on the famous play by George Bernard Schwa? Yeah, I know. I'll get my coat. |
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| Ouch ;-P | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 08:48 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
| In reply to: re: No, that's not true - MockingbirdGirl 08:43 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
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| Hysterical. And painful. | |
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| re: No, that's not true | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:45 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
| In reply to: re: No, that's not true - MockingbirdGirl 08:43 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
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| Based on the famous play by George Bernard Schwa? By George, you've got it. ;-) |
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| All-female version | |
| Posted by: BruceinIthaca 09:48 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
| In reply to: re: No, that's not true - Chromolume 08:45 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
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| Let's not forget the all-female, feminist version, no doubt starring Bobbi Adler as Jeanne Valerie Jeanne: Les Ms. | |
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| re: Is it Les Mis or Les Miz? And has it changed over time? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 01:10 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it Les Mis or Les Miz? And has it changed over time? - NewtonUK 12:57 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
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| 'Les Mis' is the correct version, as an abbreviation of the French word Miserables. I don't think that "mis" is ever a "correct abbreviation" for the word "miserables." Only in Musical Theatre Land would that happen lol. I'm sure if I told a French speaker "Je suis mis" I'd just get a blank stare instead of sympathy. ;-) |
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| re: Is it Les Mis or Les Miz? And has it changed over time? | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 01:20 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it Les Mis or Les Miz? And has it changed over time? - Chromolume 01:10 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
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| You are correct C'Lume. But Les Mis started out spelled this way, because an anglo person doing an abbreviation assumed we all knew that the S was pronounced Z. Then it was made more user friendly as Miz - but both are still used interchangeabley! | |
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| PS -Mis v Miz | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 01:29 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it Les Mis or Les Miz? And has it changed over time? - NewtonUK 01:20 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
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| The website for Les Miserables worldwide is lesmis.com When the show played Paris, an article in the French Marie-Claire magazine calls the show Les Miz. |
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| re: Is it Les Mis or Les Miz? And has it changed over time? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 01:25 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it Les Mis or Les Miz? And has it changed over time? - NewtonUK 01:20 pm EDT 09/01/20 | |
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| Oh, I know - I was just saying that in proper French, I don't think "mis" (or even "miz") is actually an abbreviation for the word. So I'm not sure it's really right to say that "mis" is "correct" lol. ;-) | |
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