Threaded Order Chronological Order
| re: Oy Vey! | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 05:10 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Oy Vey! - ryhog 09:42 am EST 11/20/20 | |
|
|
|
| I absolutely agree that there should be many more opportunities for trans performers. ALL roles, not *just* those roles that speak to non-binary gender issues. Despite the idea that trans performers identify with the Hedwig story (Itzhak could certainly also be a role for a trans performer - interesting that no one is talking about that also), I wish the argument could be about more opportunities in ALL ways, not just in roles like Hedwig. Especially since the authors have now stated that Hedwig is NOT trans as originally conceived. | |
| reply to this message |
| The q&a for rurangi | |
| Posted by: dramedy 06:05 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Oy Vey! - Chromolume 05:10 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
|
|
|
| The author and director mentioned that they casted trans actors for some of the non-trans roles because they felt it was important. It was part of the ny gay film festival in September. | |
| Link | https://m.imdb.com/title/tt12592824/ |
| reply to this message | |
| re: Oy Vey! | |
| Last Edit: singleticket 06:04 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
| Posted by: singleticket 05:54 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Oy Vey! - Chromolume 05:10 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
|
|
|
| Especially since the authors have now stated that Hedwig is NOT trans as originally conceived. I actually thought their response was solid. They don't see the character as trans but as a femme gay boy who is forced into a binary surgical solution due to pressure from a boyfriend and a government. Is that a cop out on the part of the creators in the face of a new generation of LGBT activists? Maybe but I also think that the creators' original idea is a narrative that might be in conflict with a lot of the lived personal experience of trans people. The musical is layered against a very specific history and time and is a kind of allegory of post-war Germany. That's not to say that it correctly represents or misrepresents non-binary peoples' experience or history in general for that matter. It is what it is, a rock 'n roll fantasia and a great role for a performer. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Oy Vey! | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 12:04 am EST 11/22/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Oy Vey! - singleticket 05:54 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
|
|
|
| A gender journey, and the symbolism of it, is not the sole experience or property of the trans members of the LGBTQ+ community. I don't think it's fair to make a gay character have to be identified as trans because they go through a gender journey or blur the lines of gender constructs. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Oy Vey! | |
| Posted by: ryhog 12:43 am EST 11/22/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Oy Vey! - Chazwaza 12:04 am EST 11/22/20 | |
|
|
|
| Also, Hedwig was, in essence, raped into the transformation. My understanding is that the trans "journey" involves the whole person-mind, body,essence, maybe soul-and I would think trans folk would not consider Hedwig's journey to be the same thing at all. (I am not trying to speak for anyone and it would be lovely if someone could straighten me out (no pun intended) to the extent I am off base.) | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Oy Vey! | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 12:59 am EST 11/22/20 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 12:56 am EST 11/22/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Oy Vey! - ryhog 12:43 am EST 11/22/20 | |
|
|
|
| For sure. I also think it's complex because Hedwig seems to live happily and on purpose as a female presenting rock star, so it's easy to watch it and assume this is a happy choice... however we know clearly from the text that Hedwig isn't simply a female presenting trans woman, nor does he identify that way despite the wig. But the wig, and the song about it, does give some the impression that Hedwig is female or even more a female trapped in a male body... however I think this speaks much more to the gay experience specifically than it does to my understanding of the trans experience. Escaping into or being empowered by your femme side, embracing it and living in it for certain moment or situations (to escape after work, or a rock performance show), seems to speak to both a trans experience and a gay experience (or at least the dramatization of the inner feelings of many gay men, and projectable to the female lesbian experience with male gendered clothing etc), so it's open to both/all (this may even be relatable to straight-cis people as well). But the important thing is A) the character's text does not identify him as trans, but does identify him as a femme gay male forced into a gender surgery B) The authors/creators/originator of the role and play specifically have said Hedwig isn't trans C) it has been said and proven that Hedwig can and should be open to be played by anyone. (and while my preference is heavily that it not be played by a straight man, that isn't fair as several straight men have done acclaimed amazing work in the role, like Michael Cerveris and Michael C. Hall, and many straight men, including in the original production and the revival/tour, have been approved by Mitchell and Trask... so that's that) | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Oy Vey! | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 05:33 pm EST 11/23/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Oy Vey! - Chazwaza 12:56 am EST 11/22/20 | |
|
|
|
| Cerveris was incredible in the show, one of my all-time favorite Hedwigs. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Oy Vey! | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 05:43 pm EST 11/23/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Oy Vey! - Singapore/Fling 05:33 pm EST 11/23/20 | |
|
|
|
| In a way, because of the poetic and universality of the role/play, this is one queer role i think i'm okay with straight people getting to play too. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Oy Vey! | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 09:36 pm EST 11/22/20 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:36 pm EST 11/22/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Oy Vey! - Chazwaza 12:56 am EST 11/22/20 | |
|
|
|
| (and while my preference is heavily that it not be played by a straight man, that isn't fair as several straight men have done acclaimed amazing work in the role, like Michael Cerveris and Michael C. Hall, and many straight men, including in the original production and the revival/tour, have been approved by Mitchell and Trask... so that's that) Thank you for almost, but ultimately not quite, opening the can of worms...;-) |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Oy Vey! | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 04:39 pm EST 11/23/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Oy Vey! - Chromolume 09:36 pm EST 11/22/20 | |
|
|
|
| Ha, yep! I mean I still fervently advocate that any queer roles not be played by straight actors if just simply to do the basic thing of creating opportunity and paid work for queer actors who often only get a chance to play queer roles as it is. If the star-making roles or productions go to straight actors too then how are openly queer actors supposed to evolve in their careers let alone sustain this difficult career?! And obviously representation matter a lot too. But that's the common argument, and I feel the initial point i'm making is just as important but vastly less vocalized in this debate of who can/should/is allowed to play what. At this point in equality/society/representation/opportunity in our world, i do not by any means think it can be dismissed as simply being "about acting." No one asked but :) |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Oy Vey! | |
| Posted by: enoch10 02:40 pm EST 11/21/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Oy Vey! - singleticket 05:54 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
|
|
|
| > > Is that a cop out on the part of the creators in the face of a new generation of LGBT activists? no. it is clear in the text. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Oy Vey! | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 08:10 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Oy Vey! - singleticket 05:54 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
|
|
|
| I don't think it's a cop out because all that they are doing is reiterating the facts of the character as expressed in the show. And also because from the first production, with the casting of Ally Sheedy, they established that Hedwig could be played by performers of different genders. In this case, the trans activists haven't done the work to investigate the story that is being told, which is as important as the activism - in the face of the typical blowhard regressives like we see above - to demand that we create more space for actors who don't come from the traditional mold (because, of course, the "actors can play anything" argument is almost always about letting white, straight, able-bodied actors play all of the roles, and rarely goes in reverse... as evidenced by the outcry that often results from these same regressives when there is an attempt at casting someone outside of the tradition, where it's bemoaned that the work is being mangled by the casting choice). | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Oy Vey! | |
| Posted by: ryhog 09:32 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Oy Vey! - Singapore/Fling 08:10 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
|
|
|
| "with the casting of Ally Sheedy, they established that Hedwig could be played by performers of different genders." May I ask for a minor edit of this: "with the casting of Ally Sheedy, they ATTEMPTED TO ESTABLISH that Hedwig could be played by performers of different genders." Poor Ally was a trainwreck for the ages, not because she was a woman. Lena Hall, otoh, DID establish this. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Oy Vey! | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 09:57 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Oy Vey! - ryhog 09:32 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
|
|
|
| I didn't say she was good in the part ;-P I agree with you, she was rather lost, but whether she was able to perform it is, I think, secondary to the act of casting her and making a case for a Hedwig as a role that isn't limited to one gender. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Oy Vey! | |
| Posted by: ryhog 10:13 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Oy Vey! - Singapore/Fling 09:57 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
|
|
|
| yes. I just thought it was important to memorialize one of the biggest fiascos in casting history (and that's saying a lot). "Rather lost" is either an understatement or a euphemism. Sorry if it made such an impression on me that I can't unsee it. lol | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Oy Vey! | |
| Posted by: OriginalTopherP 07:29 pm EST 11/23/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Oy Vey! - ryhog 10:13 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
|
|
|
| ...and for anyone not familiar with the fiasco, here's the NY Post article detailing what happened. | |
| Link | https://nypost.com/1999/12/17/weird-ally-quits-hedwig/ |
| reply to this message | reply to first message | |
| re: Oy Vey! | |
| Posted by: Quicheo 10:59 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Oy Vey! - ryhog 10:13 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
|
|
|
| On the night I saw her, she had Yitzhak sing over half of Hedwig's songs. Some of the monologs worked--she has a magnetism--but this certainly wasn't her role. And fiasco is certainly an apt word. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Oy Vey! | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 11:15 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Oy Vey! - Quicheo 10:59 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
|
|
|
| I guess I got lucky - we didn't see a fiasco, more like a competent understudy in the star part. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Oy Vey! | |
| Posted by: singleticket 09:10 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
| In reply to: re: Oy Vey! - Singapore/Fling 08:10 pm EST 11/20/20 | |
|
|
|
| because, of course, the "actors can play anything" argument is almost always about letting white, straight, able-bodied actors play all of the roles, and rarely goes in reverse... Yes, agreed. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
Time to render: 0.055906 seconds.