Threaded Order Chronological Order
| The Raising Of The Palace Theatre | |
| Posted by: TGWW 03:04 pm EST 02/06/21 | |
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| If anyone is interested, due to construction on the west side of Times Square, EarthCam has repositioned a camera to give a great view of construction. Not a lot to see but even during the pandemic work continues. | |
| Link | The Palace |
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| It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 | |
| Posted by: dramedy 04:20 pm EST 02/06/21 | |
| In reply to: The Raising Of The Palace Theatre - TGWW 03:04 pm EST 02/06/21 | |
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| Pretty much on schedule for all theaters to open. I assume the tony award celebration will have a blurb. I wonder if 60 minutes or cbs Sunday morning will run a piece about raising the theater when it is complete. I can’t tell from the pic, but I assume the actual theater raising has been competed. |
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| re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 | |
| Posted by: ryhog 05:24 pm EST 02/06/21 | |
| In reply to: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 - dramedy 04:20 pm EST 02/06/21 | |
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| no, 2nd quarter of this year, if all stays on sked. | |
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| re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 | |
| Posted by: NewtonUK 10:41 pm EST 02/06/21 | |
| In reply to: re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 - ryhog 05:24 pm EST 02/06/21 | |
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| Billions spent to raise the theatre so that there can be retail on the street level. When retail is dead. Even for Times Square I fear ... | |
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| re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 | |
| Posted by: RoadGypsy2010 01:49 am EST 02/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 - NewtonUK 10:41 pm EST 02/06/21 | |
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| These Times Square locations are less about net retail sales and more about Branding. Many retail stores would never make enough in monthly sales alone to cover the rent. How many $7 Old Navy tee shirts do they need to sell at that flagship store to cover rent? So as long as there are global brands who want to keep paying the astronomical rental prices for these spaces, retail will never be completely dead in Times Square. I don't love losing the Palace as it's been known, but sadly the reasoning behind the lift/redesign makes good business sense in the long run. | |
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| re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:58 am EST 02/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 - RoadGypsy2010 01:49 am EST 02/07/21 | |
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| "These Times Square locations are less about net retail sales and more about branding." Yes. Specifically, I think these companies feel that the incredible level of branding they get by having their names on their Times Square locations seen again and again by millions of people during coverage of the annual New Year's Eve festivities, PLUS countless photos and videos taken by people in Times Square, is worth the astronomical rents for a TS location. But, for the record, I still think that's a terrible reason for what has been done to the Palace Theatre. |
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| re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 | |
| Last Edit: downtownlw 10:19 pm EST 02/07/21 | |
| Posted by: downtownlw 10:14 pm EST 02/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 - Michael_Portantiere 11:58 am EST 02/07/21 | |
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| I respectfully disagree. I have walked past the entrance to the Palace many times without even knowing I passed it. The palace has been obscured by sign pollution for decades. I look forward to seeing a prominent entrance on 47th Street. The renderings look promising. They are also making significant improvements to the lobby and backstage areas. | |
| Link | Palace Theatre renderings |
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| re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:25 pm EST 02/08/21 | |
| In reply to: re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 - downtownlw 10:14 pm EST 02/07/21 | |
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| To clarify, my objections to the raising of the theatre have nothing to do with the facade, which as you say has been completely obscured for many years. My objection as that it seems so dangerous and pointless to raise an entire theater for the reason that more retail space and signage was felt to be needed on Broadway. Also -- I suppose it was never even considered to remove all that signage and restore the facade? Regrettably, I don't think greed would have permitted that.... | |
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| re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 | |
| Posted by: ryhog 05:28 pm EST 02/08/21 | |
| In reply to: re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 - Michael_Portantiere 12:25 pm EST 02/08/21 | |
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| "I suppose it was never even considered to remove all that signage and restore the facade?" A couple of points about that. First, the facade to which you refer was never particularly distinguished and even when it was unobstructed it was largely lost in a jumble of other (even less distinguished) building. Second, the heritage of Times Square is in its bright lights and signage, not its facades, so restoring the facade to the time of its creation (a time when Broadway was not "Broadway") would, in effect, obscure the way in which marked the emergence of Times Square as the crossroads of the world. Look at that facade when Judy first landed there in '51. (Lots of them easy to find.) You can barely see the facade peeking through and I doubt most pedestrians ever even noticed. I am all for preserving the good stuff but this is not it. I do share your lack of enthusiasm for the project though, but for me it is more of rolling my eyes than beating on the table. |
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| re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 06:31 pm EST 02/08/21 | |
| In reply to: re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 - ryhog 05:28 pm EST 02/08/21 | |
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| Good points, thanks. | |
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| If it’s successful, isn’t it better? | |
| Last Edit: dramedy 01:56 pm EST 02/08/21 | |
| Posted by: dramedy 01:55 pm EST 02/08/21 | |
| In reply to: re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 - Michael_Portantiere 12:25 pm EST 02/08/21 | |
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| Seems like more backstage space is created. It seems like a real lobby will be formed. I like the entrance in side street instead of Times Square. The escalator might be a bottleneck but minakoff, marquis, square and Wilson all have stairs or escalators to the theater level. The place isn’t too bad with street noise like some theaters but increasing distance from street noise is good. My biggest objection was losing the theater for several years and then a little pandemic changed that. I guess I trust the engineers that say it can be lifted and permanently supported. |
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| re: If it’s successful, isn’t it better? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 02:56 pm EST 02/08/21 | |
| In reply to: If it’s successful, isn’t it better? - dramedy 01:55 pm EST 02/08/21 | |
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| Not exiting directly onto Times Square is reason enough for the renovation. I saw "An American in Paris" on a May weeknight performance, and exiting the theater took an obscene amount of time, moving at a crawl, because we were being shunted directly into the most crowded part of Times Square during one of the most crowded times of the year. | |
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| re: If it’s successful, isn’t it better? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 02:04 pm EST 02/08/21 | |
| In reply to: If it’s successful, isn’t it better? - dramedy 01:55 pm EST 02/08/21 | |
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| Thanks. I understand all of those points except what you wrote about a "real lobby." Didn't the old Palace have a long, wide entrance way that functioned as a real lobby? | |
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| re: If it’s successful, isn’t it better? | |
| Posted by: sirpupnyc 03:46 pm EST 02/08/21 | |
| In reply to: re: If it’s successful, isn’t it better? - Michael_Portantiere 02:04 pm EST 02/08/21 | |
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| More in the mold of the entrance to the Imperial or the 42nd Street entrance of the Lyric or New Amsterdam: because the house is actually on the other side of the block, there's a hallway connecting the street-side door to the theatre's actual interior. Like those others, it wasn't a "lobby" in the sense of it being a space you'd want to spend any time if you had another option. What the Palace is getting is lobby/lounge space that's both outside the house and inside the theatre's "building" and separate from entryways. | |
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| I’m surprised the retail is below ground | |
| Posted by: dramedy 11:15 am EST 02/08/21 | |
| In reply to: re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 - downtownlw 10:14 pm EST 02/07/21 | |
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| It shouldn’t matter but I remember the virgin record store had a basement and that was where classical and broadway were. Toys r us did a good job making the basement not seem underground. | |
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| re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 | |
| Posted by: ryhog 12:13 am EST 02/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 - NewtonUK 10:41 pm EST 02/06/21 | |
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| retail will be back around the time the property is ready for occupancy. (fwiw I do not think either will be in '22) | |
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| I think overall decline in the last decade | |
| Posted by: dramedy 10:51 am EST 02/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 - ryhog 12:13 am EST 02/07/21 | |
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| Macy closed it’s men store (separate building) in San Fran about 3 years ago. So now I have to go to the main store and go to 7th floor for much smaller collection. But I do think Times Square isn’t the standard model. It is branding. |
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| re: I think overall decline in the last decade | |
| Posted by: ryhog 01:57 pm EST 02/07/21 | |
| In reply to: I think overall decline in the last decade - dramedy 10:51 am EST 02/07/21 | |
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| No question that brick and mortar (especially large scale) is and has been in decline, and no question that some of Times Square rents are driven by branding opportunities, but traffic also drives the crazy prices. (I don't know either way but it would surprise me if most of these stores had been losing money. Plus stores off the photo op part of Times Square - like sporting goods stores on 42- pay high rent too.) My understanding is that a lot of the retail in this ridiculous enterprise is not going to have exposure of any kind, so it must be predicated on foot traffic (and I believe I read that Times Square foot traffic is the heaviest in the US. per sq foot). No question that none of this is "standard model" at all. | |
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| re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:50 pm EST 02/06/21 | |
| In reply to: re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 - NewtonUK 10:41 pm EST 02/06/21 | |
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| "Billions spent to raise the theatre so that there can be retail on the street level. When retail is dead. Even for Times Square I fear ..." Indeed. Some would call it bad karma. |
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| A general look at real estate development | |
| Posted by: tmdonahue 08:12 am EST 02/08/21 | |
| In reply to: re: It was scheduled to be completed in 2022 - Michael_Portantiere 11:50 pm EST 02/06/21 | |
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| I don't know what will happen when retail sites are available at the Palace. But I know that real estate development has a lot of luck inherent in it. One spends years developing a building plan, buying the land, obtaining government approval and then years building the structure. Over that time, no one can accurately predict the market. A small case in point. I live in a lovely 40 unit condo opened in 1987. The original builders went bankrupt and the mortgage holder auctioned off the unsold units, some of which hadn't been finished inside. Since then the condo has been well managed and cared for. The structural part is steel and concrete so it's solid and quiet inside units. It's on a lovely site, above a large river, next to a 1927 bridge, overlooking the small city skyline. The properties turn over quickly when someone moves. The condo was a good idea. But the financial times trapped the original builders. (Incidentally, the original plan was to build a twin of this building on an adjoining lot . That didn't happen.) |
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