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| Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? | |
| Posted by: Zelgo 09:31 pm EST 02/12/21 | |
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| Lupone defined Evita, but then she sort of disappeared—with regional theatre, a TV show we’ve all forgotten about, and some successes in London. After the hullabaloo around Sunset Blvd, she returned in Anything Goes. She was the hometown gal, and NYC embraced her partially because of how badly Lloyd Webber and the West End had treated her. Then of course she went from success to success: Sweeney Todd, Noises Off, Gypsy etc. Was Sunset Blvd the catalyst for her path to becoming an icon? |
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| re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? | |
| Posted by: JFly 12:33 pm EST 02/16/21 | |
| In reply to: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - Zelgo 09:31 pm EST 02/12/21 | |
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| I don't think the debacle made LuPone a Broadway superstar, but it is sort of perfect element of her legacy. Love her or hate her (I like her very much, but I wouldn't say I'm obsessed with her), I think a big part of her appeal is her gutsiness and determination. The fact that she went through this high profile fiasco and her career wasn't derailed because of it only adds to, and supports, that appeal. But this thread has me thinking that dramatizing the behind the scenes of the Sunset musical is the perfect project for Ryan Murphy. More fitting than him taking on A Chorus Line. |
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| re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? | |
| Posted by: Jason 08:43 am EST 02/16/21 | |
| In reply to: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - Zelgo 09:31 pm EST 02/12/21 | |
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| I don't think so. Evita made her a Broadway superstar. Not to mention, she had already done 11 Broadway shows before Evita. Les Miserables and Anything Goes pretty much sealed the deal. I do wonder what Ms. LuPone's career would look like had there not been an L.A. production of Sunset Boulevard with Glenn Close. I imagine she would have opened on Broadway to decent reviews. I don't believe she was wrong for the role. Maybe a bit too young, but wouldn't that be a great dichotomy for the show? We all know she could (and still can) sing and act the hell out of the role. If anything, Patti LuPone has been incredibly busy since Sunset Boulevard. She's done 11 (Company will be 12) Broadway shows, numerous concerts, Ravinia and Encores! shows, tv shows and movies. She's the busiest Broadway superstar of the last 25 years. No one even comes close. I would say that has a little to do with Sunset (it obviously changed her attitude and mindset) and EVERYTHING to do with Patti LuPone as a vibrant, talented, intelligent and persevering working actress. Take care, Jason |
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| Don't you think he had to fire her? | |
| Posted by: bobby2 01:34 am EST 02/16/21 | |
| In reply to: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - Zelgo 09:31 pm EST 02/12/21 | |
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| I mean Close had become the performance people wanted to see. I remember at the time group sales agents were getting calls asking for refunds if LuPone did the show. Granted they could have sat her down and told her nicely about it. I believe she read it in the papers, no? Her book makes it sound like a plot that she was constantly being underminded by bigger stars: Streep showing up to the concert debut. Close signing on in LA. Close was actually at a low point in her career and not known for being that good a singer. I'm sure the Sunset team never in a million years though Close would be the smash and LuPone would bomb. |
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| re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? | |
| Posted by: IvyLeagueDropout 03:23 am EST 02/15/21 | |
| In reply to: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - Zelgo 09:31 pm EST 02/12/21 | |
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| Perhaps the easiest, most direct answer to this thread is: If Patti LuPone had not been a Broadway superstar, it would not have been a big deal that she was let go. Actors lose jobs every day. But Patti LuPone getting fired from Sunset was huge news. |
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| re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:15 am EST 02/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - IvyLeagueDropout 03:23 am EST 02/15/21 | |
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| Excellent point! And related to that: One of the reasons why LuPone's firing became such huge news was that ALW had to pay her SO much money to NOT be in the show, and I strongly suspect that would not have been the case if she wasn't a big star. | |
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| re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 12:34 pm EST 02/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - Michael_Portantiere 10:15 am EST 02/15/21 | |
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| LuPone's payout was reported to be north of $1 Million. I think she even said something like "$1 Million wouldn't cover it." And, yes, that's a lot of money. But for ALW? He probably dug $1 million out of his sofa cushions to pass on to LuPone. I'm not sure why she was so proud of having scored that sum off someone so incredibly wealthy that he wouldn't even notice the loss. If anyone could afford to buy her out without a second thought, it's ALW. I imagine that LuPone's payout was probably pretty standard for someone of her stature in a role like that. If her Broadway contract was for 1 year, that's probably what she'd have made anyway over the course of that year. And I don't think that the amount that LuPone would have received is any indication of the evil deeds done to her...it would probably was in the contract from the beginning and something that was negotiated by her agent before any of it ever became an issue. So...a decision was made by ALW and that triggered the clause in LuPone's contract and she got whatever sum had been negotiated. None of it had anything to do with the specifics of how the particular situation went down. |
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| re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 01:37 pm EST 02/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - JereNYC 12:34 pm EST 02/16/21 | |
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| Thanks, but what I meant in my post was not what you thought I meant in my post :-) | |
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| re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? | |
| Posted by: NewsGuy 01:59 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - Michael_Portantiere 10:15 am EST 02/15/21 | |
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| Agreed, but playing the "flip side" here, were the headlines primarily "Patti LuPone FIRED" or "Glenn Close Coming to Broadway?" | |
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| By the way, it's LuPone | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 01:23 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - Zelgo 09:31 pm EST 02/12/21 | |
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| And her brother Robert spells it the same way | |
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| re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? | |
| Posted by: NewsGuy 12:50 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - Zelgo 09:31 pm EST 02/12/21 | |
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| A particular viral video did her a number of blessings.... | |
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| re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? | |
| Posted by: ariadneaufflatbush 08:59 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - Zelgo 09:31 pm EST 02/12/21 | |
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| ANYTHING GOES was after SUNSET, so I don't think this example quite works...I think Patti didn't full sky-rocket to super stardom until after she returned to Broadway in SWEENEY TODD, with GYPSY close-on-its-heels in 2008. | |
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| re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:08 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - ariadneaufflatbush 08:59 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
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| ANYTHING GOES was after SUNSET No, it wasn't. Anything Goes was 1987. Sunset was 1993. |
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| re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? | |
| Posted by: ariadneaufflatbush 09:27 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - Chromolume 09:08 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
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| YES! Sorry that's what I meant! | |
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| No because she’s not a superstar | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 05:22 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - Zelgo 09:31 pm EST 02/12/21 | |
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| She’s a legit star, yes, but “superstar” is reserved for actors like Bette Midler, Hugh Jackman, Nathan Lane, and Matthew Broderick. Chenoweth too maybe. IMHO. | |
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| My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Last Edit: GrumpyMorningBoy 07:57 am EST 02/14/21 | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 07:54 am EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: No because she’s not a superstar - KingSpeed 05:22 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
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| My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? If that's standard to be a Broadway superstar, then: Hugh Jackman: definitely Nathan Lane: not really Matthew Broderick: definitely not Kristin Chenoweth: not in anything she's done lately! They would tho, if the show was a hit. Idina Menzel: yes Lin-Manuel Miranda: sure, whenever he comes back to Bway Bette Midler: sure, but this largely happened because everyone knew it was probably her last Bway starring role Sutton Foster: probably Billy Porter: they will whenever he comes back Bernadette Peters: yeah Audra: most definitely Patti: OF COURSE. it's freaking PATTI LUPONE. - GMB |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Last Edit: KingSpeed 03:34 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 03:26 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - GrumpyMorningBoy 07:54 am EST 02/14/21 | |
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| Which people are you talking about and how many? Nathan is three times the star of Patti. What shows has she sold out like The Producers and The Odd Couple? Nathan Lane is the biggest true Broadway star, primarily for Broadway, of the last 30 years. | |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: Pokernight 12:59 pm EST 02/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - KingSpeed 03:26 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
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| I got on a plane and flew to NY to see Nathan in WAITING FOR GODOT, IT'S ONLY A PLAY and LOVE, VALOUR, COMPASSION. Thankfully, he did THE LISBON TRAVIATA and LIPS TOGETHER, TEETH APART in L.A. | |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 02:05 pm EST 02/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - Pokernight 12:59 pm EST 02/16/21 | |
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| I flew to see him in LVC too. I also drove 12 hours to see him in Addams Family in CHICAGO. | |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 03:15 pm EST 02/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - KingSpeed 02:05 pm EST 02/16/21 | |
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| Wow! 12 hours of driving, now that's dedication. I live just 2 miles north of Edison Park, but it took me 3 hours of driving and searching for a free parking spot to make it downtown to the Oriental Theatre on Sun., 1/10/2010 for a 2:00 PM show. The Addams Family was sort of a mess back then but Lane and Hoffman did a lot of schtick (Hoffman did too much) to make it an entertaining show and, of course, Wesley Taylor was pretty cute back then. Tickets were rather pricey for an out-of-town tryout -- I paid less than half that amount when I saw a much improved Broadway version on Sun., 12/19/2010 at the Lunt-Fontanne (less schtick, funnier, more cohesive book). But what the hell, I'm a big fan of Lane and Neuwirth, and I found Lippa's score enjoyable (although not especially distinguished). Best of all was the much revised local production I saw at Chicago's Mercury Theater on Sun., 2/22/2015 at 7:00 PM. The Tribune gave it a rave and (I believe) it won the Jeff Award for Best Musical Production (for its size) that season. Did you enjoy the Chicago production? Was it worth the long drive? |
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| Nathan Lane | |
| Last Edit: mikem 12:45 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
| Posted by: mikem 12:38 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - KingSpeed 03:26 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
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| Although he has stumbled recently, Nathan Lane's track record for profitability on Broadway is excellent. His commercial productions after The Producers were The Odd Couple, Butley, November, The Addams Family, It's Only a Play, The Front Page, the Angels in America revival and Gary, and I think The Addams Family and the last two were the only ones not to recoup. I agree with KingSpeed that he is the biggest "Broadway superstar" (someone who is primarily a draw because of their stage work) of the last 30 years. |
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| some might say Nathan is the reason Addams ran as long as it did... | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 05:29 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
| In reply to: Nathan Lane - mikem 12:38 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
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| Recoup or not. Musicals now need to run 2-6 years to recoup, you can't put that on a performer or a even a star. |
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| re: Nathan Lane | |
| Posted by: ryhog 01:27 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
| In reply to: Nathan Lane - mikem 12:38 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
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| I think you think wrong lol I don't have time to check right now but my recollection is that only 2 on your post-Producers recouped. Happy to have my memory adjusted if I mis-remember any. |
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| re: Nathan Lane | |
| Posted by: mikem 05:48 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Nathan Lane - ryhog 01:27 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
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| Of the five productions under question, I can find online references to four of them having recouped: The Odd Couple, Butley, It's Only a Play, and The Front Page. I can't find anything one way or the other about November. I thought it had recouped, but I could be wrong. | |
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| re: Nathan Lane | |
| Posted by: ryhog 08:27 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Nathan Lane - mikem 05:48 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
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| Odd Couple and Front Page there is no doubt about. Butley surprises me so I blame that for being wrong. And It's Only a Play I know started gangbusters but then I remembered that it faltered terribly when Nathan left, and it also moved and never recovered. I guess it did so well early that it recouped super quickly. And all of that validates your assessment. Does the star continue to shine that brightly? I guess we will have to wait and see. | |
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| re: Nathan Lane | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 08:16 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Nathan Lane - mikem 05:48 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
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| Front Page had a big cast, so to recoup in a short run is quite impressive. | |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 12:21 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - GrumpyMorningBoy 07:54 am EST 02/14/21 | |
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| I'm not why you don't think people would fly for Nathan Lane... But I think to be fair, there are definitely people who would fly for broadway actors they love who are not superstars. So this metric, besides being impossible to have data on, is a bit faulty. :) Also I think Bette is someone people would fly for especially if they want to see her in the particular show she's in. But she has... never... starred in a Broadway musical before Dolly, so it's not like she's been in a show every few years. I'm sure some fly for Ebersole, some for O'Hara, some for Gavin Creel even, some for Chita (who is a Broadway superstar), some for Adam Pascal, some for Shoshana Bean... there's no telling. |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 01:30 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - Chazwaza 12:21 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
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| I think the "will people fly to see them?" standard is an odd one to begin with, but also, of course, there is room for great difference in opinion as to whether or not OTHER people will fly to see a particular performer in a particular show. So while it may be an amusing exercise to try to use this standard in judging whether or not someone is a theater superstar, of course it has no real value as a way to actually measure that. | |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 07:33 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - Michael_Portantiere 01:30 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
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| I would suggest that what has happened in this thread is the same thing that happens in so many: people hijacking an analysis (which in this case is pretty nonsensical) to tell us the performers they personally like and don't. No real value indeed. | |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:30 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - ryhog 07:33 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
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| I would suggest that what has happened in this thread is the same thing that happens in so many: people hijacking an analysis (which in this case is pretty nonsensical) to tell us the performers they personally like and don't. No real value indeed. Thank you. |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 04:24 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 04:23 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - Michael_Portantiere 01:30 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
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| Traditionally, a lot of Broadway audiences were made up from folks who lived in the tri-state area, as well as tourists both foreign and domestic. There were audiences of theater parties, many of the women. Plus, many of those "tired businessman" shows were indeed almost geared for guys who worked in offices around NYC with their wives or girlfriends to go to after a long day or week at the office. Flying to see a show is a more modern and entirely subjective way of measuring something like this. Do you measure how many folks fly across the Atlantic to see someone in London as a basis of who is the hottest star in London? It might not really correlate either. It's interesting to hear your take on this, based on your purchased tickets or cashed in frequent flyer miles, but as some sort of statistical study, it's kind of amusing balderdash. | |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 12:15 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 12:14 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - GrumpyMorningBoy 07:54 am EST 02/14/21 | |
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| How do you know any of this? Do you have flight records or something? | |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 10:24 am EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - GrumpyMorningBoy 07:54 am EST 02/14/21 | |
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| You have the right standard, but you need to add a y-axis in order to reach an assessment. Of course (some) people on this board would come to NYC just to see all of these people (maybe except Broderick) but that is not nearly enough. What is the dimension of the audience? Note that many of the people you mention have been in shows that failed to find an audience (and that "of course" includes the one you say is an all-in-caps "of course"). I think by the way that it is almost always about the show and not the person. Even Jackman's demand softened after a few weeks last time (and that was at Circle!) |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 01:10 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - ryhog 10:24 am EST 02/14/21 | |
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| Well, certainly the combination of show and performer is important, but I wouldn't use the example of Jackman, who people love because he's a showman, appearing in a rather oblique and hard to follow non-musical as the evidence that the show is the draw, not the person. Arguably, Jackman drew enough of a crowd to keep that play running at all, since the material was uniquely un-Broadway. | |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 07:30 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - Singapore/Fling 01:10 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
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| I think you are either missing my point or I did a lousy job of stating it. When I say it is almost always the show first, I think what you say about Jackman supports that notion. I said almost because I think there are a few people that folks would go to see just to be close, regardless. (Would a bunch of people fly in to see the Obamas in a play without even asking what it was? Probably.) And I think there are a few that fit in the "last chance" category. But my broader point is that there really is no workable metric based on the board a plane standard that makes sense to me, even for Hugh Jackman who, for the record, I can live without seeing, but that's another song. :-) | |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Last Edit: Roman 10:33 am EST 02/14/21 | |
| Posted by: Roman 10:31 am EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - ryhog 10:24 am EST 02/14/21 | |
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| Yeah, I really reject the theory that people flocked to see Midler because it was their last chance to do so. The play she did at the Booth didn’t bring folks in. But put a beloved star in a first-class revival of a beloved show? People are gonna (and did) fly in. I think only the theatre-obsessed are gonna fly in to see Patti. Her fan base isn’t anywhere near Midler’s or Jackman’s, but they ARE passionate. I think they want to see her yell at someone as much as perform. That said, I would never recommend flying in for Audra because chances are good that you’ll get her understudy. |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 12:24 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - Roman 10:31 am EST 02/14/21 | |
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| Well hold on now... a play vs a musical, when we're talking about the draw of a *singing* superstar, we can't compared a play she doesn't sing in and is an entirely new piece about someone most people have never heard of and don't care about.... to one of the most endearing, enduring, and recognizable musicals there is. I think half the people who went because of Bette wouldn't have gone if someone else were starring in the Hello Dolly revival. So it's about both, the performer and the show, very much so. |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 12:43 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - Chazwaza 12:24 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
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| I got a free ticket to see a concert with Bette Midler, The VIllage People, Earth Wind and Fire, Nile Rodger & Le Chic a few years ago at Forest Hills Stadium. Not a sellout by far, but fabulous concert with Ms. M at the end (maybe half a year pre-Dolly). | |
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| re: No because she’s not a superstar | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 06:43 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: No because she’s not a superstar - KingSpeed 05:22 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
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| It really depends on the meaning of "bway superstar"... the OP was SURELY not saying LuPone is on the level of fame or box office power as any of the people you listed, and I think you know it. As far as stars who are stars on broadway specifically, without having a sustained and global TV, film and/or music recording career... yes, LuPone is a broadway superstar. That's not that same as a superstar who is doing broadway. Bernadette isn't in the fame or BO power league of those people either, but she is a Broadway superstar. Same with Audra. |
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| re: No because she’s not a superstar | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 03:24 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: re: No because she’s not a superstar - Chazwaza 06:43 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
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| I consider there to be a difference between Star and Superstar. I think Patti is a Star. | |
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| re: No because she’s not a superstar | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 06:11 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 06:09 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: re: No because she’s not a superstar - KingSpeed 03:24 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
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| this is why i thought to differentiate superstar on broadway vs broadway superstar. I do think you can be a broadway superstar (Patti, Audra, Chita, Bernadette, Chenoweth, Patinkin) without being a superstar (Jackman, Midler). Because there are also Broadway stars who are not "broadway superstar" level. I'd put into this: Brian Stokes Mitchell, Marin Mazzie (RIP), Alice Ripely, Sheri Renee Scott, Gavin Creel (though he's creeping toward superstar), Patina Miller, Christine Ebersole. I would actually argue that Sutton is in this category and not bway superstar as some would put her in. I think Kelli is here too. I think Nathan Lane is interesting because he's more famous and a bigger box office draw than any of the other Bway Superstars I think, even if just slightly (depending on the show too, as with any of them), but is obviously not a global superstar in the realm of Jackman or MIdler. |
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| re: No because she’s not a superstar | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 07:23 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: re: No because she’s not a superstar - Chazwaza 06:43 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
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| Chazwaza, thank you for explaining so clearly what one would have thought is clear, but obviously is not clear to the person to whom you're responding.... | |
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| No... but it was surprisingly good for her | |
| Posted by: IvyLeagueDropout 03:18 am EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - Zelgo 09:31 pm EST 02/12/21 | |
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| No doubt the firing was a brutal humiliation. But she was ultimately fortunate to have had it happen. -She received, reportedly, an extra million bucks with her payout. That provides a lot of security to someone whose income is mostly from stage work. -During the time she would have been in a Broadway run of Sunset, she needed surgery on her throat and separately for a detached retina. She would have missed a couple of months of performances, and would have received tremendous heat about that. -Although Close sold well, the production did lose its entire investment. That would have been laid at her feet had she starred in it. -Not doing Sunset freed her up to bring her 1 woman show to Broadway for an acclaimed limited run, replace Zoe Caldwell in Master Class to great notices and strong box office, and most significantly, star in the Encores! Pal Joey. Not only did she get a great response both in the theater and in the reviews, it began her collaboration with Lonny Price. She would go on to do 7 Sondheim shows at Ravinia under his direction, as well as NY Phil concerts of Sweeney, Passion and Candide. Those concerts led, ultimately, to the revivals of Sweeney and Gypsy. The painful closure of Patti's first act led directly to her very fruitful second act. |
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| re: No... but it was surprisingly good for her | |
| Posted by: Revned 02:58 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: No... but it was surprisingly good for her - IvyLeagueDropout 03:18 am EST 02/13/21 | |
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| Good points. Also: Price and LuPone worked together on COMPANY for the NY Phil as well, which may have played a part in her getting the same role in the "current" Broadway revival... | |
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| She IS big. It's the ... art of enunciation... that got small. | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 04:25 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 04:23 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: No... but it was surprisingly good for her - IvyLeagueDropout 03:18 am EST 02/13/21 | |
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| Great voice, though diction not her strong point. | |
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| re: No... but it was surprisingly good for her | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 03:23 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: No... but it was surprisingly good for her - IvyLeagueDropout 03:18 am EST 02/13/21 | |
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| IvyLeagueDropout, I think that's an extremely astute analysis, so much so that I doubt anyone could argue with it. Bravo and/or brava to you! | |
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| re: No... but it was surprisingly good for her | |
| Posted by: IvyLeagueDropout 04:50 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: re: No... but it was surprisingly good for her - Michael_Portantiere 03:23 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
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| Thanks. And Happy Valentine's Day to you, too. | |
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| re: No... but it was surprisingly good for her/Encores! Pal Joey | |
| Posted by: PlazaBoy 02:49 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: No... but it was surprisingly good for her - IvyLeagueDropout 03:18 am EST 02/13/21 | |
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| I had an audience interaction at Pal Joey that has stayed in my mind for many years. As Lupone entered to a huge ovation (as mentioned above), the gentleman next to me, looked at me and asked "Who is that?" It was comical in the context of the audience losing their minds over Patti. |
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| re: No... but it was surprisingly good for her/Encores! Pal Joey | |
| Posted by: Revned 03:02 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: re: No... but it was surprisingly good for her/Encores! Pal Joey - PlazaBoy 02:49 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
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| A related story: The night I saw the Encores! PAL JOEY, Vicki Lewis, playing a supporting role, got a surprisingly tumultuous round of entrance applause. I believe, and others mentioned this as well at the time, that it was partly because, in that huge house, a lot of people thought she was LuPone, who had not yet appeared onstage! | |
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| the Lonny Price concerts / Gypsy | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 12:25 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 12:11 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: No... but it was surprisingly good for her - IvyLeagueDropout 03:18 am EST 02/13/21 | |
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| Let's just be very honest with reality here, Lonny Price would very likely have come to Patti to star in one of his staged Sondheim concerts whether or not she had done Pal Joey for him. She was a huge broadway star/legend even by then, and an amazing singer and actor, with a Tony Award and name recognition... and his entire thing depends on putting stars into notable roles, rehearsing quickly, mounting and sometimes filming. Who knows. But also, even with her doing Pal Joey, he might have already had someone else in mind or agreeing to do these concerts, and Pal Joey still would have been done with Patti and stayed a one-off for them. Honestly it's almost a surprise to me that Patti got to do them in the roles she did... given that Audra was also committed to most of them, and I could EASILY see her, in a staged concert world, wanting to take on Desiree, Cora Hoover Hooper, even Fosca. And the same audience (or a bigger one) would have been just as excited to see her do them as Patti, maaaaybe more. She did do Dot for Lonny (and was glorious)... and while she also starred as Fay Apple and Clara for him, she could easily have had a go as Cora and Fosca. Hell, she could EVEN have been asked to do The Old Lady in his Candide (though probably not). And yes, in Lonny's Sweeney Todd she could for sure have done Lovett (she did Beggar Woman in one of them). And god knows she could do Gypsy as Rose, and probably will in 5-10 years. But justifying her doing it in her early 40s would not have been hard at all since the character must be in her 30s most of the show timeline-wise, not her 50s as most productions seem to want us to believe based on casting. (It's also possible Audra could have done it at Ravinia for Lonny and that's it, and then several years later a Broadway revival with Patti emerge, with Encores or without) So it's quite possible that without Pal Joey Patti would have gotten these opportunities, and that she wouldn't have, and also possible that she wouldn't have even with Pal Joey. |
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| re: the Lonny Price concerts / Gypsy | |
| Posted by: IvyLeagueDropout 02:42 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: the Lonny Price concerts / Gypsy - Chazwaza 12:11 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
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| I didn't say that but for Pal Joey she never would have worked with Lonny. Just that she did and that they then began a very long-running series of shows together. I know she also had a history with Ravinia, making them quite happy to have her. But if they hadn't done Pal Joey, I can certainly imagine other fine actresses being asked to do the Sweeney concert. Fully agreed that Audra was a glorious Dot (I adored everything about the Ravinia Sunday, except Lonny's damn video montage played over the ending). Audra would be terrific in most anything; prior to Lady Day I might not have made that statement, but she is so incredibly versatile both vocally and dramatically. I really wish Patti and Benanti would do The Rink, as was rumored 10 years ago now. Both too old now, but I think they'd still be great. |
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| re: Audra | |
| Posted by: peter3053 08:50 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: re: the Lonny Price concerts / Gypsy - IvyLeagueDropout 02:42 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
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| My dream is to see and hear Audra sing Elizabeth Barrett's soliloquy from "Robert and Elizabeth", the greatest single soliloquy for a woman in musical theatre history (well, yes, okay, "Rose's Turn" is up there too....) A perfect lyric, a perfect evocation of a poet's diction, a perfect dramatic build with a major step in the action at the end, and musically heaven-sent. If Brian Stokes Mitchell played Robert Browning in a production alongside her, the world would finally be perfect too! |
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| re: Audra | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 12:23 pm EST 02/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Audra - peter3053 08:50 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
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| Aren't you forgetting "Glitter and Be Gay"? | |
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| re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? | |
| Posted by: bway1430 03:14 am EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - Zelgo 09:31 pm EST 02/12/21 | |
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| I say this as a huge fan of Patti who saw her in SUNSET twice. Whatever noteriety or potential embarrassment she suffered due to being replaced by Close on Broadway (then Buckley in London) is nothing compared to what she may have suffered should they have brought her in with the show. Vocally she was wondrous but she simply was not a good fit for the role. I think her reviews would have bordered on disastrous and the show would certainly have suffered as a result. She did better having been replaced in the show than she likely would have done had she stayed. |
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| re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? | |
| Posted by: sf 06:50 am EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - bway1430 03:14 am EST 02/13/21 | |
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| She was better, oddly, after she was fired - I saw her about three months into her run, and then again a couple of weeks before her last performance, in the period when she was working out the remains of her contract after The Unpleasantness. The difference was like night and day - there was a go-for-broke quality to her performance the second time that had been entirely absent the first time I saw her, and she finally seemed to be *starring* in the show rather than just playing a role in it. If she'd found that performance before the American critics came in to see the show the previous summer, the whole saga might have played out very differently. | |
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| i think Patti got *very* in her head about being an ACTOR first and singer second | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 12:26 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 12:17 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - sf 06:50 am EST 02/13/21 | |
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| She wasn't even going to audition for Evita, as I recall. And she was getting obsessed, it seems (or is at least very likely) with refocusing her image and career narrative to her as an ACTOR who sings (exceptionally well). So I think this really impacted how she approached playing Sunset Blvd. Coupled with being in the shadow of the iconic and over-the-top legendary performance of Gloria Swanson in the beloved and acclaimed film that her Norma would always be compared against, she really wanted to make it her own and I think actively resisted what the material of the actual musical wants from its star. I think if Patti were playing Norma now, or in the last 15 years, she'd have killed it from day 1. |
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| re: That is very interesting.... | |
| Posted by: bway1430 08:33 am EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - sf 06:50 am EST 02/13/21 | |
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| I caught her early in the run, only a few weeks apart and wish I had seen the performance as you described. There was no tension, no chemistry with Kevin Anderson and no dynamics although I liked most of the score which seemed to be the only thing going for it aside from the very opulent design. I was totally unprepared for how much better the show became with the new leading lady and the revisions in the book and the staging. There was tension the moment the curtain went up and Betty's call from offstage before her first entrance sent a chill down my spine. Her chemistry with John Barrowman was amazing. Whole new show. |
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| re: That is very interesting.... | |
| Posted by: huskyital (huskyital@yahoocom) 11:50 am EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: re: That is very interesting.... - bway1430 08:33 am EST 02/13/21 | |
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| I didn't see Patti do it.....I saw Glenn Close twice once in the original and again in the revival and despite the fact that she does not have the range some do, she was glorious both times. I saw Elaine Page do it and she couldn't hold a candle to Glenn. Sad that this has been on the drawing boards to go to film for years, and I think it could make a good movie. | |
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| re: That is very interesting.... | |
| Posted by: Pokernight 12:26 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: re: That is very interesting.... - huskyital 11:50 am EST 02/13/21 | |
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| It could happen if they get someone like Tom Hiddleston as her co-star... | |
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| re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? | |
| Posted by: Pokernight 01:16 am EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - Zelgo 09:31 pm EST 02/12/21 | |
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| Let us not forget LES MIZ. She'll forever be on the cast album. | |
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| re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 05:32 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - Pokernight 01:16 am EST 02/13/21 | |
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| Les Miz was before Sunset of course | |
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| re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 01:23 am EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - Pokernight 01:16 am EST 02/13/21 | |
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| She'll forever be on the cast album. Generally, indeed, people do remain on cast albums forever, lol. |
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| re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? | |
| Posted by: ravnquest1 09:37 pm EST 02/12/21 | |
| In reply to: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - Zelgo 09:31 pm EST 02/12/21 | |
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| Anything Goes was 1988 whereas Sunset Boulevard was the early 90s, so your timeline doesn't make any sense. | |
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| re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? | |
| Posted by: Zelgo 10:04 pm EST 02/12/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - ravnquest1 09:37 pm EST 02/12/21 | |
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| Oops you’re right about the timing of Sunset and Anything Goes. But the question is still valid. Did the publicity around Sunset make Lupone a bigger name? |
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| No | |
| Last Edit: Singapore/Fling 12:34 am EST 02/13/21 | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 12:34 am EST 02/13/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - Zelgo 10:04 pm EST 02/12/21 | |
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| The question is not still valid, because the error in your timeline also answers your question. If there was any lingering doubt about LuPone's greatness in the decade after "Evita", it was confirmed by her bravura turn in "Anything Goes". When I started following Broadway seriously in '91 or '92, that performance was already legendary, as it showed that she wasn't just a voice who could carry a giant spectacle, but was an all around accomplished leading lady. And, frankly, while "Life Goes On" doesn't seem to have outlasted its era, it was a reasonably successful and culturally important series at the time, so that part of your argument is also questionable. The "Sunset" firing made headlines partly because it happened to the "Life Goes On" / "Evita" lady. And it wasn't necessarily a flattering story, as it communicated that she wasn't a star and wasn't as good as Glenn Close - who while a legend, was not a musical theater performer. So while it may have raised her profile, it also just as much may have been damaging. In any event, she was back on Broadway only a year later, replacing no less than Zoe Caldwell in "Master Class" (and giving a spectacular performance as well). And the whole time, she was doing concerts and the kind of galas where she came out on stage, belted a big showy song, and walked offstage burnishing her reputation as a major diva. That's how she became the woman who went from hit to hit. She gave good performances in a variety of mediums for decades. The Sunset news may have given her a boost, but it isn't the reason she is who she is today. |
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| re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 11:07 pm EST 02/12/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Did the Sunset Blvd debacle actually make Lupone a Bway superstar? - Zelgo 10:04 pm EST 02/12/21 | |
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| I doubt it. Forbidden Broadway had already turned the song "Anything Goes" into "Patti Lupone" (complete with mumbling) - it seems to me that if she wasn't such a name already they might not have done that. I can't imagine that the Sunset debacle made her any more "known" than she already was. BTW - the so-called "1988" revival mentioned earlier actually opened in 1987, lol. :-) |
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