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| My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Last Edit: GrumpyMorningBoy 07:57 am EST 02/14/21 | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 07:54 am EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: No because she’s not a superstar - KingSpeed 05:22 pm EST 02/13/21 | |
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| My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? If that's standard to be a Broadway superstar, then: Hugh Jackman: definitely Nathan Lane: not really Matthew Broderick: definitely not Kristin Chenoweth: not in anything she's done lately! They would tho, if the show was a hit. Idina Menzel: yes Lin-Manuel Miranda: sure, whenever he comes back to Bway Bette Midler: sure, but this largely happened because everyone knew it was probably her last Bway starring role Sutton Foster: probably Billy Porter: they will whenever he comes back Bernadette Peters: yeah Audra: most definitely Patti: OF COURSE. it's freaking PATTI LUPONE. - GMB |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Last Edit: KingSpeed 03:34 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 03:26 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - GrumpyMorningBoy 07:54 am EST 02/14/21 | |
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| Which people are you talking about and how many? Nathan is three times the star of Patti. What shows has she sold out like The Producers and The Odd Couple? Nathan Lane is the biggest true Broadway star, primarily for Broadway, of the last 30 years. | |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: Pokernight 12:59 pm EST 02/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - KingSpeed 03:26 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
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| I got on a plane and flew to NY to see Nathan in WAITING FOR GODOT, IT'S ONLY A PLAY and LOVE, VALOUR, COMPASSION. Thankfully, he did THE LISBON TRAVIATA and LIPS TOGETHER, TEETH APART in L.A. | |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 02:05 pm EST 02/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - Pokernight 12:59 pm EST 02/16/21 | |
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| I flew to see him in LVC too. I also drove 12 hours to see him in Addams Family in CHICAGO. | |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 03:15 pm EST 02/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - KingSpeed 02:05 pm EST 02/16/21 | |
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| Wow! 12 hours of driving, now that's dedication. I live just 2 miles north of Edison Park, but it took me 3 hours of driving and searching for a free parking spot to make it downtown to the Oriental Theatre on Sun., 1/10/2010 for a 2:00 PM show. The Addams Family was sort of a mess back then but Lane and Hoffman did a lot of schtick (Hoffman did too much) to make it an entertaining show and, of course, Wesley Taylor was pretty cute back then. Tickets were rather pricey for an out-of-town tryout -- I paid less than half that amount when I saw a much improved Broadway version on Sun., 12/19/2010 at the Lunt-Fontanne (less schtick, funnier, more cohesive book). But what the hell, I'm a big fan of Lane and Neuwirth, and I found Lippa's score enjoyable (although not especially distinguished). Best of all was the much revised local production I saw at Chicago's Mercury Theater on Sun., 2/22/2015 at 7:00 PM. The Tribune gave it a rave and (I believe) it won the Jeff Award for Best Musical Production (for its size) that season. Did you enjoy the Chicago production? Was it worth the long drive? |
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| Nathan Lane | |
| Last Edit: mikem 12:45 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
| Posted by: mikem 12:38 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - KingSpeed 03:26 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
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| Although he has stumbled recently, Nathan Lane's track record for profitability on Broadway is excellent. His commercial productions after The Producers were The Odd Couple, Butley, November, The Addams Family, It's Only a Play, The Front Page, the Angels in America revival and Gary, and I think The Addams Family and the last two were the only ones not to recoup. I agree with KingSpeed that he is the biggest "Broadway superstar" (someone who is primarily a draw because of their stage work) of the last 30 years. |
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| some might say Nathan is the reason Addams ran as long as it did... | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 05:29 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
| In reply to: Nathan Lane - mikem 12:38 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
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| Recoup or not. Musicals now need to run 2-6 years to recoup, you can't put that on a performer or a even a star. |
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| re: Nathan Lane | |
| Posted by: ryhog 01:27 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
| In reply to: Nathan Lane - mikem 12:38 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
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| I think you think wrong lol I don't have time to check right now but my recollection is that only 2 on your post-Producers recouped. Happy to have my memory adjusted if I mis-remember any. |
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| re: Nathan Lane | |
| Posted by: mikem 05:48 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Nathan Lane - ryhog 01:27 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
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| Of the five productions under question, I can find online references to four of them having recouped: The Odd Couple, Butley, It's Only a Play, and The Front Page. I can't find anything one way or the other about November. I thought it had recouped, but I could be wrong. | |
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| re: Nathan Lane | |
| Posted by: ryhog 08:27 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Nathan Lane - mikem 05:48 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
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| Odd Couple and Front Page there is no doubt about. Butley surprises me so I blame that for being wrong. And It's Only a Play I know started gangbusters but then I remembered that it faltered terribly when Nathan left, and it also moved and never recovered. I guess it did so well early that it recouped super quickly. And all of that validates your assessment. Does the star continue to shine that brightly? I guess we will have to wait and see. | |
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| re: Nathan Lane | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 08:16 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Nathan Lane - mikem 05:48 pm EST 02/15/21 | |
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| Front Page had a big cast, so to recoup in a short run is quite impressive. | |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 12:21 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - GrumpyMorningBoy 07:54 am EST 02/14/21 | |
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| I'm not why you don't think people would fly for Nathan Lane... But I think to be fair, there are definitely people who would fly for broadway actors they love who are not superstars. So this metric, besides being impossible to have data on, is a bit faulty. :) Also I think Bette is someone people would fly for especially if they want to see her in the particular show she's in. But she has... never... starred in a Broadway musical before Dolly, so it's not like she's been in a show every few years. I'm sure some fly for Ebersole, some for O'Hara, some for Gavin Creel even, some for Chita (who is a Broadway superstar), some for Adam Pascal, some for Shoshana Bean... there's no telling. |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 01:30 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - Chazwaza 12:21 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
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| I think the "will people fly to see them?" standard is an odd one to begin with, but also, of course, there is room for great difference in opinion as to whether or not OTHER people will fly to see a particular performer in a particular show. So while it may be an amusing exercise to try to use this standard in judging whether or not someone is a theater superstar, of course it has no real value as a way to actually measure that. | |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 07:33 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - Michael_Portantiere 01:30 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
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| I would suggest that what has happened in this thread is the same thing that happens in so many: people hijacking an analysis (which in this case is pretty nonsensical) to tell us the performers they personally like and don't. No real value indeed. | |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:30 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - ryhog 07:33 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
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| I would suggest that what has happened in this thread is the same thing that happens in so many: people hijacking an analysis (which in this case is pretty nonsensical) to tell us the performers they personally like and don't. No real value indeed. Thank you. |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 04:24 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 04:23 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - Michael_Portantiere 01:30 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
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| Traditionally, a lot of Broadway audiences were made up from folks who lived in the tri-state area, as well as tourists both foreign and domestic. There were audiences of theater parties, many of the women. Plus, many of those "tired businessman" shows were indeed almost geared for guys who worked in offices around NYC with their wives or girlfriends to go to after a long day or week at the office. Flying to see a show is a more modern and entirely subjective way of measuring something like this. Do you measure how many folks fly across the Atlantic to see someone in London as a basis of who is the hottest star in London? It might not really correlate either. It's interesting to hear your take on this, based on your purchased tickets or cashed in frequent flyer miles, but as some sort of statistical study, it's kind of amusing balderdash. | |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 12:15 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 12:14 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - GrumpyMorningBoy 07:54 am EST 02/14/21 | |
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| How do you know any of this? Do you have flight records or something? | |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 10:24 am EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - GrumpyMorningBoy 07:54 am EST 02/14/21 | |
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| You have the right standard, but you need to add a y-axis in order to reach an assessment. Of course (some) people on this board would come to NYC just to see all of these people (maybe except Broderick) but that is not nearly enough. What is the dimension of the audience? Note that many of the people you mention have been in shows that failed to find an audience (and that "of course" includes the one you say is an all-in-caps "of course"). I think by the way that it is almost always about the show and not the person. Even Jackman's demand softened after a few weeks last time (and that was at Circle!) |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 01:10 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - ryhog 10:24 am EST 02/14/21 | |
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| Well, certainly the combination of show and performer is important, but I wouldn't use the example of Jackman, who people love because he's a showman, appearing in a rather oblique and hard to follow non-musical as the evidence that the show is the draw, not the person. Arguably, Jackman drew enough of a crowd to keep that play running at all, since the material was uniquely un-Broadway. | |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 07:30 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - Singapore/Fling 01:10 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
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| I think you are either missing my point or I did a lousy job of stating it. When I say it is almost always the show first, I think what you say about Jackman supports that notion. I said almost because I think there are a few people that folks would go to see just to be close, regardless. (Would a bunch of people fly in to see the Obamas in a play without even asking what it was? Probably.) And I think there are a few that fit in the "last chance" category. But my broader point is that there really is no workable metric based on the board a plane standard that makes sense to me, even for Hugh Jackman who, for the record, I can live without seeing, but that's another song. :-) | |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Last Edit: Roman 10:33 am EST 02/14/21 | |
| Posted by: Roman 10:31 am EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - ryhog 10:24 am EST 02/14/21 | |
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| Yeah, I really reject the theory that people flocked to see Midler because it was their last chance to do so. The play she did at the Booth didn’t bring folks in. But put a beloved star in a first-class revival of a beloved show? People are gonna (and did) fly in. I think only the theatre-obsessed are gonna fly in to see Patti. Her fan base isn’t anywhere near Midler’s or Jackman’s, but they ARE passionate. I think they want to see her yell at someone as much as perform. That said, I would never recommend flying in for Audra because chances are good that you’ll get her understudy. |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 12:24 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - Roman 10:31 am EST 02/14/21 | |
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| Well hold on now... a play vs a musical, when we're talking about the draw of a *singing* superstar, we can't compared a play she doesn't sing in and is an entirely new piece about someone most people have never heard of and don't care about.... to one of the most endearing, enduring, and recognizable musicals there is. I think half the people who went because of Bette wouldn't have gone if someone else were starring in the Hello Dolly revival. So it's about both, the performer and the show, very much so. |
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| re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 12:43 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My standard: are people boarding planes and flying to NYC specifically to come see this person? - Chazwaza 12:24 pm EST 02/14/21 | |
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| I got a free ticket to see a concert with Bette Midler, The VIllage People, Earth Wind and Fire, Nile Rodger & Le Chic a few years ago at Forest Hills Stadium. Not a sellout by far, but fabulous concert with Ms. M at the end (maybe half a year pre-Dolly). | |
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