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| re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 10:13 pm EST 02/19/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? - charles1055 09:52 pm EST 02/19/21 | |
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| Sigh. We don't "beat" people. We are awarded. This is not a sporting event. And yes Aaron will proudly place his Tony on his mantel and cherish it. |
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| re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 07:01 am EST 02/21/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? - ryhog 10:13 pm EST 02/19/21 | |
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| Exactly. This should be an AWARD show. Something that means something. NOT a commercial to get butts in the seats. Those are two different things. And you don't know how proudly he'll place the award on his mantel and how much he'll cherish it. That's up to him. | |
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| re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? | |
| Last Edit: WaymanWong 03:35 pm EST 02/21/21 | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 03:29 pm EST 02/21/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? - KingSpeed 07:01 am EST 02/21/21 | |
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| ''And you don't know how proudly he'll place the award on his mantel and how much he'll cherish it.'' After the Tony nominations were announced in October, this was Aaron's reaction: ''It's a huge honor and I am so grateful to be nominated!! It's also vitally important to highlight that this recognition represents, collectively, thousands of hours of work by hundreds of individuals working on 'Moulin Rouge! The Musical.' ...'' And as recently as last month, here's what Aaron said about the Tony nominations to the New York Times: ''I was so happy they decided to go forward with it — it was a strange year and a shortened season, but there was a lot of great work done. I’ve tried to think of my nomination as recognition of my work and the performance. And I did reach out to [“The Lightning Thief” actor] Chris McCarrell, who was the other person who could have been nominated — I’ve had a couple of difficult Tony mornings, so I understand what that feels like.'' Based on what Aaron's said, I'd say the Tonys and what they represent matter to him, and he WOULD be very proud to put a Tony on his mantel. |
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| re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 01:42 pm EST 02/21/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? - KingSpeed 07:01 am EST 02/21/21 | |
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| They really aren't two different things, though. All manner of industries give out awards both to honor excellence AND to create outside interest in the product the industry is selling. The Oscars are a wonderful way of acknowledging incredible work AND a way to get people to go to the movies or subscribe to a streaming platform in order to watch all of the nominees before they join the office pool and then watch the television broadcast, which the industry is very open about regarding as a giant commercial for movies as a whole. Many of us like to believe that awards exist entirely for their own beneficence, but that's naive. |
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| I agree with you | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 06:57 pm EST 02/21/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? - Singapore/Fling 01:42 pm EST 02/21/21 | |
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| I was disagreeing with ryhog who said the ONLY reason for the Tonys was marketing. | |
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| re: I agree with you | |
| Posted by: ryhog 09:13 pm EST 02/21/21 | |
| In reply to: I agree with you - KingSpeed 06:57 pm EST 02/21/21 | |
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| "I was disagreeing with ryhog who said the ONLY reason for the Tonys was marketing." I never said that and I never would. What I said is that, were it not for the marketing opportunity, the Tonys (as we know them over the last half century) would not exist. |
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| re: I agree with you | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 12:25 am EST 02/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: I agree with you - ryhog 09:13 pm EST 02/21/21 | |
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| That’s not what you said. | |
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| re: I agree with you | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 08:10 pm EST 02/21/21 | |
| In reply to: I agree with you - KingSpeed 06:57 pm EST 02/21/21 | |
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| That's not the message that I've been getting from what ryhog has been sharing. I don't think he's saying that marketing is the only reason the Tonys are happening, but that marketing is a primary driver of WHEN they are happening.. and perhaps that viewpoint exposes the ugly truth that for the Broadway League, marketing truly is everything. But it is too late in the day for us to be surprised that money and commerce matters on Broadway, as opposed to art and artists. | |
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| Here are ryhog’s exact words: | |
| Last Edit: KingSpeed 12:27 am EST 02/22/21 | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 12:25 am EST 02/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: I agree with you - Singapore/Fling 08:10 pm EST 02/21/21 | |
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“But, let's try to remember: :-) 1. The modern Tonys exist for one and only one reason: marketing. “ There you have it. |
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| which you refuse to read correctly per my explanation | |
| Posted by: ryhog 09:08 am EST 02/22/21 | |
| In reply to: Here are ryhog’s exact words: - KingSpeed 12:25 am EST 02/22/21 | |
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| This is getting silly. Why do you refuse to process what I have written? The modern Tonys [meaning those produced on a national TV broadcast, with lots of production, as opposed to the earlier ones that were essentially private affairs] exist only for one reason, because there is a big payoff in marketing. The League and its members would not spend the millions of dollars otherwise. But that has to do with causation, not some other reading of my words that you seem obsessed with. I have made my meaning clear. |
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| re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 02:10 pm EST 02/21/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? - Singapore/Fling 01:42 pm EST 02/21/21 | |
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| There are, I think, awards that have no commercial angle. As an example, I think one would be hard pressed to find a commercial connection in the awarding of the Pulitzer Prize for Drama. But the Tonys would not have been on CBS for the last x years without the League and its members footing the bill. And in the absence of that, the Tony awards would not have the stature that they do. (There would be no EGOTs, just EGOs. :-) ) Compare, for example, the Bessie Awards. | |
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| re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 02:21 pm EST 02/21/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? - ryhog 02:10 pm EST 02/21/21 | |
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| I broadly agree, in that we have awards that lie outside of these industries or aren't awarded by the commercial heads of those industries. Though the Pulitzer Prize for Drama is an offshoot of an industry award that does exists to push the work of journalists and newspapers... and that seems all the more important in this day and age. | |
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| re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 02:59 pm EST 02/21/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? - Singapore/Fling 02:21 pm EST 02/21/21 | |
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| I would distinguish it because the award does not even indirectly push the work of journalism, and of course journalism does not have any economic interest in which work gets the award. But we disgress :-) | |
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| re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 01:28 am EST 02/20/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? - ryhog 10:13 pm EST 02/19/21 | |
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| We don't "beat" people. We are awarded. This is not a sporting event. In your mind, perhaps. But I think to many people, the competition is the whole point. It IS a sporting event. |
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| Yikes! | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 07:09 am EST 02/21/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? - Chromolume 01:28 am EST 02/20/21 | |
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| Who thinks of this as a sporting event??? Art is not a competition. Actors are awarded trophies for their performances but the actors giving their performances (if they're doing it right) are telling a story. Not trying to score more points than the actress two blocks away. If I won a Tony, I wouldn't think of it as beating the other nominees at all. If anything, the real competition in this business is the auditioning process in which one actor literally tries to overcome all the other candidates to secure the role. Even then, the ultimate decision by the director is an artistic one and not whoever scores 100 points wins. As an actor, when someone else gets a role I auditioned for, I'm happy for them and understand that many of us can play these roles and that this is just their turn. But back to the Tonys. I love sporting events. That is why I watch the NBA Playoffs. For the Tonys, I tune in to watch a celebration of theater. At least, that's what I hope for. |
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| re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 01:47 pm EST 02/20/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? - Chromolume 01:28 am EST 02/20/21 | |
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| My mind is the only thing I am responsible for. :-) In a sporting event, one performs a feat that either wins or loses (or, depending on the sport, ties). People who make theatre (a) do it to create something that's hopefully worthwhile, often without having the vaguest idea of who might later be up for an award at the same time, and (b) don't do it to win an award. While Aaron Tveit was losing sleep over the notes he got one afternoon from Alex Timbers, it was not because he was worried about beating Chris McCarrell (or anyone else) at the Tonys. I don't think you really believe that "the competition is the whole point." |
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| re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 01:56 pm EST 02/20/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? - ryhog 01:47 pm EST 02/20/21 | |
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| I don't think you really believe that "the competition is the whole point." Not for the nominees, of course. But for the audience, yes. If not, many of us out here wouldn't spend days and hours beforehand arguing over who should win, who will win, etc. For us, it's a competition, and in places like this, it gets pretty fanatical. Perhaps the comparison should be a little more to "fantasy" sports games, etc? |
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| re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? | |
| Posted by: KingSpeed 07:12 am EST 02/21/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? - Chromolume 01:56 pm EST 02/20/21 | |
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| But if you want that rush, watch real sports in which the outcome truly hangs in the balance on live TV. As I said, you can't do much better than the NBA Playoffs in terms of real live drama. The Tony Award winners are already determined before the show begins. We're just witnessing the announcement. That is not a sport. | |
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| re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 02:25 pm EST 02/21/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? - KingSpeed 07:12 am EST 02/21/21 | |
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| I mean, that's a weird analogy, because the entire season is the playoff game - we're watching each show and each performance, and then debating and analyzing who should win, and then going through all of the other awards to build up the excitement, and then finally at the Tony Awards we're in like the last minute of the game, and either the score is super close or we know it's pretty much a blowout, but either way it's not decided until the buzzer blow and the envelope is opened. I'm not a big fan of the way Chromolume is framing the awards show as being about the competition first and foremost, but I can't say I don't also get caught up in the competitive spirit of it all. And that aspect of it is cultivated by the awarding bodies, in order to get us more invested in it, and therefore watching all the content, and therefore supporting the industry. |
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| re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? | |
| Last Edit: WaymanWong 01:28 am EST 02/20/21 | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 01:21 am EST 02/20/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Try to remember: Will Tony ballots test the voters' powers of recollection? - ryhog 10:13 pm EST 02/19/21 | |
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| ''And yes Aaron will proudly place his Tony on his mantel and cherish it.'' And well he should. For the record, Aaron still needs to get 60% of the Tony vote to win, but I'm sure he will make it (and deserve to). You can't take a Tony nomination for granted. Just ask Chris McCarrell of ''The Lightning Thief'' (who wasn't nominated but should've been). Instead of stewing over a ''snub,'' McCarrell urged his fans on Twitter to support and celebrate the other Broadway shows whenever they return. And Aaron, who's known how it feels to get passed over by the Tonys in the past, reached out to McCarrell in consolation. To me, Aaron and Chris are class acts. |
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