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| re: Gene Nelson -- No "White Privilege" Benefit? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 12:55 pm EST 03/07/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 12:39 pm EST 03/07/21 | |
| In reply to: Gene Nelson -- No "White Privilege" Benefit? - BroadwayTonyJ 09:28 am EST 03/07/21 | |
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| Some of those musicals at Warner Brothers Nelson was in were very entertaining A-films, and those musical ladies were incredibly talented as well. For example, "Tea for Two" and "The West Point Story" have him with James Cagney, Doris Day and Gordon MacRae, all A-list talents, for example. I don't know why you chose Nelson to start off into a race tangent. Certainly the Nicholas Brothers were incredibly talented and worthy as well of having more of a career on film. A lot of who becomes a great star is also a matter of politics and luck and knowing the right people and not offending key people. Had Nelson been at MGM (considered the top musical studio) he would have played opposite Jane Powell (her home studio -- she was lent out to WB for the film he did with her there), maybe Kathryn Grayson perhaps (not a favorite), Debbie Reynolds and Ann Miller (Judy Garland having left/been fired in 1950); but that studio let go nearly all these people around 1955 as well, since the advent of tv became free competition, and film studios having to divest themselves of movie theatres dealt a death blow to the studio system. Plus around 1950, the other Gene, Mr. Kelly probably wouldn't have been keen to have competition at his home studio, least of all from someone else named Gene! Especially since Mr. Nelson in addition to being a great dancer, was an ace gymnast and professional figure skater! Nelson's name shows up in the credits of "Donna Reed Show", "I Dream Of Jeannie", and others, and he apparently liked directing. He did a show at City Center called "Music! Music!" with Donna McKechnie, as well as "Follies" on Broadway as well as other theater credits. There's a video interview with him, and what strikes me is how modest and gracious a gent he was, for all his talent and all the hard work that made him so incredible a performer. I think he worked hard, took what came his way, made attempts to get better opportunities, made the most of what he got, and appreciated doing it all. The chips of destiny, politics, who in power likes you and who blocks you, etc., are faced by everyone, in every field, actually. I just marvel at rediscovering him because he was fabulous. I love watching The Nicholas Brothers and Carmen Miranda and Dorothy Dandridge as well. Even folks who were top stars like Deanna Durbin, Miriam Hopkins, John Garfield and Kay Francis from lack of showing of their films on tv can be driven from the public consciousness and are most worthy of being rediscovered and enjoyed again. |
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| re: Gene Nelson -- No "White Privilege" Benefit? | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 01:11 am EST 03/08/21 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 01:03 am EST 03/08/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Gene Nelson -- No "White Privilege" Benefit? - PlayWiz 12:39 pm EST 03/07/21 | |
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| I was replying to your comment, i.e., "Gene Nelson should have been a much bigger star" -- which I agree with wholeheartedly. Nelson performed some amazing feats of athletic dancing in the musicals he made with Day, Cagney, MacRae, and other lesser names prior to Oklahoma. However, according to every critical source I know, those films were subpar, mediocre programmers, not like the classic ones those stars were famous for. Some were watchable, even enjoyable, but definitely undistinguished. One small exception was Crime Wave, a low-budget nifty little entry in the film noir genre. After Oklahoma -- Be honest! -- everything Nelson was offered in film was crap. That's why he went into television and eventually back to the stage. Nelson worked hard all his life and deserved the success he achieved, which was a career of being employed in the entertainment business. I wasn't going on a race tangent -- I made a simple comment which I believe to be accurate. The movie business in the 40's and 50's did not give him any special treatment because he was white. It was an impersonal business -- it used his talent briefly -- he really only made a single, truly distinguished film for which he is known today. When I made my comment, I was thinking of the similarity to the careers of Patrick Adiarte and Yuriko Kikuchi, who distinguished themselves in the film of The King and I. Adiarte had another fine showcase in Flower Drum Song, but eventually ended up on TV. Kikuchi went back to the world of dance, returned to the stage to direct Brynner in a 70's revival of The King and I, and has had a long, fruitful life despite never becoming a major star. Some years ago I saw an interview that Adiarte gave. He spoke highly of Brynner (whom he regarded as authentically Asian) and his whole experience in the stage, film, and TV work that defined his career. He didn't seem bitter about not becoming a star. He affirmed rather proudly that he had a long, satisfying career in the entertainment business. I don't understand the various comments from posters on ATC who seem more upset about Adiarte and Kikuchi's not achieving lasting stardom than Adiarte and Kikuchi themselves are. Anyway just IMO. |
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| re: Gene Nelson -- No "White Privilege" Benefit? | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 09:31 am EST 03/08/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Gene Nelson -- No "White Privilege" Benefit? - BroadwayTonyJ 01:03 am EST 03/08/21 | |
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| White privilege does not mean that EVERY white performer gets to be a big star in top-drawer films? Surely, you do not think that anyone is making that claim? Or is this just some elaborate troll scenario? |
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| re: Gene Nelson -- No "White Privilege" Benefit? | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 05:38 pm EST 03/08/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Gene Nelson -- No "White Privilege" Benefit? - whereismikeyfl 09:31 am EST 03/08/21 | |
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| No. Of course, I have always acknowledged that white actors in the 30's through the 50's got most of the lead and key supporting roles in films, often playing Asian and Hispanic characters. To play leads, an actor had to be a movie star or considered to be a box office draw. There were actually a number of Hispanic actors who became stars, like Dolores Del Rio, Cesar Romero, Rita Hayworth, Anthony Quinn, probably others. Not many Asian actors became movie stars. Anna May Wong had established herself in silent films, played a key supporting role in Shanghai Express, and became a leading actress. However, the films she starred in were sort of B movies with lower budgets and short running times. She sought the lead in the big budget The Good Earth, was turned down, but offered the key supporting role of Lotus. She refused the smaller role, a decision which probably hurt her future in films. Other Asian actors like Merle Oberon, Sabu Dastagir, and Turhan Bey did achieve stardom during the 30's. Asian actors like Keye Luke, Akim Tamiroff, Victor Sen Yung, Philip Ahn, and others had long careers playing featured roles. I've read a lot of books about the film industry during this period. I'm not convinced that "white privilege" is an accurate description of why white actors had greater success than actors of color. I think it's more complicated than that. The guys who made the movies were all white and/or Jewish. They looked at things through a white lens. Their goal, of course, was to make money and make films audiences wanted to see. Their perception was that actors had to have a certain look, couldn't be too ethnic, or (better yet) had to look exotic in order to play lead Asian characters. This gave actors like Oberon, Bey, and Sabu the advantage over most southeast Asian actors. Of course, this wasn't fair or just. But was it racist or white privilege? I honestly don't know. I'm sure tens of thousands (maybe more) actors were part of the movie making business in the 30's through the 50's. Only a handful became movie stars, most of whom were white. The vast majority of all actors, regardless of race, played extras, uncredited small parts, and other small roles. 99.9% never made it big. Just being white didn't guarantee anyone success or even employment. |
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| re: Gene Nelson -- No "White Privilege" Benefit? | |
| Posted by: whereismikeyfl 06:31 pm EST 03/09/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Gene Nelson -- No "White Privilege" Benefit? - BroadwayTonyJ 05:38 pm EST 03/08/21 | |
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| "The guys who made the movies were all white and/or Jewish. They looked at things through a white lens. Their goal, of course, was to make money and make films audiences wanted to see. Their perception was that actors had to have a certain look, couldn't be too ethnic, ..." That seems like a pretty good definition of white privileged as it is applied in the entertainment industry at least. White people in power are more comfortable with other white people, so they ignore and pass over non-whites much of the time. Or they think non-whites will not be acceptable to white customers and so they pass them over much of the time. |
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| re: Gene Nelson -- No "White Privilege" Benefit? | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 12:15 am EST 03/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Gene Nelson -- No "White Privilege" Benefit? - whereismikeyfl 06:31 pm EST 03/09/21 | |
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| The era we have been talking about is the 30's through the 50's. Back then the term white privilege had a totally different meaning. IMO you are trying to use a very non-mainstream, relatively recent (I believe, based on the views of many non-white and white respected historians) interpretation of white privilege to characterize behavior of a bygone era when the culture, popular tastes, social attitudes, and other factors were much different than they are today. The current film industry has evolved to the extent that it no longer has any resemblance to what it used to be. Of course, you have every right to embrace this interpretation -- ATC is a message board where anyone can freely express his view. I respect your opinion and admire your ability to state it in such an honest and respectful manner. I know that many on this board and other social media outlets agree with you. However, it is also true that there are others who do not. |
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| Thank you, PlayWiz | |
| Last Edit: TheOtherOne 01:07 pm EST 03/07/21 | |
| Posted by: TheOtherOne 01:05 pm EST 03/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Gene Nelson -- No "White Privilege" Benefit? - PlayWiz 12:39 pm EST 03/07/21 | |
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| It depressed me to see someone turn an honest appreciation of one artist's talent into a political rant. | |
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