Threaded Order Chronological Order
| Who else was considered to replace Len Cariou in Sweeney Todd? | |
| Posted by: bobby2 01:10 am EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| Hearn's singing style is so different. More operatic. He wasn't well know at the time either. Any gossip about how else auditioned or how Hearn was cast? | |
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| A few potential options. | |
| Posted by: portenopete 07:56 am EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: Who else was considered to replace Len Cariou in Sweeney Todd? - bobby2 01:10 am EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| I'm also wondering who else was considered right off the bat? In 1978, say, who were the leading baritone actors of the day? Alfred Drake was newly-retired (not sure if this was a planned retirement: his last credit was 1975) but he would seem a good candidate (although I don't know what his gravitas was like; he always played such smooth and charming swains). Richard Kiley would seem perfect for it. Tony Perkins couldn't have sung it but would have been temperamentally right. John Cullum or John McMartin? Hal Linden? Robert Preston? From England maybe Denis Quilley or Joss Ackland? From Australia maybe Keith Michell? All these names would have been worth discussing if I'd been doing the casting in 1978/79. |
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| re: A few potential options. | |
| Posted by: StageDoorJohnny 01:15 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: A few potential options. - portenopete 07:56 am EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| according to the rumors back in the day, Kiley and Patricia Routledge were early choices. Routledge didn't like it (pity she would have been terrific) and Kiley had had health problems and wasn't up the the rigors of the role at the time. So it was said | |
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| I would have voted for Timothy Nolen | |
| Posted by: Billhaven 10:31 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: A few potential options. - portenopete 07:56 am EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| He was one of the bright lights of GRIND. I waited until he took over Phantom because I loved his powerful voice so much. | |
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| re: I would have voted for Timothy Nolen | |
| Last Edit: WaymanWong 02:46 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
| Posted by: WaymanWong 02:46 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: I would have voted for Timothy Nolen - Billhaven 10:31 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| Nolen sang a lovely, lilting Irish lullaby in ''Grind'' (by Larry Grossman and Ellen Fitzhugh). It's called ''Katie, My Love,'' and it's a gem. | |
| Link | Timothy Nolen: ''Katie, My Love'' from ''Grind'' |
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| re: I would have voted for Timothy Nolen | |
| Posted by: Snowysdad 12:47 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: I would have voted for Timothy Nolen - Billhaven 10:31 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| He played it at City Center and you can hear him sing "Try a Little Priest" on the Book of the Month Club Sondheim set. Sadly it is grossly overpriced on CD these days because it is quite a good set. | |
| Link | https://smile.amazon.com/Sondheim-Three-disc-Book-Month-Club/dp/B0043H3NNC/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=Book+of+the+Month+Club+Sondheim&qid=1615869710&sr=8-2 |
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| re: I would have voted for Timothy Nolen | |
| Last Edit: altonido 11:50 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| Posted by: altonido 11:47 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: I would have voted for Timothy Nolen - Billhaven 10:31 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| But Timothy Nolen went on to become a major Sweeney, first in the opera-house premiere for Houston Grand Opera, then for New York City Opera, both in 1984. He played Sweeney for City Opera once again in 2004, opposite Elaine Paige. Nolen can be seen as Judge Turpin in the San Francisco concert production of "Sweeney." | |
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| re: I would have voted for Timothy Nolen | |
| Posted by: pfolson 10:08 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: I would have voted for Timothy Nolen - altonido 11:47 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| I saw Nolen do it at the Marriott Lincolnshire in 1993, and he was brilliant in the role. He's still my favorite Sweeney. The second time I saw that production, there was a school group in the audience, and Nolen was clearly having a terrific time terrorizing the teenage students. As he went up and down the aisle nearest their group, he would often pause and lean into the seats, towering over the kids with his great Sweeney leer. It worked especially well during the scene where they are searching for Toby in the bakehouse. He suddenly appeared from behind a pillar, lantern in hand, got right down in their faces, and bellowed "Toby!" I swear some of their screams were louder than the factory whistle. | |
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| What a fabulous story | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 11:54 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: I would have voted for Timothy Nolen - pfolson 10:08 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
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| Thank you for sharing it! Laura |
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| re: A few potential options. | |
| Posted by: larry13 01:27 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: A few potential options. - portenopete 07:56 am EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| It's been discussed here before(AlanScott, I believe)that Cullum WAS offered the role but declined it, possibly due to the vocal difficulties he'd recently experienced with ON THE 20TH CENTURY and/or his desire then to reassert himself in straight plays. He reportedly came to regret his decision. I'm sure Drake would have had the gravitas. it's Anthony Perkins I can't imagine having it. |
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| re: A few potential options. | |
| Posted by: pecansforall 04:38 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few potential options. - larry13 01:27 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| Here is a video clip where John Cullum discusses Sweeney Todd. | |
| Link | JOHN CULLUM ON SHOWS HE DIDN'T DO |
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| Alfred Drake? | |
| Posted by: stevemr 04:18 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few potential options. - larry13 01:27 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| Alfred Drake??? At that age, it's hard to imagine he would have still had the stamina to do 8 shows a week. (I know...George Hearn). He was primarily doing non-singing parts by then. I can imagine him doing a few numbers from the show magnificently, though, perhaps in a concert setting. But just imagine, if he coulda and hadda done it, it could have been the kind of late career revelation that legends are made of --- like Merman in Gypsy. | |
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| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Posted by: Snowysdad 06:43 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: Alfred Drake? - stevemr 04:18 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| I have to agree that Fred Drake was beyond the stamina required for Sweeney at this stage (he was 64 in 1978) and earlier years of indulgent drinking made him not a rigorous 64. Maybe in a concert version for a few performances only, but not a regular Broadway run. 10 years earlier one can only salivate over the idea. | |
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| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Posted by: portenopete 07:05 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfred Drake? - Snowysdad 06:43 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| Thanks for your contribution! I must confess I never saw Mr. Drake nor did I know his general state of health later in his career, apart from his honorary Tony appearance in 1990 (or thereabouts). But glad my idea of him doing it appeals! He never really got to do anything "modern", did he? After headlining in maybe the most modern show of its time (Oklahoma!). He'd have been ideal for several Sondheim roles: Miles Glorious, Ben Stone (and later Dmitri Weissman), Frederik Egerman or Count Carl-Magnus, Sweeney (or later, Judge Turpin) and The Mysterious Man/Narrator. Had he been in good enough health and voice, all those roles might have worked at the time of their initial productions. |
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| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Posted by: Snowysdad 12:38 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfred Drake? - portenopete 07:05 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| Fred's talents lay in a highly individualistic direction. He was not a traditional leading man, he had an insouciance about him that colored all the roles he originated, especially Fred Graham and Hajj. Note that when James Hammerstein went to direct what he hoped would be a revitalized production of Oklahoma he added a line for Curly to emphasize this characteristic, "Who laughs at your jokes" inserted into "People will say we're in love." To my mind it clarifies the Fred Drake in the part, takes the character away from a cardboard leading man. The only role I know that he played that did not have this prevailing characteristic is The King in you know who and I. Rodgers says he was terrific and I have no reason to disbelieve him. Listen to the cast album of Sing Out Sweet Land and again this characteristic comes through, even though Burl Ives was supposed to be the sort of comic American folk tale teller. I guess its time to reveal that I knew Fred, he introduced me to Burl and I had several courses with Elie Seigmeister who wrote Sing Out at Hofstra so some of this is insider information. Anyhow Fred was one of a kind and therefore several of his leading roles are almost impossible to cast effectively. I didn't mean to suggest that he was completely debilitated by the time of Sweeney, because he had stopped drinking circa very early 1960s, but the years before that of hard living made him 64 going on mid to late 70s rather than 64 but able to play younger. He was a unique talent. | |
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| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Posted by: portenopete 11:55 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfred Drake? - Snowysdad 12:38 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
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| Thanks for this remembrance from an inside perspective. I admit to knowing little about Mr. Drake and am interested in your impressions of him and his unique gifts. Seeing him sing "Where Is The Life That Late I Led?" has definitely spoiled me for any future Fred Grahams. (Jack Cassidy might have come near; another star who blazed bright but couldn't sustain it into his later years- more tragically than Alfred Drake.) | |
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| Jack Cassidy | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 02:08 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 02:01 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfred Drake? - portenopete 11:55 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
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| Jack Cassidy had many assets -- looks, voice, etc., but he unfortunately never really became a big star -- certainly not in comparison to his one-time wife Shirley Jones or his sons David and Shaun. He had to have been aware of that. Alas, he didn't really have "later years" as he died tragically in a fire at age 49. Lots of stories about him abound though, from Shirley Jones herself and also legends about his start in the business with the likes of Cole Porter. But Cassidy really had the talent, the whole package (and how! according to Shirley's autobiography), and it's something of a mystery or of show biz's capricious nature of why he didn't become a big star. Yes, he would have been a great Fred Graham. | |
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| re: Jack Cassidy | |
| Posted by: bobby2 03:32 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: Jack Cassidy - PlayWiz 02:01 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
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| Didn't he turn down the role of Ted Baxter on Mary Tyler Moore? Big mistake. | |
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| re: Jack Cassidy | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 07:47 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 07:46 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Jack Cassidy - bobby2 03:32 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
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| Jack Cassidy had won an Emmy a couple years earlier for his character Oscar North on the TV sitcom He & She. That character was very similar to (and supposedly the inspiration for) Ted Baxter. I imagine Cassidy did not want to repeat himself so soon and turned down the Baxter role. Timing and luck are a large part of success in show business, I guess. | |
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| re: Jack Cassidy | |
| Posted by: FAIRBOY 11:14 am EDT 03/18/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Jack Cassidy - BroadwayTonyJ 07:46 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
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| Cassidy did not win the Emmy but he certainly was good in that sophisticated comedy series. | |
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| re: Jack Cassidy | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 04:43 pm EDT 03/18/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Jack Cassidy - FAIRBOY 11:14 am EDT 03/18/21 | |
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| You're right. Thanks for the correction. Cassidy won the Tony for She Loves Me. However, he was only Emmy-nominated for He & She. He was also Tony-nominated for Fade Out -- Fade In. There was definitely a sameness to many of his Broadway roles. I assume he was unavoidably typecast, the roles were good, he needed the work and took them. However, TV is a totally different medium. I think it is understandable why he rejected the role of Ted Baxter after having created the role of Oscar North. |
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| re: Jack Cassidy | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:49 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Jack Cassidy - BroadwayTonyJ 07:46 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
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| I imagine Cassidy did not want to repeat himself so soon I guess 3 years was long enough to go from Kodaly in She Loves Me to Kodaly, um, Max in Superman? :-) |
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| re: Jack Cassidy | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 11:18 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Jack Cassidy - Chromolume 08:49 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
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| Kodaly and Max are both jerks, but She Loves Me and Superman are so different in so many ways that I can't imagine he considered Max as repeating himself. I mostly know Cassidy from his cast albums, although I was a fan of He & She, I did see the Hal Baxter episode on the Mary Tyler Moore Show, and I enjoyed Mr. Magoo's Christmas Carol as well as The Eiger Sanction. I'm a huge fan of Cassidy's performances on all those Broadway and studio cast recordings, but I always thought they contained a tad too much ham and/or ego. Nevertheless, he was very talented and one of the very solid Broadway musical actors of the 50's and 60's. Just IMO. |
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| re: Jack Cassidy | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 09:36 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Jack Cassidy - Chromolume 08:49 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
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| Cassidy did get star billing in "Superman" -- below the title, but still "Starring Jack Cassidy", so that probably was an incentive. He did get kind of typecast in those kinds of vain jerk kinds of roles though but he sounds just wonderful on the recording. | |
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| re: Jack Cassidy | |
| Posted by: portenopete 05:52 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Jack Cassidy - bobby2 03:32 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
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| I know he was considered at least. He ended up guesting as Ted's equally vainglorious brother! | |
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| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:38 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfred Drake? - Snowysdad 12:38 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
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| Note that when James Hammerstein went to direct what he hoped would be a revitalized production of Oklahoma he added a line for Curly to emphasize this characteristic, "Who laughs at your jokes" inserted into "People will say we're in love." Note that that line was in the original published vocal score, years before James Hammerstein directed the show. I also have an older version of the script with that line, that again, way predates James' production. |
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| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 10:34 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 10:34 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfred Drake? - portenopete 07:05 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| I don't think Drake would have been particularly good casting physically for Miles in "Forum" who is supposed to be quite physically imposing. I think Drake was about 5'7 or 5'8" but with terrific stage presence seemed taller. Some of those other roles, especially Frederik I think he would have been outstanding. | |
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| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Posted by: portenopete 11:57 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfred Drake? - PlayWiz 10:34 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| I hadn't realised he was that small, although there might have been mileage in a small Miles. Perhaps the mind would have wondered just what part of Miles is so "gloriousous"..... | |
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| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Posted by: lordofspeech 04:39 am EDT 03/17/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfred Drake? - portenopete 11:57 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
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| Drake played the uncle-King in Richard Burton’s Hamlet. Just being who he was, with that sexy, somewhat wicked air, he brought a lot to a character that needs that kind of starpower. | |
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| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Posted by: portenopete 05:00 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: Alfred Drake? - stevemr 04:18 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| "it could have been the kind of late career revelation that legends are made of --- like Merman in Gypsy." Merman was only 51 when Gypsy opened so I don't know if I'd label that as "late career" (Dolly at 62 might've counted), but I concede that Alfred Drake at 64 was probably too old, but he was still worthy of consideration. (John Raitt was a few years younger but I am not sure he'd have been well-suited to the role.) One of the great things about Sweeney is the latitude the piece offers in terms of casting: the pairings over the years have been delightfully unique. |
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| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 04:41 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 04:40 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: Alfred Drake? - stevemr 04:18 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| Alfred Drake as Sweeney would have been more likely a Sweeney, who while bitter about what had happened to him and his family, would have played up much more the charming of Mrs. Lovett to get her on his side (even though she's been stuck on him since way back, and he doesn't really need to). Drake had done "Gigi" around 1974 on Broadway so it wasn't that long after that "Sweeney" was mounted. As of of musical theater's most charming leading men, his Sweeney might even have been more charming initially to his barbershop customers before slashing them, which might have been even more terrifying. | |
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| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Posted by: portenopete 05:03 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfred Drake? - PlayWiz 04:40 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| Interesting. I have often thought while listening to Cariou or watching Hearn and Ross Petty (back in 1982) just why Mrs. Lovett continues to harbour sexual and romantic feelings towards him. He's so obviously monomaniacal that her persistence comes off as evidence of profound stupidity. I found Michael Ball opposite Imelda Staunton managed to make him a wee bit sexy, which solved some of that. | |
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| Laurence Guittard ??? n/m | |
| Posted by: FleetStreetBarber 10:40 am EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: A few potential options. - portenopete 07:56 am EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| I'd imagine Hearn was actually near top of the list... | |
| Posted by: ShowGoer 11:00 am EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: Laurence Guittard ??? n/m - FleetStreetBarber 10:40 am EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| He'd been around for almost 2 decades and was in his late 40's when he replaced Cariou... but aside from long stints in the road companies of Camelot and 1776, he'd had half a dozen Broadway credits by then, with his most recent being originating 2 leading roles in 2 short-lived shows in the 9 previous months – playing Papa opposite Liv Ullman's Mama in the Richard Rodgers "I Remember Mama" musical, and then, less than 2 months before joining "Sweeney", playing the family patriarch in a brief revival of "Watch on the Rhine", for which as far as I can tell he received the best reviews in the cast. Cariou and Lansbury did the show for more than a year before they left in March 1980, so producers probably realized it only had a little longer in it after they left (and in fact it did close just 3 months later, in June of that year). Also bear in mind that Cariou had had well-known, if not well-publicized, vocal issues during that year-long run. With recent Tony-winner Dorothy Loudon on board to replace Lansbury in her scene-stealing Tony-winning role, and with Cariou never having been a huge box-office draw in the first place, producers probably figured they had some nominal star power with Loudon, and wanted to make sure they replaced Cariou with someone who wouldn't have any trouble singing the role and sustaining it. (with an eye, presumably, to someone who would also be willing to tour with the show when it went out on the road). All the names below are good ones and I bet many did come up in conversations... but I'm sure Hearn seemed like not only a safe choice, but someone they could in fact feel highly confident about. How right they were. |
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| re: I'd imagine Hearn was actually near top of the list... | |
| Posted by: FleetStreetBarber 03:12 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: I'd imagine Hearn was actually near top of the list... - ShowGoer 11:00 am EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| "Cariou and Lansbury did the show for more than a year before they left in March 1980, so producers probably realized it only had a little longer in it after they left (and in fact it did close just 3 months later, in June of that year)." One thing the producers did not count on was a NYC transit strike that began on April 1, 1980 and lasted for 11 days. That was back in the day when a greater percentage of locals filled the theaters than do today (or did until a year ago). The strike pretty much took the wind out of the sails of any momentum that might have been generated by the recasting. |
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| re: I'd imagine Hearn was actually near top of the list... | |
| Posted by: portenopete 11:48 am EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: I'd imagine Hearn was actually near top of the list... - ShowGoer 11:00 am EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| "All the names below are good ones and I bet many did come up in conversations... but I'm sure Hearn seemed like not only a safe choice, but someone they could in fact feel highly confident about. How right they were." The miracle is that arguably was singing it even better thirty years later! When he replaced Bryn Terfel I was knocked out how great he sounded! |
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| re: I'd imagine Hearn was actually near top of the list... | |
| Posted by: BHandshy 09:44 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: I'd imagine Hearn was actually near top of the list... - portenopete 11:48 am EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| Wasn't it more like 20 years later? But, yeah. I was stunned by how much better he was (both acting and singing) in the role all those years later. | |
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| re: I'd imagine Hearn was actually near top of the list... | |
| Posted by: portenopete 10:30 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: I'd imagine Hearn was actually near top of the list... - BHandshy 09:44 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| You're right! I can't believe that concert was 20 years ago! I was thinking "Maybe a decade ago.....". | |
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| Who did Hearn replace in Whodunit? | |
| Posted by: bobby2 12:09 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: I'd imagine Hearn was actually near top of the list... - portenopete 10:30 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
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| I vaguely remember from childhood he took over for someone who quit. Posters around the city had his name pasted over the original star. | |
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| Jack Weston | |
| Posted by: ShowGoer 07:06 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: Who did Hearn replace in Whodunit? - bobby2 12:09 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
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| (see below) Wish I’d been around to see this one – big Anthony Shaffer fan, and I’d just started to go to the theater in time to see shows like Corpse, Accomplice, and Solitary Confinement... all enjoyable, but I missed the heyday of the Broadway comedy-thriller - Sleuth, Deathtrap, Whodunnit, and of course, Moose Murders! |
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| Link | https://www.nytimes.com/1982/12/15/theater/whodunnit-is-postponed.html |
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| re: Jack Weston | |
| Posted by: bobby2 03:30 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: Jack Weston - ShowGoer 07:06 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
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| I saw Deathtrap on a school field trip. I remember my teacher saying it was the only time she'd ever been to a play that was actually scary. It was. It was like going to a slasher film. People were screaming in shock and freight at times. It was interesting for me because I had seen a summer stock production with George Grizzard (odd that it was able to be done while it was still on Broadway.) Then we went on the field trip and saw Farely Granger but I knew where all the scares were coming. I miss the stage thriller. I wish they'd come back. |
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