Threaded Order Chronological Order
| Alfred Drake? | |
| Posted by: stevemr 04:18 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few potential options. - larry13 01:27 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
|
|
|
| Alfred Drake??? At that age, it's hard to imagine he would have still had the stamina to do 8 shows a week. (I know...George Hearn). He was primarily doing non-singing parts by then. I can imagine him doing a few numbers from the show magnificently, though, perhaps in a concert setting. But just imagine, if he coulda and hadda done it, it could have been the kind of late career revelation that legends are made of --- like Merman in Gypsy. | |
| reply to this message |
| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Posted by: Snowysdad 06:43 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: Alfred Drake? - stevemr 04:18 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
|
|
|
| I have to agree that Fred Drake was beyond the stamina required for Sweeney at this stage (he was 64 in 1978) and earlier years of indulgent drinking made him not a rigorous 64. Maybe in a concert version for a few performances only, but not a regular Broadway run. 10 years earlier one can only salivate over the idea. | |
| reply to this message |
| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Posted by: portenopete 07:05 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfred Drake? - Snowysdad 06:43 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
|
|
|
| Thanks for your contribution! I must confess I never saw Mr. Drake nor did I know his general state of health later in his career, apart from his honorary Tony appearance in 1990 (or thereabouts). But glad my idea of him doing it appeals! He never really got to do anything "modern", did he? After headlining in maybe the most modern show of its time (Oklahoma!). He'd have been ideal for several Sondheim roles: Miles Glorious, Ben Stone (and later Dmitri Weissman), Frederik Egerman or Count Carl-Magnus, Sweeney (or later, Judge Turpin) and The Mysterious Man/Narrator. Had he been in good enough health and voice, all those roles might have worked at the time of their initial productions. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Posted by: Snowysdad 12:38 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfred Drake? - portenopete 07:05 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
|
|
|
| Fred's talents lay in a highly individualistic direction. He was not a traditional leading man, he had an insouciance about him that colored all the roles he originated, especially Fred Graham and Hajj. Note that when James Hammerstein went to direct what he hoped would be a revitalized production of Oklahoma he added a line for Curly to emphasize this characteristic, "Who laughs at your jokes" inserted into "People will say we're in love." To my mind it clarifies the Fred Drake in the part, takes the character away from a cardboard leading man. The only role I know that he played that did not have this prevailing characteristic is The King in you know who and I. Rodgers says he was terrific and I have no reason to disbelieve him. Listen to the cast album of Sing Out Sweet Land and again this characteristic comes through, even though Burl Ives was supposed to be the sort of comic American folk tale teller. I guess its time to reveal that I knew Fred, he introduced me to Burl and I had several courses with Elie Seigmeister who wrote Sing Out at Hofstra so some of this is insider information. Anyhow Fred was one of a kind and therefore several of his leading roles are almost impossible to cast effectively. I didn't mean to suggest that he was completely debilitated by the time of Sweeney, because he had stopped drinking circa very early 1960s, but the years before that of hard living made him 64 going on mid to late 70s rather than 64 but able to play younger. He was a unique talent. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Posted by: portenopete 11:55 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfred Drake? - Snowysdad 12:38 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
|
|
|
| Thanks for this remembrance from an inside perspective. I admit to knowing little about Mr. Drake and am interested in your impressions of him and his unique gifts. Seeing him sing "Where Is The Life That Late I Led?" has definitely spoiled me for any future Fred Grahams. (Jack Cassidy might have come near; another star who blazed bright but couldn't sustain it into his later years- more tragically than Alfred Drake.) | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| Jack Cassidy | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 02:08 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 02:01 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfred Drake? - portenopete 11:55 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
|
|
|
| Jack Cassidy had many assets -- looks, voice, etc., but he unfortunately never really became a big star -- certainly not in comparison to his one-time wife Shirley Jones or his sons David and Shaun. He had to have been aware of that. Alas, he didn't really have "later years" as he died tragically in a fire at age 49. Lots of stories about him abound though, from Shirley Jones herself and also legends about his start in the business with the likes of Cole Porter. But Cassidy really had the talent, the whole package (and how! according to Shirley's autobiography), and it's something of a mystery or of show biz's capricious nature of why he didn't become a big star. Yes, he would have been a great Fred Graham. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Jack Cassidy | |
| Posted by: bobby2 03:32 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: Jack Cassidy - PlayWiz 02:01 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
|
|
|
| Didn't he turn down the role of Ted Baxter on Mary Tyler Moore? Big mistake. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Jack Cassidy | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 07:47 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 07:46 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Jack Cassidy - bobby2 03:32 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
|
|
|
| Jack Cassidy had won an Emmy a couple years earlier for his character Oscar North on the TV sitcom He & She. That character was very similar to (and supposedly the inspiration for) Ted Baxter. I imagine Cassidy did not want to repeat himself so soon and turned down the Baxter role. Timing and luck are a large part of success in show business, I guess. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Jack Cassidy | |
| Posted by: FAIRBOY 11:14 am EDT 03/18/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Jack Cassidy - BroadwayTonyJ 07:46 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
|
|
|
| Cassidy did not win the Emmy but he certainly was good in that sophisticated comedy series. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Jack Cassidy | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 04:43 pm EDT 03/18/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Jack Cassidy - FAIRBOY 11:14 am EDT 03/18/21 | |
|
|
|
| You're right. Thanks for the correction. Cassidy won the Tony for She Loves Me. However, he was only Emmy-nominated for He & She. He was also Tony-nominated for Fade Out -- Fade In. There was definitely a sameness to many of his Broadway roles. I assume he was unavoidably typecast, the roles were good, he needed the work and took them. However, TV is a totally different medium. I think it is understandable why he rejected the role of Ted Baxter after having created the role of Oscar North. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Jack Cassidy | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:49 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Jack Cassidy - BroadwayTonyJ 07:46 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
|
|
|
| I imagine Cassidy did not want to repeat himself so soon I guess 3 years was long enough to go from Kodaly in She Loves Me to Kodaly, um, Max in Superman? :-) |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Jack Cassidy | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 11:18 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Jack Cassidy - Chromolume 08:49 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
|
|
|
| Kodaly and Max are both jerks, but She Loves Me and Superman are so different in so many ways that I can't imagine he considered Max as repeating himself. I mostly know Cassidy from his cast albums, although I was a fan of He & She, I did see the Hal Baxter episode on the Mary Tyler Moore Show, and I enjoyed Mr. Magoo's Christmas Carol as well as The Eiger Sanction. I'm a huge fan of Cassidy's performances on all those Broadway and studio cast recordings, but I always thought they contained a tad too much ham and/or ego. Nevertheless, he was very talented and one of the very solid Broadway musical actors of the 50's and 60's. Just IMO. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Jack Cassidy | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 09:36 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Jack Cassidy - Chromolume 08:49 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
|
|
|
| Cassidy did get star billing in "Superman" -- below the title, but still "Starring Jack Cassidy", so that probably was an incentive. He did get kind of typecast in those kinds of vain jerk kinds of roles though but he sounds just wonderful on the recording. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Jack Cassidy | |
| Posted by: portenopete 05:52 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Jack Cassidy - bobby2 03:32 pm EDT 03/16/21 | |
|
|
|
| I know he was considered at least. He ended up guesting as Ted's equally vainglorious brother! | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:38 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfred Drake? - Snowysdad 12:38 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
|
|
|
| Note that when James Hammerstein went to direct what he hoped would be a revitalized production of Oklahoma he added a line for Curly to emphasize this characteristic, "Who laughs at your jokes" inserted into "People will say we're in love." Note that that line was in the original published vocal score, years before James Hammerstein directed the show. I also have an older version of the script with that line, that again, way predates James' production. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 10:34 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 10:34 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfred Drake? - portenopete 07:05 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
|
|
|
| I don't think Drake would have been particularly good casting physically for Miles in "Forum" who is supposed to be quite physically imposing. I think Drake was about 5'7 or 5'8" but with terrific stage presence seemed taller. Some of those other roles, especially Frederik I think he would have been outstanding. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Posted by: portenopete 11:57 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfred Drake? - PlayWiz 10:34 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
|
|
|
| I hadn't realised he was that small, although there might have been mileage in a small Miles. Perhaps the mind would have wondered just what part of Miles is so "gloriousous"..... | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Posted by: lordofspeech 04:39 am EDT 03/17/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfred Drake? - portenopete 11:57 am EDT 03/16/21 | |
|
|
|
| Drake played the uncle-King in Richard Burton’s Hamlet. Just being who he was, with that sexy, somewhat wicked air, he brought a lot to a character that needs that kind of starpower. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Posted by: portenopete 05:00 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: Alfred Drake? - stevemr 04:18 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
|
|
|
| "it could have been the kind of late career revelation that legends are made of --- like Merman in Gypsy." Merman was only 51 when Gypsy opened so I don't know if I'd label that as "late career" (Dolly at 62 might've counted), but I concede that Alfred Drake at 64 was probably too old, but he was still worthy of consideration. (John Raitt was a few years younger but I am not sure he'd have been well-suited to the role.) One of the great things about Sweeney is the latitude the piece offers in terms of casting: the pairings over the years have been delightfully unique. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 04:41 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 04:40 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: Alfred Drake? - stevemr 04:18 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
|
|
|
| Alfred Drake as Sweeney would have been more likely a Sweeney, who while bitter about what had happened to him and his family, would have played up much more the charming of Mrs. Lovett to get her on his side (even though she's been stuck on him since way back, and he doesn't really need to). Drake had done "Gigi" around 1974 on Broadway so it wasn't that long after that "Sweeney" was mounted. As of of musical theater's most charming leading men, his Sweeney might even have been more charming initially to his barbershop customers before slashing them, which might have been even more terrifying. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Alfred Drake? | |
| Posted by: portenopete 05:03 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Alfred Drake? - PlayWiz 04:40 pm EDT 03/15/21 | |
|
|
|
| Interesting. I have often thought while listening to Cariou or watching Hearn and Ross Petty (back in 1982) just why Mrs. Lovett continues to harbour sexual and romantic feelings towards him. He's so obviously monomaniacal that her persistence comes off as evidence of profound stupidity. I found Michael Ball opposite Imelda Staunton managed to make him a wee bit sexy, which solved some of that. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
Time to render: 0.060799 seconds.