Threaded Order Chronological Order
| re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture | |
| Posted by: Quicheo 04:54 pm EDT 03/17/21 | |
| In reply to: re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture - Billhaven 03:13 pm EDT 03/17/21 | |
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| Yes, far better for her to be "glad [she] can be oversexed again". Or okay with a man hitting her because it feels like a kiss when you love someone. Or as long as a man gives her money, then "sex is here to stay". Or that "everyone goes down well with beer". Or that literally sacrificing your voice to be "part of [a man's] world". Or any of the other unfiltered lessons learned from musical theater. Some things are appropriate and empowering for some people and offensive, inappropriate, or vulgar for others. None of these may be good role models for your goddaughter. None of the are the end of civilization. Many of them shock and delight. And some have helped people feel a sense of joy and freedom that was entirely good for them. To each, their own. For me, my anaconda don't want none unless...the rhyme is perfect and the scan sublime. |
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| re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture | |
| Posted by: Billhaven 05:39 pm EDT 03/17/21 | |
| In reply to: re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture - Quicheo 04:54 pm EDT 03/17/21 | |
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| Never said it was the end of civilization, but yeah, I'd rather have her learn the words to Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered that Wet Ass Pussy. Call me crazy. | |
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| re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture | |
| Posted by: MRH 10:13 pm EDT 03/17/21 | |
| In reply to: re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture - Billhaven 05:39 pm EDT 03/17/21 | |
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| Couldn't be said better. Some people just want to be contrary and appear 'hip' and with the times. You don't need to like and push WAP and kids and girls singing about their pussy to be hip in my opinion. (As a straight man who is all for sexuality!) | |
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| Um, people aren't trying to be hip, but some folks are really obsessed with the lyrics to this song | |
| Last Edit: Singapore/Fling 11:18 pm EDT 03/17/21 | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 11:05 pm EDT 03/17/21 | |
| In reply to: re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture - MRH 10:13 pm EDT 03/17/21 | |
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| How did this turn into people wanting to appear hip and with it? This thread only exists because a handful of (I'm gonna guess older men) were scandalized by the song and convinced that civilization is ending. That's been proven to be nonsense by a whole bunch of people who haven't attempted to prove how hip they are, but have simply pointed out the overreaction. Meanwhile, a few of y'all are really obsessed with this song and the idea of young kids singing about wet ass pussy (which I didn't even know was the name of the song until you salacious Sallies told me), even though it sounds like it hasn't happened yet. So you're hearing this song, obsessing over the lyrics, and then imagining children singing it? That's odd, but again, as long as no one is harmed, to each their own. |
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| re: Um, people aren't trying to be hip, but some folks are really obsessed with the lyrics to this song | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 03:35 pm EDT 03/18/21 | |
| In reply to: Um, people aren't trying to be hip, but some folks are really obsessed with the lyrics to this song - Singapore/Fling 11:05 pm EDT 03/17/21 | |
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| "A few of y'all are really obsessed with this song and the idea of young kids singing about wet ass pussy (which I didn't even know was the name of the song until you salacious Sallies told me), even though it sounds like it hasn't happened yet." Umm, WHAT????? "So you're hearing this song, obsessing over the lyrics, and then imagining children singing it? That's odd, but again, as long as no one is harmed, to each their own." I'm having difficult comprehending this sentence as well, but can you please explain what's "odd" about some people "imagining" children singing this song? |
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| You don't have to wait to see some kids enjoying the song with their parents | |
| Posted by: DistantDrumming 10:09 pm EDT 03/18/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Um, people aren't trying to be hip, but some folks are really obsessed with the lyrics to this song - Michael_Portantiere 03:35 pm EDT 03/18/21 | |
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| It's not exactly Maria and the Von Trapp kids learning the words to Do Re Mi, but I still find it rather heartwarming. (And, yes, some of these "kids" are over 18.) | |
| Link | WAP - family entertainment |
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| re: You don't have to wait to see some kids enjoying the song with their parents | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 10:17 pm EDT 03/18/21 | |
| In reply to: You don't have to wait to see some kids enjoying the song with their parents - DistantDrumming 10:09 pm EDT 03/18/21 | |
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| This video is priceless! That said, I wonder how much of this is real - but still...;-) |
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| re: You don't have to wait to see some kids enjoying the song with their parents | |
| Posted by: DistantDrumming 10:19 pm EDT 03/18/21 | |
| In reply to: re: You don't have to wait to see some kids enjoying the song with their parents - Chromolume 10:17 pm EDT 03/18/21 | |
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| I mean, undoubtedly, people stage all kinds of things for TikTok, but there are dozens of these compilations of people's parents and grandparents reacting to WAP and most of them look pretty genuine to me. My favorites are actually the parents who are shocked, but who don't overreact, but instead laugh with their kids. More below... |
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| Link | ... a FEMALE, Dear |
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| re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture | |
| Posted by: Quicheo 06:37 pm EDT 03/17/21 | |
| In reply to: re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture - Billhaven 05:39 pm EDT 03/17/21 | |
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| My point was that a person has some control over the listening habits of 8 year-olds. One needed chose among inappropriate exposures. But I am quite confident you know that. And I'm not really arguing other than to say that some people really like WAP and find it as delightful as we may find "Bewitched..." And none of those people need be your goddaughter. |
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| re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture | |
| Posted by: MRH 10:14 pm EDT 03/17/21 | |
| In reply to: re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture - Quicheo 06:37 pm EDT 03/17/21 | |
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| Have you seen young children interacting on the Internet -- kids now have access often, and they hear things from their friends, etc. Maybe not 8, but definitely 10,11,12 -- do you want your daugther that age singing about her wet ass pussy -- instead of "Baby it's cold outside." If so, fine. But that's the situation and choice. | |
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| re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 11:07 pm EDT 03/17/21 | |
| In reply to: re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture - MRH 10:14 pm EDT 03/17/21 | |
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| Would I rather a child sing about their wet ass pussy or sing a song that can easily be interpreted as a man coercing a woman to sleep with him? I mean, both are kind of gross to me, but at least one of them lets the women be in charge. | |
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| re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 03:37 pm EDT 03/18/21 | |
| In reply to: re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture - Singapore/Fling 11:07 pm EDT 03/17/21 | |
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| "Would I rather a child sing about their wet ass pussy or sing a song that can easily be interpreted as a man coercing a woman to sleep with him? I mean, both are kind of gross to me, but at least one of them lets the women be in charge." Well, that interpretation is very......interesting. |
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| re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture | |
| Last Edit: Singapore/Fling 05:20 pm EDT 03/18/21 | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 05:14 pm EDT 03/18/21 | |
| In reply to: re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture - Michael_Portantiere 03:37 pm EDT 03/18/21 | |
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| So for the past 5 years our entire culture (including this board) has discusses near every Christmas season how "Baby It's Cold Outside" sounds a little rapey, and only sounds a little less rapey when it's gender reversed. (I don't recall it coming up as a topic this past year, so perhaps we've all put that conversation to bed.) Not sure how you missed it. The whole song is one person saying all the reasons they need to leave the house and the other person ignoring all of their concerns while plying them with more drinks. Midway through, there's this observation: Ah, you're very pushy you know? I like to think of it as opportunistic And the ending is: Okay fine, just another drink then That took a lot of convincing! Which, just as written words, is kind of gross. The song can be approached in a way where they're both in on the game, but it can also be approached where one of them is breaking down the other. Either way, we've been talking about this song in these terms for years, so there's nothing new, interesting, nor unique to me in that observation. In any event, there's a rich irony in someone who is scandalized by the self-created thought of young girls singing about their pussies insisting that they sing instead about not being able to leave someone's house while being plied with cigarettes and booze. Seems odd to me. |
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| re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:45 am EDT 03/19/21 | |
| In reply to: re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture - Singapore/Fling 05:14 pm EDT 03/18/21 | |
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| "The song can be approached in a way where they're both in on the game, but it can also be approached where one of them is breaking down the other." I have always seen it played the first way -- as intended by the songwriter -- and never once seen it played the second way. "In any event, there's a rich irony in someone who is scandalized by the self-created thought of young girls singing about their pussies insisting that they sing instead about not being able to leave someone's house while being plied with cigarettes and booze. Seems odd to me." Of course, no one is insisting that young girls sing "Baby, It's Cold Outside" INSTEAD of "WAP," so I don't know where you got that from. At any rate, I continue to find your perspective on this exceedingly odd -- so I guess we're even :-) Fun fact: If you actually pay attention to the actual lyrics of "Baby....," the persuader is not actually "plying" the other person with booze or cigarettes. Rather, the person who keeps saying maybe s/he should leave first brings up booze by saying "Well, maybe just a half a drink more" and later brings up cigarettes by saying "Maybe just a cigarette more." And there is absolutely no indication whatsoever in the song that the person who keeps saying may s/he should leave is UNABLE to leave. I always thing it's best, in discussions like this, to confine ourselves to what's actually written, as opposed to what we have created in our minds. (And yes, I'm well aware of the highly controversial "What's in this drink?" line, but I don't have the energy to get into discussion of that right now.) |
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| re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 10:00 pm EDT 03/18/21 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:58 pm EDT 03/18/21 | |
| In reply to: re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture - Singapore/Fling 05:14 pm EDT 03/18/21 | |
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| The song can be approached in a way where they're both in on the game Yes, it can. And I feel that if Loesser wanted to write a song about dark seduction and rape, he would have written (and did write) "Don't Cry" instead. The playful music of "Baby It's Cold Outside" does, I think, signal that she's playing the game right along with him. The darkly seductive (and downright menacing) music in "Don't Cry" tells a different story. Too much has been made over this whole thing. There are better musical topics for future Christmases: Why does Burl Ives think we're all deaf? Exactly who would build a "Parson Brown" snowman, and what's with all this conspiring in front of the fireplace? (Enough with the conspiracy theories...) Can that drummer twerp play ANYTHING except pa-ruppa-pum-pum already? Besot??? |
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| re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture | |
| Posted by: DistantDrumming 08:28 pm EDT 03/18/21 | |
| In reply to: re: WAP, Sondheim, and the Degradation of Culture - Singapore/Fling 05:14 pm EDT 03/18/21 | |
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| Snopes has a good summary of the broader conversation that Sing'/Fling is referencing. | |
| Link | https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/12/18/baby-its-cold-outside/ |
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