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| Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: portenopete 08:06 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
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| Hugh Jackman and Santino Fontana? Or Leslie Odom, Jr. and Rob McClure? Or Steven Pasquale and Brandon Uranowitz? Or Andy Karl and Alex Brightman? Or,,,,,? |
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| Some More Dream Casting (long) | |
| Last Edit: GabbyGerard 05:18 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| Posted by: GabbyGerard 05:09 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - portenopete 08:06 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
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| I think Hugh Jackman is the perfect Stone and he could, of course, headline pretty much any musical he wants. If he declined a film version, as others have posted, then my guess is he's not too interested in the property. Though they don't approach his celebrity status, Pasquale and Karl are also very good casting. Other actors, of varying degrees of fame, who would be interesting in the role: Chris Pine, Taye Diggs, James Marsden, Joshua Henry, Jabier Munoz, Ramin Karimloo, and maybe Will Chase. For Stine, McClure and Fontana are both great options. Josh Groban is a name who could nail it. Some other ideas: Norbert Leo Butz, Brian d'Arcy James, Alexander Gemignani, Bryce Pinkham, Miguel Cervantes, and Conrad Ricamora. Some idea for other roles--with the caveat that ages run the gamut because they sort of depend on who's cast as Stine and Stone... Buddy/Irwin: Christian Borle! Martin Short! Also Danny Burstein, Norbert Leo Butz, Roger Bart, and Steven Webber Oolie/Donna: Emily Skinner! Also Leslie Kritzer, Annaleigh Ashford (though she may now be too famous for a role of this size), Ann Harada, Leslie Margerhita, Sarah Stiles, Lindsay Mendez, Ashley Park, Krystina Alabado, and Jennifer Simard Alaura/Carla: Rachel York!!! (How cool would it be for her to be in a revival of this show?) Also Emily Skinner, Karen Olivo, Amber Iman, Carmen Cusack, Alice Ripley, Elizabeth Stanley, and Katrina Lenk Bobbi/Gabby: Ruthie Ann Miles! Also Phillipa Soo, Jessie Mueller, Denée Benton, Jen Collella, Adriane Lenox Mallory/Avril: Ashley de la Rosa, Taylor Louderman, someone we haven't yet heard of! |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: jo 12:35 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - portenopete 08:06 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
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| I remember reading this in the New York Post - attributed to the late Larry Gelbart : "“We tried to interest him in doing the movie version of ‘City of Angels,’ but that didn’t work out. " - referring to Hugh Jackman. Presumably in a movie version, he would have been doing both the Stone and the Stine roles? |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival and feature film ? | |
| Last Edit: SidL 11:39 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| Posted by: SidL 11:30 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - jo 12:35 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| Larry Gelbart wrote the screenplay “Double Feature” which became MOVIE,MOVIE directed by Stanley Donen It also had B&W and IN COLOR sequences Title was changed after Studio (Warner’s) heads had concerns patrons might look up at the marquee and think it was an actual double feature. Did “City of Angels” press interviews with Mr. Gelbart discuss any influence from writing and working on that film ? 1978 film “Movie,Movie” tanked at the box office |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival and feature film ? | |
| Posted by: StageLover 02:17 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival and feature film ? - SidL 11:30 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| I was a teen when MM came out and I enjoyed it. I tried watching it recently and found it a chore. Hmmmm | |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 01:20 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - jo 12:35 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| You have to have 2 different actors as Stine and Stone. Jackman would be fine as Stone, but you would need someone totally different as Stine. The OP's suggestions of Santino Fontana and Rob McClure are good, but they're not film actors. Maybe someone like Chris Pine as Stine would work based on his performance in the Into the Woods film. | |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: Pokernight 02:11 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - BroadwayTonyJ 01:20 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| Tom Hiddleston and James Marsden? | |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 01:28 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - BroadwayTonyJ 01:20 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| You have to have 2 different actors as Stine and Stone. I disagree - it would actually be very interesting to have an actor that could play both roles convincingly on film. If Stone is the man Stine really wishes he were, they should resemble each other. You can't really do that in the stage show, but you could on film. |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 02:39 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 02:12 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - Chromolume 01:28 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| I've never looked at the show quite that way, although what you propose is an interesting idea. I think Stine covets Stone's success with women, his fame, his notoriety, and other qualities -- he'd like to have those attributes but still be Stine and retain his own abilities. I think the relationship of Stine to Stone is more like that of Rick Lyon to Trekkie Monster. It takes a really great actor to play dual roles in a film convincingly. Ronald Colman (in The Prisoner of Zenda) and Bette Davis (in A Stolen Life) made it look easy. Audiences always knew which character they were seeing in both films in every scene. However, fine actors who tried it like Spencer Tracy, Olivia De Havilland, Paul Henreid, and others were a lot less convincing in creating two characters that looked the same but had totally different personalities, yet did not confuse audiences as to which character they were seeing in every scene -- I know I got confused occasionally during the films. I'm not sure Jackman has the ability to pull off such a demanding feat. |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: jo 07:49 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - BroadwayTonyJ 02:12 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| Jackman played dual characters in Chris Nolan's The Prestige. The obsessed magician Robert Angier and the drunken double ( who had a bit of facial prosthetics) Root. Their personas were in direct contrast to each other -- one had the air of a man on a mission to prove that he was the best magician at that time and the other was the actor hired for his resemblance but who was too drunk to be reliable. Actually, Hugh portrayed a third personality in the movie - the lowkey English lord ( Lord Caldlow who adopted the Borden daughter). In reality, he was the English lord who did not want to embarrass his family because he chose to be a magician and kept his identity unknown. Jackman has lately been drawing critical raves for his acting versatility these days ( from Logan to Greatest Showman to Bad Education) and for other past acting portrayals. An early indication was an Aronofsky sci-fi drama where Hugh portrayed 3 personas from three different times ( a Spanish conquistador, an obsessed doctor racing against time to discover a cure for his dying wife's illness, and a man of the future seeking his own path to immortality). Also interesting was his transformation in Les Miserables -- from hardened convict to a respected town mayor to a man who joined the revolutionaries for the sake of his daughter. The late Larry Gelbart probably thought he had the versatility to portray 2 characters with different personas but shared some similarity because Stone was a creation of Stine's mind. |
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| HUGH JACKMAN -- Films, Stage, TV | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 11:31 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 11:26 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - jo 07:49 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| Jackman has had a lot of success in films, primarily as Wolverine. I have enjoyed those films in which I felt he was well cast. I thought his performance in Les Miserables was admirable and powerful at times -- I was not disappointed. I thought The Prestige was not an especially good film and Jackman was out of his depth, just IMO. I'm glad you liked it more than I did. However, when it comes to playing dual roles in a film, I would not put him in the same category as Ronald Colman and Bette Davis. The Greatest Showman got mostly mixed to negative reviews when it opened in movie theaters. I decided to pass on seeing it at that time. Nevertheless, it became a blockbuster hit with audiences and made a ton of money, most likely because of Jackman's undeniable appeal (and talent) as a song and dance man. When it appeared on cable TV, I DVR'd it, but could not watch it all the way through. Jackman gave an agreeable performance, but was it historically accurate? I disliked the film intensely. I think the musical Barnum did a much better job of honestly depicting Barnum's career. I even preferred the Wallace Beery portrayal in the old 1934 film. Again I'm glad that you and millions of others found it more enjoyable than I did. On the Broadway stage, there is no question that the guy is a star of a magnitude we haven't seen in decades, although he's only done 4 shows so far. I saw him twice in The Boy from Oz, which is just an average musical, but Jackman made it something special and turned it into a sizeable hit. I saw the original production of A Steady Rain in Chicago. It's a gripping little play, but rather slight, essentially a series of dueling monologues. At the Royal George, it was well-acted by two very gifted actors who, nevertheless, were not big names -- a wise choice which made the story powerfully effective. I had no desire to see such a slight drama on Broadway with such huge film and stage stars. There is no question that the teaming of Jackman and Craig made for a box office bonanza. Jackman has an engaging personality and his appearances on late night talk shows have always been very entertaining. I've enjoyed watching every one I've been fortunate enough to catch. |
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| re: HUGH JACKMAN -- Films, Stage, TV | |
| Last Edit: jo 12:08 am EDT 03/23/21 | |
| Posted by: jo 12:02 am EDT 03/23/21 | |
| In reply to: HUGH JACKMAN -- Films, Stage, TV - BroadwayTonyJ 11:26 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| To each his own! Many audience members liked The Prestige ( 92% approval rating for Audience Score on Rotten Tomatoes)...and many Nolan fans rate it highly. Interesting quote from a respected actor Robert Downey, Jr on the movie -- "• Robert Downey, Jr. on The Prestige: “It’s like the old film The Seven-Per-Cent Solution – that Sherlock Holmes movie – it was so not what you expected. To me, it was a Ferrari engine of a script, and Christian Bale is always exciting and innovative. The scene where Hugh Jackman is dying and then has a page and a half monologue… How do you deliver a speech like that? But Jackman handled it." The Greatest Showman is not a pure biopic, more of an idealized version of the master impresario developing the central theme of the movie, which is the birth of mass entertainment (aka showbiz). But I prefer the more powertul film adaptation of Les Miserables over The Greatest Showman. The Les Miserables film adaptation focused more on the dramatic elements of Victor Hugo's novel compared to TrevorNunn's original English version. Compare how Valjean's first epiphany, articulated musically and acted very well in The Soliloquy was treated in the film compared to the stage musical treatment ( simply more like a bridge to another timeline). Also, interestingly, the original Paris musical preceding the English version by 5 years was originally written for a baritone and performed by a baritone. It was transposed to accomodate Colm Wilkinson's tenor range when he was cast. But I am also a great fan of the stage musical version per se and have seen it on Broadway, London and even Paris. Acting-wise, The Greatest Showman was not a big challenge for Jackman. But people are impressed with his acting when he discovered how good Jenny Lind was and presented a means to achieve his ambition of being recognized for bringing entertainment to the social register. It is the role of Valjean which presented the much greater challenge and led to an Oscar nomination. If you have seen Bad Education which drew universal raves for his acting, it is another revelation on how nuanced he can create in a portrayal. A heel behind a hero facade. Btw, Wolverine was never an engaging personality, more like a compelling one, as portrayed by him. Have you seen LOGAN - more of a dramatic triumph hailed by both critics and fans? But thanks for your views. |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 08:18 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - jo 07:49 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| Stine is actually a pretty hard sing, and Jackman had a hard time with the musical lines of Jean Valjean; I think he'd be better as Stone with its easier tessitura and vocal demands and have them cast someone else as Stine. | |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:34 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - PlayWiz 08:18 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| Stine is actually a pretty hard sing IMO it's not. It's only 3 songs, one near the top of the show, one at the end of Act I, and one near the end of Act II. That's it. Granted, they're all "big" numbers and rangy (if one actually sings what's on the page), but it certainly has no comparison to Valjean or many other leading roles. Also, the money notes get lower as the show goes on (if sung in the current score keys) - G# in "Double Talk," G in "You're Nothing Without Me," F in "Funny." |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 08:31 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - PlayWiz 08:18 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| Though it's hard to know how much of Jackman's trouble with Valjean had to do with singing the score live on a film shoot for weeks on end. I felt like he got noticeably worse the later in the film we got, and my memory is they shot more or less in order. But I don't think any actor is good enough to pull off "You're Nothing without Me" singing a duet with themselves... nor would that necessarily be appealing to watch. |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 08:44 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:37 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - Singapore/Fling 08:31 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| But I don't think any actor is good enough to pull off "You're Nothing without Me" singing a duet with themselves... nor would that necessarily be appealing to watch. I'm not sure what you mean. It would obviously have to be pre-recorded and lip synched with both parts sung/filmed separately. And don't forget that in the show context, only Stine has the money note at the end (assuming the film took the same path). (I think the OBC recording made some dubious changes to the show's context - including changing the way the show starts musically, and making the end of "You're Nothing Without Me" a sing-off for both of them. On the other hand, they did something wonderfully right in recording the exit music - one of the best, if not THE best, exit music sequences in all of musical theatre.) |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 11:30 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - Chromolume 08:37 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| Well, yes, I know how a movie gets made :-) but the challenge in this idea isn't the logistics, it's the performance. And one of the many reasons this idea wouldn't fly is that it would just be silly. Like, Cats the movie silly. | |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 11:47 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - Singapore/Fling 11:30 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| Exactly. Stine and Stone are two different guys. They shouldn't look like identical twins -- that would just be an unnecessary distraction. What noted fiction writer has ever used his own picture or likeness as the face of his main character, unless the story is a camouflaged autobiography? Has that ever been the intent of City of Angels? I think it would be a mistake to take such a radical approach when committing to film such a well-regarded stage musical. Just IMO. | |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 01:45 am EDT 03/23/21 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 01:42 am EDT 03/23/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - BroadwayTonyJ 11:47 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| But then how come every other character in the "real life" part of the show has a counterpart in the film part played by the same actor? Are you saying that's silly too? Isn't that actually ignoring the entire conceit of the show? In that sense, I think the movie version of the show would be able to do the one thing the stage show couldn't - give Stine his screen counterpart. |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Last Edit: jo 08:17 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| Posted by: jo 08:16 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - jo 07:49 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| Hey, he's taken on a new type of role lately -- Seen skiing with champion alpine skier Lindsey Vonn, Hugh broke into song while doing slalom moves (One Day More).LOL! https://twitter.com/RealHughJackman/status/1372940327523389442?s=20 |
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| Link | https://twitter.com/RealHughJackman/status/1372940327523389442?s=20 |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Last Edit: MockingbirdGirl 07:43 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 07:42 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - Chromolume 01:28 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| they should resemble each other. You can't really do that in the stage show... 400 years of The Comedy of Errors suggests otherwise! :-D |
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| So basically any male actor. | |
| Posted by: dramedy 08:44 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
| In reply to: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - portenopete 08:06 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
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| I like the show but can a commercial revival be successful? I think 20th century and sweet charity are stronger musicals. I put city with Barnum—musicals I liked and enjoyed and probably never see again. | |
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| re: So basically any male actor. | |
| Posted by: StageLover 03:27 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: So basically any male actor. - dramedy 08:44 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
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| CITY OF ANGELS was far more popular than ON THE 20TH CENTURY, a show I love. | |
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| re: So basically any male actor. | |
| Posted by: portenopete 09:24 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
| In reply to: So basically any male actor. - dramedy 08:44 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
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| On the contrary. I considered probably 100 current Broadway musical stars. Most didn't feel vocally right, temperamentally suited or very period. Admittedly some of my suggestions are not as appealing in terms of wattage. But they have all headlined major musicals on Broadway. It's weird that London has already produced a major revival and Broadway hasn't. (I didn't see the Donmar revival but presumably it had a severely reduced orchestration?) |
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| re: So basically any male actor. | |
| Posted by: sf 08:32 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: So basically any male actor. - portenopete 09:24 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
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| Yes, the Donmar revival had a severely reduced orchestration. Ten pieces - fine in the 250-seat Donmar at Donmar prices, but not good enough at the Garrick. Although that was far from the only problem with the West End iteration of the production. | |
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| Is donmar a big west end theater | |
| Posted by: dramedy 10:00 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
| In reply to: re: So basically any male actor. - portenopete 09:24 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
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| I’ve never been to donmar, but I equate it to public theater. Good productions that might transfer to broadway but still offbroadway. | |
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| Donmar size for musicals. | |
| Posted by: portenopete 08:40 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: Is donmar a big west end theater - dramedy 10:00 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
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| In terms of "feel" I'd say the Donmar seems smaller than any of The Public's spaces (I think I've been in them all at this point). There are only four rows in the stalls (and three in the balcony) so you are always extremely close. If you're at the extreme sides you get an extreme side view (which can often be interesting if obstructed). The balcony seats are very steep and squished and I avoid them. I've seen COMPANY, THE THREEPENNY OPERA, MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG, GRAND HOTEL and SWEET CHARITY and loved them all (to varying degrees). GRAND HOTEL was particularly impressive given the magic of the Tommy Tune original was its size and sweep. |
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| It's "big" only in reputation | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 11:26 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
| In reply to: Is donmar a big west end theater - dramedy 10:00 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
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| Seating capacity is around 250. The orchestra for City of Angels was under a dozen players. | |
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| re: It's "big" only in reputation | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 12:09 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: It's "big" only in reputation - MockingbirdGirl 11:26 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
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| I did a college production with around 10 or 11 players, and I feel we really were squeaking by. The show is on our short list for future musicals at the same college, and this time with a more musically aware and conscientious general manager I'm more liable to get the full orchestra. I wouldn't really want to do it otherwise, to be honest. | |
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| re: It's "big" only in reputation | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 10:46 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: It's "big" only in reputation - Chromolume 12:09 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| Honestly, that just seems criminal. Do you happen to remember how many brass and saxophones you had? - GMB | |
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| re: It's "big" only in reputation | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 04:23 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: It's "big" only in reputation - GrumpyMorningBoy 10:46 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| I had 3 reeds, 2 trumpets, 2 trombones. And piano, bass, drums, with me conducting and playing the synth book. (With parts rescored as much as possible to prevent "holes" in the sound). Missing from my band - 1 reed, 1 trumpet, percussion, guitar, strings Missing from the rental package (i.e the original Broadway scoring not available for rental) - 1 more reed, 1 more trombone, horn, one more percussion part. |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: pecansforall 08:21 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
| In reply to: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - portenopete 08:06 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
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| I'd hate to see a revival of this if the size of the orchestra has to be reduced to save money (which is usually the case). Those original orchestrations are sublime. | |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: ArnoldMBrockman 09:05 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - pecansforall 08:21 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
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| CITY OF ANGELS WULD MAKE A GREAT MOVIE-Black and White and Color ! | |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:03 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - pecansforall 08:21 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
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| And yes - the ORIGINAL orchestrations, not the ones redone for licensing (which are the only available ones now). What do we think of how the role of Lieutenant Munoz is written in light of today? Would "All You Have To Do Is Wait" need to be rethought? |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 09:52 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - Chromolume 09:03 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
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| I don't think so - Munoz is a character written by a white writer in the 1940s, so the stereotypes can be attributed to Stein. One way to address that as well would be to cast the show diversely, so that we have other actors of color who aren't playing stereotypes. | |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Last Edit: EvFoDr 11:00 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| Posted by: EvFoDr 10:58 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - Singapore/Fling 09:52 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
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| I used to own a copy of the script but alas it's lost. In addition to Munoz's song, there is also diaologue...in one of the replay/rewrite moments...where Munoz actually brings up race and talks about Stone having "the right color skin". Unfortunately I cannot expand more on the precise tone or whether this helps or hurts the concern because it's been so long since I've seen the show. But this could potentially be a moment to adjust something if the authors felt it would be helpful. It's tricky whether audiences will accept the stereotypes being Stine's. | |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 04:43 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - EvFoDr 10:58 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| And of course Zippel's unfailing sense of wordplay ALMOST redeems the stereotypes in the song - for instance, the notion of Stone suffering from the aftereffects of Mexican food for his last meal before he is executed because "they are gonna give you gas." I have to give him credit for that. :-) | |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 01:08 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - Singapore/Fling 09:52 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
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| The musical is a very clever satire of the detective/film noir genre, especially movies like The Maltese Falcon, The Big Sleep, Chinatown, and others. It's full of racism, homophobia, and other human failings. Dave Zippel's lyrics make me laugh out loud every time I play the CD. "You Can Always Count on Me" is obviously intended to be a tribute to the performances of Lee Patrick and Eve Arden in various film noir dramas. I like your casting ideas because I would hate to see anyone rewrite the dialogue to try to make the show politically correct. | |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 01:41 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - BroadwayTonyJ 01:08 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| I would hate to see anyone rewrite the dialogue to try to make the show politically correct. I agree with you. I guess I'm also asking because, as I think I mentioned elsewhere, this show is on our short list for a college production at the moment, but I'm a little concerned for student reactions, and am not sure if characters like Munoz are going to be seen as a detriment or if they'll be understood in context. Things are touchy right now with diversity/racial issues, and I sense that's not going away anytime soon. That, and of course, the eternal question of whether I can really cast an awesome Angel City 4 (last time I lucked out, but those parts are damn hard!!). ;-) |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Last Edit: Singapore/Fling 11:20 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 11:19 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - Chromolume 01:41 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| It can get harder when you're working with college students versus the general public. A lot of the campus response will be influenced by the ways that your department/school are responding to the larger issues around diversity, representation, and dismantling white supremacy in our culture; if the students are already inclined to not trust the administration, you'll have a harder road. First and foremost, the best thing you can do is include members of the student body in your process of choosing the musical. Bring them into the conversation as to what shows you're looking at, why they speak to you, and see how the students respond and what concerns or advice they have in approaching each selection. And then, in terms of being proactive, some things your school could do would include hiring a director of color and bringing the history of racism in Hollywood into your rehearsal process and public-facing content. If the production approaches the show by saying, "this reflects the reality of our culture and we're investigating that within the context of this show", then you should foster more goodwill. It's not about being "politically correct", it's about acknowledging the ways that these stereotypes are harmful and often distasteful to members of the audience who are seeing their culture played for laughs. So part of the strategy is to take out or complicate the mockery, in the hopes that you can still keep the joy (as in, Munoz is enjoying torturing Stone with these references, so you try to make that the focus of the song... if Munoz is in charge of the stereotypes, it changes the tone). |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 04:54 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 04:53 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - Singapore/Fling 11:19 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| First and foremost, the best thing you can do is include members of the student body in your process of choosing the musical. We do. We have a student subcommittee who vets any number of titles before making recommendations. Though this doesn't mean that faculty aren't allowed to make other suggestions as well. It's a process we implemented a few years ago and are still trying to improve. And then, in terms of being proactive, some things your school could do would include hiring a director of color and bringing the history of racism in Hollywood into your rehearsal process and public-facing content. If the production approaches the show by saying, "this reflects the reality of our culture and we're investigating that within the context of this show", then you should foster more goodwill. Yes. Last year's spring musical was originally going to be the revival version of Side Show (vetted and chosen by the students, but with some regrets after - not sure how that happened), with an African-American director, who after being sold on the project, eventually changed his mind - Spring Awakening went in its place with the student body's consent. Which then got cancelled of course, but is now going to be the online musical this spring with a different director. In general, we're not shying away from shows with racial issues, however the BIPOC students are concerned about choosing shows with "token" roles - and I totally understand that. |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 05:52 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - Chromolume 04:53 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| It sounds like y'all are having the right conversations - and of course, not everyone will be 100% happy, but if you're doing the work and proceeding from a place of goodwill and listening to each other, I think generally that's enough to keep people happy and feeling valued. | |
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| Casting the Angel City 4 | |
| Posted by: GrumpyMorningBoy 10:42 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - Chromolume 01:41 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| I've had multiple regional theater people tell me that the only thing keeping them from staging a production of CITY OF ANGELS was the difficulty in casting that quartet. That stuff is hard AF. - GMB |
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| re: Casting the Angel City 4 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 04:35 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: Casting the Angel City 4 - GrumpyMorningBoy 10:42 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| it's even harder than "hard AF" lol. I like to joke that my callback for the quartet gave me a literal headache from the concentration it took - listening for pitch accuracy, blend, etc. I did luck WAY out. I remember arriving for the first rehearsal with them, knowing that they were all good musicians but knowing there would be a lot of careful plunking and slow work to be done - to discover that they already had much of the music leaned (!!) - they had been meeting on their own. 3 of them are still working in the biz now - a musical director (Steven Cuevas, most recently the MD of the Once On This Island tour), a wonderful regional/Broadway actor (Sam Simahk), and a songwriter/comedian (Camille Harris). They were FABULOUS! |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 10:11 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - Singapore/Fling 09:52 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
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| You make a good point about Stine's writing. I guess it comes down to whether people can view it that way - something that would be permissible in the period setting - or if it just doesn't seem comfortable anymore. | |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: altonido 03:04 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - Chromolume 10:11 pm EDT 03/21/21 | |
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| Had Covid not intervened, it's entirely possible that NY would have seen a "City of Angels" revival in '20-'21. One of the reasons why the acclaimed Donmar Warehouse production was brought back to the West End in 2020--five years after its original run--was as a potential Broadway transfer. Had things not gone as they did, Ben Brantley would likely have done his usual summer jaunt to London and reviewed it. Had he liked it, it might very well have been picked up for NY, perhaps as a limited engagement by one of the non-profits. And 2020 London star Vanessa Williams would probably have transferred with it. Brantley's strong reviews for London revivals of "Company," "The Color Purple" and "Caroline, or Chanage" had a lot to do with them becoming Broadway revivals. So this "City of Angels" might very well have followed suit. The 2020 London run of "City of Angels" only managed to play a few weeks before the shutdown. It did not even get to a press night where it would have been re-reviewed by London critics, not least because of several major cast changes from the Donmar version. |
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