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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 01:28 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - BroadwayTonyJ 01:20 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| You have to have 2 different actors as Stine and Stone. I disagree - it would actually be very interesting to have an actor that could play both roles convincingly on film. If Stone is the man Stine really wishes he were, they should resemble each other. You can't really do that in the stage show, but you could on film. |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 02:39 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 02:12 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - Chromolume 01:28 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| I've never looked at the show quite that way, although what you propose is an interesting idea. I think Stine covets Stone's success with women, his fame, his notoriety, and other qualities -- he'd like to have those attributes but still be Stine and retain his own abilities. I think the relationship of Stine to Stone is more like that of Rick Lyon to Trekkie Monster. It takes a really great actor to play dual roles in a film convincingly. Ronald Colman (in The Prisoner of Zenda) and Bette Davis (in A Stolen Life) made it look easy. Audiences always knew which character they were seeing in both films in every scene. However, fine actors who tried it like Spencer Tracy, Olivia De Havilland, Paul Henreid, and others were a lot less convincing in creating two characters that looked the same but had totally different personalities, yet did not confuse audiences as to which character they were seeing in every scene -- I know I got confused occasionally during the films. I'm not sure Jackman has the ability to pull off such a demanding feat. |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: jo 07:49 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - BroadwayTonyJ 02:12 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| Jackman played dual characters in Chris Nolan's The Prestige. The obsessed magician Robert Angier and the drunken double ( who had a bit of facial prosthetics) Root. Their personas were in direct contrast to each other -- one had the air of a man on a mission to prove that he was the best magician at that time and the other was the actor hired for his resemblance but who was too drunk to be reliable. Actually, Hugh portrayed a third personality in the movie - the lowkey English lord ( Lord Caldlow who adopted the Borden daughter). In reality, he was the English lord who did not want to embarrass his family because he chose to be a magician and kept his identity unknown. Jackman has lately been drawing critical raves for his acting versatility these days ( from Logan to Greatest Showman to Bad Education) and for other past acting portrayals. An early indication was an Aronofsky sci-fi drama where Hugh portrayed 3 personas from three different times ( a Spanish conquistador, an obsessed doctor racing against time to discover a cure for his dying wife's illness, and a man of the future seeking his own path to immortality). Also interesting was his transformation in Les Miserables -- from hardened convict to a respected town mayor to a man who joined the revolutionaries for the sake of his daughter. The late Larry Gelbart probably thought he had the versatility to portray 2 characters with different personas but shared some similarity because Stone was a creation of Stine's mind. |
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| HUGH JACKMAN -- Films, Stage, TV | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 11:31 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 11:26 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - jo 07:49 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| Jackman has had a lot of success in films, primarily as Wolverine. I have enjoyed those films in which I felt he was well cast. I thought his performance in Les Miserables was admirable and powerful at times -- I was not disappointed. I thought The Prestige was not an especially good film and Jackman was out of his depth, just IMO. I'm glad you liked it more than I did. However, when it comes to playing dual roles in a film, I would not put him in the same category as Ronald Colman and Bette Davis. The Greatest Showman got mostly mixed to negative reviews when it opened in movie theaters. I decided to pass on seeing it at that time. Nevertheless, it became a blockbuster hit with audiences and made a ton of money, most likely because of Jackman's undeniable appeal (and talent) as a song and dance man. When it appeared on cable TV, I DVR'd it, but could not watch it all the way through. Jackman gave an agreeable performance, but was it historically accurate? I disliked the film intensely. I think the musical Barnum did a much better job of honestly depicting Barnum's career. I even preferred the Wallace Beery portrayal in the old 1934 film. Again I'm glad that you and millions of others found it more enjoyable than I did. On the Broadway stage, there is no question that the guy is a star of a magnitude we haven't seen in decades, although he's only done 4 shows so far. I saw him twice in The Boy from Oz, which is just an average musical, but Jackman made it something special and turned it into a sizeable hit. I saw the original production of A Steady Rain in Chicago. It's a gripping little play, but rather slight, essentially a series of dueling monologues. At the Royal George, it was well-acted by two very gifted actors who, nevertheless, were not big names -- a wise choice which made the story powerfully effective. I had no desire to see such a slight drama on Broadway with such huge film and stage stars. There is no question that the teaming of Jackman and Craig made for a box office bonanza. Jackman has an engaging personality and his appearances on late night talk shows have always been very entertaining. I've enjoyed watching every one I've been fortunate enough to catch. |
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| re: HUGH JACKMAN -- Films, Stage, TV | |
| Last Edit: jo 12:08 am EDT 03/23/21 | |
| Posted by: jo 12:02 am EDT 03/23/21 | |
| In reply to: HUGH JACKMAN -- Films, Stage, TV - BroadwayTonyJ 11:26 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| To each his own! Many audience members liked The Prestige ( 92% approval rating for Audience Score on Rotten Tomatoes)...and many Nolan fans rate it highly. Interesting quote from a respected actor Robert Downey, Jr on the movie -- "• Robert Downey, Jr. on The Prestige: “It’s like the old film The Seven-Per-Cent Solution – that Sherlock Holmes movie – it was so not what you expected. To me, it was a Ferrari engine of a script, and Christian Bale is always exciting and innovative. The scene where Hugh Jackman is dying and then has a page and a half monologue… How do you deliver a speech like that? But Jackman handled it." The Greatest Showman is not a pure biopic, more of an idealized version of the master impresario developing the central theme of the movie, which is the birth of mass entertainment (aka showbiz). But I prefer the more powertul film adaptation of Les Miserables over The Greatest Showman. The Les Miserables film adaptation focused more on the dramatic elements of Victor Hugo's novel compared to TrevorNunn's original English version. Compare how Valjean's first epiphany, articulated musically and acted very well in The Soliloquy was treated in the film compared to the stage musical treatment ( simply more like a bridge to another timeline). Also, interestingly, the original Paris musical preceding the English version by 5 years was originally written for a baritone and performed by a baritone. It was transposed to accomodate Colm Wilkinson's tenor range when he was cast. But I am also a great fan of the stage musical version per se and have seen it on Broadway, London and even Paris. Acting-wise, The Greatest Showman was not a big challenge for Jackman. But people are impressed with his acting when he discovered how good Jenny Lind was and presented a means to achieve his ambition of being recognized for bringing entertainment to the social register. It is the role of Valjean which presented the much greater challenge and led to an Oscar nomination. If you have seen Bad Education which drew universal raves for his acting, it is another revelation on how nuanced he can create in a portrayal. A heel behind a hero facade. Btw, Wolverine was never an engaging personality, more like a compelling one, as portrayed by him. Have you seen LOGAN - more of a dramatic triumph hailed by both critics and fans? But thanks for your views. |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 08:18 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - jo 07:49 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| Stine is actually a pretty hard sing, and Jackman had a hard time with the musical lines of Jean Valjean; I think he'd be better as Stone with its easier tessitura and vocal demands and have them cast someone else as Stine. | |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:34 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - PlayWiz 08:18 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| Stine is actually a pretty hard sing IMO it's not. It's only 3 songs, one near the top of the show, one at the end of Act I, and one near the end of Act II. That's it. Granted, they're all "big" numbers and rangy (if one actually sings what's on the page), but it certainly has no comparison to Valjean or many other leading roles. Also, the money notes get lower as the show goes on (if sung in the current score keys) - G# in "Double Talk," G in "You're Nothing Without Me," F in "Funny." |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 08:31 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - PlayWiz 08:18 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| Though it's hard to know how much of Jackman's trouble with Valjean had to do with singing the score live on a film shoot for weeks on end. I felt like he got noticeably worse the later in the film we got, and my memory is they shot more or less in order. But I don't think any actor is good enough to pull off "You're Nothing without Me" singing a duet with themselves... nor would that necessarily be appealing to watch. |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 08:44 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:37 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - Singapore/Fling 08:31 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| But I don't think any actor is good enough to pull off "You're Nothing without Me" singing a duet with themselves... nor would that necessarily be appealing to watch. I'm not sure what you mean. It would obviously have to be pre-recorded and lip synched with both parts sung/filmed separately. And don't forget that in the show context, only Stine has the money note at the end (assuming the film took the same path). (I think the OBC recording made some dubious changes to the show's context - including changing the way the show starts musically, and making the end of "You're Nothing Without Me" a sing-off for both of them. On the other hand, they did something wonderfully right in recording the exit music - one of the best, if not THE best, exit music sequences in all of musical theatre.) |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 11:30 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - Chromolume 08:37 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| Well, yes, I know how a movie gets made :-) but the challenge in this idea isn't the logistics, it's the performance. And one of the many reasons this idea wouldn't fly is that it would just be silly. Like, Cats the movie silly. | |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 11:47 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - Singapore/Fling 11:30 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| Exactly. Stine and Stone are two different guys. They shouldn't look like identical twins -- that would just be an unnecessary distraction. What noted fiction writer has ever used his own picture or likeness as the face of his main character, unless the story is a camouflaged autobiography? Has that ever been the intent of City of Angels? I think it would be a mistake to take such a radical approach when committing to film such a well-regarded stage musical. Just IMO. | |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 12:51 pm EDT 03/23/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - BroadwayTonyJ 11:47 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| Stine is supposed to be something of a shlub (or at least more charactery) as opposed to the more polished Stone, so I believe the material would be better served by two different actors, even in a screen version. | |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: simbo 04:02 am EDT 03/23/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - BroadwayTonyJ 11:47 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| It's the gimmick of "The Singing Detective" that Michael Gambon is playing both the titular detective and the writer of the detective novel that features him. And Nick and Nora Charles aren't exactly 100 miles away from Dashiell Hammet and Lillian Hellman, particularly the amount of drinking ... | |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Last Edit: Chromolume 01:45 am EDT 03/23/21 | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 01:42 am EDT 03/23/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - BroadwayTonyJ 11:47 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| But then how come every other character in the "real life" part of the show has a counterpart in the film part played by the same actor? Are you saying that's silly too? Isn't that actually ignoring the entire conceit of the show? In that sense, I think the movie version of the show would be able to do the one thing the stage show couldn't - give Stine his screen counterpart. |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 07:58 am EDT 03/23/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - Chromolume 01:42 am EDT 03/23/21 | |
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| You have a good point there. No, it's definitely not silly that the other actors play dual roles because that's the way Stine sees them. He takes people in his real life and re-imagines them in their reel life. I just don't think that Stine actually sees himself as being Stone, but he wants to be as cool and confident with women as Stone is. I think City of Angels is a really great musical, IMO Cy Coleman's masterpiece. Everything works perfectly. At least that's the way I see it. Hey, you are ten times more knowledgeable than I am. You actually work in theatre, while I'm just a fan. I have tremendous respect for you and enjoy your posts immensely. I just have a soft spot in my heart for City of Angels, probably because I love film noir and the great scores that are associated with it (like Raksin's Laura, Rozsa's Double Indemnity, Steiner's The Big Sleep, many others). I think Coleman's Broadway score is as atmospheric and effective as their film scores are. I doubt if it will ever be made into a film, but hey, you never know. Maybe Netflix will do it some day. I just disagree with your vision for a film version, that's all. I'm just afraid your idea would screw it up and movies are forever. |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:21 am EDT 03/23/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - BroadwayTonyJ 07:58 am EDT 03/23/21 | |
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| Thank you for the compliment - I always enjoy and respect your posts as well. We can certainly amicably agree to disagree. In terms of Stine seeing himself as Stone. I only offer in defense one lyric from "You're Nothing Without Me" - both of them sing this to each other, but I do think that Stone makes a point singing this to Stine - "Let's deal with the issue / You wish you were me." :-) May the fun debates continue. :-) |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 12:48 pm EDT 03/23/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - Chromolume 09:21 am EDT 03/23/21 | |
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| Yeah, let's just agree to disagree. | |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: simbo 02:50 pm EDT 03/23/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - BroadwayTonyJ 12:48 pm EDT 03/23/21 | |
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| Just to note that Anthony Warlow did put a self-duet version of "you're nothing without me" on his album "Centre Stage" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw_rAqxNFO4 It's not the best arrangment but it was my introduction to the song and it doesn't sound like a hideous misfire to me. |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 05:15 pm EDT 03/23/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - simbo 02:50 pm EDT 03/23/21 | |
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| I have nothing against a self-duet in a cabaret setting -- I'm sure that would be fun to hear. However, the casting issue in a film apparently has two equally valid points of view. Both arguments are well laid out in this thread. |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Last Edit: jo 08:17 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| Posted by: jo 08:16 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - jo 07:49 pm EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| Hey, he's taken on a new type of role lately -- Seen skiing with champion alpine skier Lindsey Vonn, Hugh broke into song while doing slalom moves (One Day More).LOL! https://twitter.com/RealHughJackman/status/1372940327523389442?s=20 |
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| Link | https://twitter.com/RealHughJackman/status/1372940327523389442?s=20 |
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| re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? | |
| Last Edit: MockingbirdGirl 07:43 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 07:42 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Is it time for a CITY OF ANGELS revival? Perhaps starring.....? - Chromolume 01:28 am EDT 03/22/21 | |
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| they should resemble each other. You can't really do that in the stage show... 400 years of The Comedy of Errors suggests otherwise! :-D |
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