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| My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 07:47 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
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| Since Harrison could not and/or would not lip-sync to his own vocals, were all of his songs done live on the set? How exactly were "The Rain in Spain" and "You Did It" filmed since Hepburn, Nixon, and Hyde-White were part of "Rain" and Hyde-White, Washbourne, and the chorus were part of "You Did It"? BTW in the 1940 Night Train to Munich Harrison sings a few verses of 2 songs with piano accompaniment (I assume) live on the set. Even Margaret Lockwood (as Anna) tells him his singing is wretched. (Note: Thank God for the Edit button. I was able to correct my Freudian slip. I initially typed Andrews instead of Hepburn.) |
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| re: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:24 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
| In reply to: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals - BroadwayTonyJ 07:47 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
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| Harrison's live vocals were recorded through a tiny microphone on his tie that was made to look like a tie clip -- at least, in those scenes where he's wearing a tie. This has been written about in several articles and books, and it's covered in one of the documentaries about the making and/or the restoration of the movie -- they even zoom in on the mic/tie clip at one point, to illustrate. Presumably the mic was located elsewhere but also disguised in other scenes in which Harrison is not wearing a tie. I'm not sure why you think the same method could have been used for his vocals in the ensemble number, but actually, I'm pretty sure that Harrison did SOME looping after the fact for some numbers, so not ALL of the vocals are live (though most of them are). |
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| re: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 08:53 am EDT 04/04/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals - Michael_Portantiere 11:24 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
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| Yes, I have finally seen that documentary and know about the mic in his tie so I assume that's how he recorded his solo numbers. That process is straightforward enough so that someone like me (who knows absolutely nothing about filming and recording musical numbers in a movie) can understand the entire process. Here's what I don't understand. In The Rain in Spain number, do Harrison and Hyde-White sing live? Does Hepburn also speak her lines leading up to the song live and then just lip-sync Eliza's lyrics so that Nixon's vocals can be added later? Or is Nixon actually on the set (but out of sight) and singing the lyrics to Hepburn's miming? I know these questions must sound stupid to those who understand the whole process, but honestly I just want to take this opportunity to find out exactly how the whole recording thing is actually done. BTW I think you have done a great service to all of us non-insiders (I hope I'm not the only one) by bringing up all these issues regarding the My Fair Lady film. I'm really learning a lot of things I never knew or really understood. Even though I have owned the DVD of My Fair Lady for at least 15 years, I never bothered to watch the documentary (on disc #2) about the making of the film until yesterday. |
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| re: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 09:31 am EDT 04/04/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals - BroadwayTonyJ 08:53 am EDT 04/04/21 | |
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| Hey, first of all, I apologize for a typo in my previous response here. What I meant to type was, "I'm not sure why you think the same method could NOT have been used for his vocals in the ensemble number." As for "The Rain in Spain," although I don't know all the details for certain, I can assure you that Marni was not standing there on the set and singing the lyrics while Hepburn lip-synced! Audrey was either lip-syncing to a pre-record of Marni's voice, or to a pre-record of her own voice (Audrey's) and Marni looped in the sung sections later. I have never been sure whether the talking, laughing, and horse play during the number was recorded live, or lip-synched, or looped, though it SEEMS to me it was NOT recorded live. I'm glad you watched that documentary. Yes, it's fascinating. Fun fact, and I don't remember if it's in that docu, but the cinematographer for MFL was the same fellow who, years earlier, had served in that same capacity for the film of PYGMALION: Harry Stradling. |
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| also... why does he sing it so much less in the film than he even does on the OBC? | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 08:47 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
| In reply to: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals - BroadwayTonyJ 07:47 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
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| I noticed this when rewatching it last week. I am so familiar with his performance on the album (i think OBC but maybe it's the OLC?)... and i couldn't help noticing countless discrepancies in how i remember his performance of songs and sections of them from my memory vs the film. I am not saying I want a carbon copy, I'm just taking note of much more emphasized the SPEAK part of his speak-singing was than on the recording. I'd think if he or the writers wanted to preserve it the way it was originally done, with him recreating his performance, they'd want to get that down. Obviously... it didn't matter to them, or he just wasn't able to sing it the same way, or didn't care to. But I'm curious if it's ever been spoken about... though I'm sure it probably hasn't. | |
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| re: also... why does he sing it so much less in the film than he even does on the OBC? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:30 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
| In reply to: also... why does he sing it so much less in the film than he even does on the OBC? - Chazwaza 08:47 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
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| Chazwaza, I think if you were to compare the film soundtrack and the OBC recording closely, you would find it's not true that Harrison did any more speaking as opposed to singing on the soundtrack than on the recording. I think it's about the same ratio, but sometimes he just chose to sing or speak different sections. For that matter, Harrison made some different choices in this regard on the OLD album as compared to the OBC. | |
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| re: also... why does he sing it so much less in the film than he even does on the OBC? | |
| Posted by: huskyital (huskyital@yahoo.com) 10:22 am EDT 04/04/21 | |
| In reply to: re: also... why does he sing it so much less in the film than he even does on the OBC? - Michael_Portantiere 11:30 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
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| When you sing live you always are different than when you are recording.....I think his live singing is one of the things that makes the film feel alive. | |
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| re: also... why does he sing it so much less in the film than he even does on the OBC? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 01:27 pm EDT 04/04/21 | |
| In reply to: re: also... why does he sing it so much less in the film than he even does on the OBC? - huskyital 10:22 am EDT 04/04/21 | |
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| "I think his live singing is one of the things that makes the film feel alive." Agreed. "Why Can't the English?" in particular is, I think, a high point of the film for that very reason. |
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| re: also... why does he sing it so much less in the film than he even does on the OBC? | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 10:37 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 10:30 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
| In reply to: also... why does he sing it so much less in the film than he even does on the OBC? - Chazwaza 08:47 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
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| I'd venture to say that performances by trained singers might vary somewhat from performance to performance, and Harrison certainly wasn't a musician or trained singer at all. The film was made probably about 3 or 4 years after he had finished doing the NY and London runs, too. I think he and Andrews did like 3 1/2 years of it ending around 1959 or 1960, so he had to probably work up his performance again and probably had some fresh ideas, too. He was, however, noted by the creative team, at least to my recollection Lerner, Loewe and the musical director, for having very good sense of rhythm, which helped in his patter songs. Harrison knew he had a very limited singing range, but he had a very big speaking range with very good control of that -- catch him in "The Ghost and Mrs. Muir" where he actually uses a much lower speaking tone especially at the beginning of the film. But even Julie Andrews' performance changes between the OCR NY and the London recording -- plus being captured in real-time, Andrews even sniffs at one point on the London during I think "Show Me" number, because -- being a real person, she has a cold on the day of the recording session. She also declaims and does some more speak-singing, probably from having witnessed Harrison doing so much of it during his performance, she started to employ it more in some of her subsequent performances. I don't think anyone was necessarily going to call out Harrison for doing more speak-singing or any variation of what had been a smash hit performance -- he had a reputation for not being the nicest celebrity-- and I'm being generous in my wording if you knew his personal history or some of the stories about him. | |
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| re: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals | |
| Last Edit: PlayWiz 08:04 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
| Posted by: PlayWiz 08:01 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
| In reply to: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals - BroadwayTonyJ 07:47 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
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| I had heard that Harrison did indeed do his songs live on set during filming. I'm not aware how this was done, however, as in, if the orchestra was on the side out of camera range, hidden, on a huge soundstage playing. It's possible, since some early musicals had such a set-up. In the wonderful musical "Love Me Tonight" from 1932, you can tell at least one of Maurice Chevalier's numbers "I'm an Apache" was done live, because at the end, as he mimes with his shadow being guillotined, and he bends down, his voice fades for few words and is briefly slightly "off mic" away from the overhead mic and when he stands up, his vocal matches the rest of the song. Somewhere around this time, pre-recording came to be more the style, which saved the studio the expense of having a full orchestra on set for multiple retakes while paying for everyone responsible for the visual aspects of the film. But Harrison I believe had it in his contract to do it "live". Perhaps others might have examples of actors who did their singing "live". The recent "Les Miz" film I believe was done in this manner. Even though Anne Hathaway won an Oscar, I have a feeling the take selected was one after she had done many, since her voice was not at her best, which is probably what the director wanted for her character and her misery at that point. Having seen her do "Carnival!" at Encores years ago, she has a beautiful voice and was capable of a better sung performance. Others can probably fill you in how the "Rain in Spain" and "You Did It" were filmed. Hepburn doesn't have too much of a singing burden in that, though there are ways of having had her mic and its particular track isolated so that if they wanted to, Marni Nixon's could have been substituted for Hepburn's in the final film. But I'll leave it to the sound specialists who know for sure. |
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| re: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals | |
| Last Edit: AlanScott 08:45 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 08:42 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals - PlayWiz 08:01 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
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| In many — I think most — very early film musicals, the singing was live. This happens in some later films, including all of the numbers in At Long Last Love, since it was intended to be a throwback. In Gypsy, "Mr. Goldstone" was done live — with Russell singing — and I'm pretty sure that "Little Lamb" was also live. If you see the 1951 Capra film Here Comes the Groom, starring Bing Crosby, Jane Wyman, Alexis Smith and Franchot Tone, with an appearance near the beginning by the young Anna Maria Alberghetti, there are a few songs, all of them clearly done live, including Alberghetti singing, if memory serves, "Caro nome" live. There definitely are other examples here and there of individual numbers done live, although none is coming to mind right now, except for a nonmusical film. I think that when Jan Clayton (uncredited) sings "Coming Home" at the end of The Snake Pit, that was live. Oh, I think that "Now" in A Little Night Music may have been done live, but I am not sure. So much of it is in closeup, and the lipsynching is so perfect that I think it may not have been lipsynching. As for MFL, Harrison wore an ear piece in which he could hear a piano. The orchestra was added later. |
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| re: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 10:49 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals - AlanScott 08:42 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
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| When Varese released the soundtrack of Alfred Newman's score for The Snake Pit ('48), Clayton's vocal of "Coming Home" was not on the CD. I think I was told that it didn't exist. The same was true of the vocals of Spencer Tracy, Charley Grapewin, John Carradine, and Freddie Bartholomew when Intrada released the complete soundtrack of Franz Waxman's score for Captains Courageous ('37). However, when FSM released the soundtrack of Herbert Stothart's score for Random Harvest ('42), Greer Garson's vocal of "She Is Ma Daisy" was indeed on the CD. Does that mean that Garson was lip-syncing to her previously recorded vocal, but the others were singing live on their sets? |
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| re: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 11:32 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals - BroadwayTonyJ 10:49 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
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| That sounds plausible but I can't say that I know. I suppose there might be an answer on the Film Score Monthly message board. Might come up by doing searches there. | |
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| re: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 12:44 pm EDT 04/04/21 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 12:43 pm EDT 04/04/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals - AlanScott 11:32 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
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| I was just curious. In all the discussions I have had with Intrada, Varese, and the people on the FSM message board, no one has ever mentioned that Clayton sang "Coming Home" live on the set. You are actually the first person I know that has brought up that detail. That's why I asked the question. I love Clayton's vocals on the Carousel and Show Boat Broadway cast albums. She even did a bit of singing on the Lassie TV series. Her rendition of "Coming Home" makes me cry whenever I watch that film. |
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| re: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 12:12 am EDT 04/06/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals - BroadwayTonyJ 12:43 pm EDT 04/04/21 | |
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| Years ago, a friend who had watched it was convinced that she had done it live. He then showed me the sequence, and it did seem like ehe did at least some of it live. I don't remember it all well enough now. I guess that if the camera then moves to a dialogue scene with Clayton just heard in the background, that part probably was not live. Clayton had a very touching vulnerable quality. Ah, so I guess you've already done searches on the FSM boards about those other movies. |
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| re: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 06:03 pm EDT 04/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals - AlanScott 12:12 am EDT 04/06/21 | |
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| The soundtrack of The Snake Pit was released twice on CD -- in 2000 by German label Tsunami and in 2010 by Varese Sarabande. Varese had access to the original 20th Century Fox master tapes. The source for the German CD was not disclosed, but they had claimed that it contained the complete score. While both recordings had the instrumental underscore to the scene featuring "Going Home", Clayton's vocal was missing. The other controversy was the fact that the German CD had 19 tracks (versus 16 on the Varese) and ran about 9 minutes longer than the American CD. There definitely was a lot of discussion on the FSM message board. A few posters (including me) spoke to reps at Varese, but were simply told that Clayton's vocal was not on the master tapes. Neither I nor any other poster thought to ask Varese if Clayton had sung live in the film. When the Captains Courageous soundtrack was released in 2017, Intrada's CD featured the entire score but only the instrumental version of "Oh, What a Terrible Man" and "Yea Ho, Little Fish". I asked the guy who produced the CD about the vocals, but again was told they weren't on the tapes. The FSM CD of the Random Harvest soundtrack (which did include Garson's vocal) was produced by the guy who did Captains. There was discussion of both CDs on FSM, but the issue of singing live versus recording in a studio was never raised. If I had known at the time that there were two different ways of recording songs in non-musical films, I would have asked the producer a question about it. I didn't mean to put you on the spot in my earlier post. When I saw you mention that Clayton had sung live in The Snake Pit, I just thought you might have some sort of insider knowledge about whether singing live in a non-musical film might be difficult to preserve for a soundtrack recording. |
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| re: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 12:02 am EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals - BroadwayTonyJ 06:03 pm EDT 04/07/21 | |
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| I didn't feel put on the spot so don't worry about that. I wish I did have that knowledge. But it sounds like it might well make sense for those kinds of releases, done decades after a film was released and using the master tapes. | |
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| Linking an article that may be of interest about the restoration of the MFL movie | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 09:05 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
| In reply to: re: My Fair Lady -- Question about Rex Harrison's Vocals - AlanScott 08:42 pm EDT 04/03/21 | |
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| From 1994, with a bit in there about the problems that the restoration team had because Harrison had done the songs live. | |
| Link | My Fair Lady restoration |
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