Threaded Order Chronological Order
| in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 02:26 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 02:16 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
| In reply to: re: CAROUSEL - Snowysdad 12:21 am EDT 04/06/21 | |
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| The 1994 bway revival fo Carousel cast album is my go-to for this show, always. And it's largely *because* of Michael Hayden and Sally Murphy. Obviously Hayden gets vastly more criticized than Murphy (she is a more skilled singer even if she's not the classical R&H type voice usually in this role) ... but for me, at least on the recording (i can't speak to how he was on any given night live, I've heard he had great nights and awful nights and many falling inbetween, vocally-speaking) his Billy is the best on record* because of the mix of his incredible acting of the role AND his vocals. He's no John Raitt vocally, but *on the album* his voice rises to the role and gives me everything I need for it. He isn't squeaking through it or talking through it - it's powerful and large but also small - his lack of skill coupled with his passion seems to fit perfectly for performing Billy, as that is the character's downfall in many ways. His shakiness as a singer compliments his acting choices, or at least read as acting choices -- and not in a Natasha as Sally Bowles way, because again I still think his voice sounds good and does the singing role justice (I also think that Lansbury AND Remick sound good on the ACW album, and apparently some think I'm wrong so who knows). But it's the mix of what he can manage vocally (which, again, on the album is more than enough) with his acting, how they intermingle and compliment each other so well for the character - I would call his acting fairly revelatory for the role. I've never seen or heard the role acted so well. And that's true for Sally Murphy's Julie too... their acting of those roles and that storyline brought Carousel - an already exceptional musical - to a level I hadn't given it credit for before, largely because of the actors performing the dialogue and lyrics in most previous major productions I'd see/heard. Every time I listen to their entire bench scene/If I Loved You, his Soliloquy, her Queer One Julie Jordan, her What's the Use of Wondrin' ... I'm astonished. I get them completely, I get the play on levels I didn't before, my heart breaks... it's just so much better, acting wise, than I've heard or seen it before. It managed to be real, believable and grounded in a whimsical high concept production, and it's the perfect balance. So while I feel for the people seeing it live any given night and getting a weak, or at best mixed vocal performance from Hayden... or even those disappointed in the small mousier voice of Murphy ... I am forever grateful Hayden cast them, and that we have this recording of it. *caveat, I haven't listened to (or seen) the recent bway revival, so I don't have an assessment of Joshua Henry's performance -- I hadn't heard many amazing things, though given my Hayden stance maybe that should have had me running to buy the album and see for myself. And I will get to it. |
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| re: Marcus Lovett as Billy Bigelow | |
| Posted by: Ronsdivas 09:10 am EDT 04/07/21 | |
| In reply to: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) - Chazwaza 02:16 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
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| When Michael Hayden got ill and so was his understudy....Marcus Lovett was brought in from Phantom..and with two days of rehearsals....sang AND acted the BEST Billy Bigelow. Any one who saw Mr Lovett really got their money's worth from the show. Mr Lovett is a classically trained singer and was really able to sing the R & H score with no difficulty. | |
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| re: Marcus Lovett as Billy Bigelow | |
| Posted by: Snowysdad 12:36 am EDT 04/08/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Marcus Lovett as Billy Bigelow - Ronsdivas 09:10 am EDT 04/07/21 | |
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| Going WAY back to Richard Rodgers' Music Theater of Lincoln Center Production, John Raitt played it in New York and Harve Presnell took the production on the road. Both were among the greatest Billys I ever saw. | |
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| i hear James Barbour was great as Billy too | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 03:07 pm EDT 04/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Marcus Lovett as Billy Bigelow - Ronsdivas 09:10 am EDT 04/07/21 | |
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| If I'm not incorrect, he was the first replacement... and maybe did the entire rest of the run when Hayden left? He has a phenomenal voice, that can certainly do the score justice beyond what even I claim Hayden did, beyond what most could do... and he is a solid actor for sure. I'd have lvoed to see him. But having seen him in many shows, I don't think he'd top Hayden in the acting dept, but I'm sure many audiences were far more thrilled seeing him in it than Hayden, given how shakey it's said Hayden could be vocally night to night. I'd also love to have seen Marcus Lovett, and Patrick Wilson on tour, and Brian D'Arcy James who was suggested here could have been better casting for Billy but was only in the ensemble.... but it doesn't change how revelatory I find Hayden. |
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| Did anyone else think Hayden overacted to compensate for the fact that he couldn't sing the score well? | |
| Posted by: TheOtherOne 05:33 pm EDT 04/07/21 | |
| In reply to: i hear James Barbour was great as Billy too - Chazwaza 03:07 pm EDT 04/07/21 | |
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| I did not see it very long into the run, but that's what I witnessed when I saw it. I've liked him in everything else I've seen him in, but he was a disappointing Billy. Patrick Wilson was excellent in the tour. |
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| re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 12:07 am EDT 04/07/21 | |
| In reply to: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) - Chazwaza 02:16 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
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| They're perfection. They both are these feral creatures who are living too large and too bright, afraid of the love they are feeling because they know it will destroy them. Both of the chose characters have deeply complicated psychologies, and Hayden and Murphy knew exactly how to bring them to life. Other folks can sing it better - the last revival was gorgeous to hear - but few folks could live it better than that pair. No defense needed. | |
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| re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) | |
| Posted by: Snowysdad 10:52 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
| In reply to: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) - Chazwaza 02:16 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
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| I sense that you and I come from opposite ends of the spectrum regarding acting vs. singing. I always want to hear someone who can sing a role with something to spare rather than someone who acts his or her way through a part that they can barely sing. Different strokes for different folks. Raitt sang the role magnificently and in the Lincoln Center revival acted it with much more skill than his younger self brought to the table. Joshua Henry is an excellent mix for me, his singing strong, his acting quite decent, plus the supporting cast is his equal. Opera stars as Billy are always problematic and Nathan Gunn in the NY Philharmonic video hat began this stream is the weakest member of that cast, but he still holds his own. Samuel Ramey on a recording with Barbara Cook shows exactly how NOT to do it, gruesomely oversung and underacted in an opera sort of way. | |
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| re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 01:09 am EDT 04/07/21 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 01:07 am EDT 04/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) - Snowysdad 10:52 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
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| I'm sorry but if you're describing what either Sally Murphy or Michael Hayden do on the cast album of Carousel as "barely sing" ... then yes, we are coming not only from different sides of the spectrum, but different experiences of reality. But no, I'm not somehow who wants acting despite bad singing. I was great singing and great acting at the same time. Sally and Michael are able to sing very well. I think Michael isn't trained enough, perhaps, to sustain it all the time, and Sally I think can but doesn't have the power. I'm not someone who wants a Sweeney who can act it even if he can't sing it. No thanks. But I look at the entire performance. And for me, Sally and Michael nail the singing and their acting is so incredible that it *also* makes up for whatever isn't in the singing that you wish were there. |
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| re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 10:39 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
| In reply to: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) - Chazwaza 02:16 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
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| Here's the honest truth of the situation, as I see it: Rodgers and Hammerstein wrote Billy's CAROUSEL songs in a certain way, according to how they wanted them to be sung and the type of voice they wanted to sing them: a legit or semi-legit baritenor with great beauty of tone, great strength and power to use when necessary, and the ability to deliver thrilling, ringing high notes at the top of the staff and above the staff. If R&H didn't want that kind of sound, they would have written the songs very differently -- perhaps more along the lines of Curly's songs in OKLAHOMA!, which are far less demanding for the most part. And I'm sure they COULD have written the songs very differently for a much lighter voice with a much smaller range while still allowing the singer to communicate the many emotions and moods of the character -- but, again, that's not the approach they took. The degree of tonal beauty in MIchael Hayden's singing voice is a matter of opinion, but I would say it's inarguable that his voice doesn't have much strength or power when required, and that his high register is very weak and strained, to say the least. So whatever he may have brought to the songs in terms of acting ability and good interpretive choices, he simply couldn't fulfill all of the musical/vocal requirements of the songs as written. That, I think, is a factual statement. So we're really just left with differences of opinion as to how much, if at all, it matters to various audience members (and recording listeners) that he couldn't fulfill those requirements, and whether or not whatever he did bring to the role and to the songs was enough to compensate and make for an overall satisfying performance. P.S. Whenever people have said they were so happy with Hayden's acting in CAROUSEL that they didn't care about his shortcomings when he started to sing, I always ask rhetorically if wasn't reasonable to expect that the director and producers could have found someone, among all the candidates in the British and American musical theater, who could have BOTH acted the role very well AND sung it beautifully. And at that point, I usually mention several names including Brian d'Arcy James, who was in the CHORUS of the LCT production of CAROUSEL while Hayden was playing Billy. |
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| re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 01:18 am EDT 04/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) - Michael_Portantiere 10:39 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
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| to answer your question about casting billy... no, I don't think there was. | |
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| re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:37 am EDT 04/08/21 | |
| In reply to: re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) - Chazwaza 01:18 am EDT 04/07/21 | |
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| "To answer your question about casting billy... no, I don't think there was." You don't think there was....what? You don't think there was ONE person in all of American and British musical theater who could have acted the role of Billy as well as Hayden and sung it far better? I think Brian d'Arcy James could certainly have done so, without question, and therefore it's quite ironic that he was only in the CHORUS of the LCT production of CAROUSEL. Of course, it's conceivable that those who cast the show were unaware of Brian when they were first auditioning people to play the role in England, and I have no idea exactly when they became aware of Patrick Wilson, James Barbour, and Marcus Lovett. But my point still stands that there must have been other options in casting that role. |
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| re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 11:37 am EDT 04/08/21 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 11:23 am EDT 04/08/21 | |
| In reply to: re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) - Michael_Portantiere 12:37 am EDT 04/08/21 | |
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| I didn't want to say anything about people specifically, to quote Eddie in The Wild Party, "you don't wanna make me mean!" ... But listen... yes there are many very talented singer/actors who could do great in the role, the question is (based on the album and videos), is there anyone I think could have used their particular balance of vocal/acting skills, at the time, to greater effect than Hayden... and I would say no. But obviously I don't know, at all. But let's take a few... the tour Billy - Patrick Wilson is a beautiful sexy man, fantastic singer and actor... I don't think in 1994 that his acting ability was where Hayden's was (including from videos of him in this role). The replacement Billy - James Barbour is a beautiful sexy man, a fantastic singer and a solid actor... I don't think his acting could have been as good as Hayden's from the many things I've seen him in (he does brooding well, I've seen him hired to do it many times, but still - the nuances, the layers Hayden brings, I just don't see as part of the solid acting ability Barbour possess... and I don't think Wilson fully developed the acting skill we know him to have until years later, and I think in the decade of growth he made as an actor, he hasn't really gotten to show it on stage, mainly in film/tv). And Carousel ensemble member and massive talent, Brian D'Arcy James... beautiful and sexy man, great singer, excellent actor... but... with all due respect, in the many things I've seen him in, I just don't think he brings the kind of layers Hayden did. Maybe under the same direction Hayden got from Hytner he would have. Maybe I underestimate him. This is just one man's opinion based on his own limited exposure to what these performers can do. (and I'm curious why he wasn't a replacement instead of Barbour... Barbour wasn't known for Beast yet).. BDJ wasn't even a Billy understudy. Being aware that there are people and realities i'm not aware of, I'm guessing there may have been guys we haven't brought up or thought of, or who'd have been making their debut, who could have satisfied/killed the acting and singing of the role... and maybe the only reason they didn't search for them was because the NY Times loved Hayden in London. But I tend to assume Hytner saw, and continued to see, what has colored my pointlessly firm opinion on this. ;) (which is that Hayden was the best thing for the role at the time) |
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| re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) | |
| Last Edit: altonido 11:13 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
| Posted by: altonido 11:11 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
| In reply to: re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) - Michael_Portantiere 10:39 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
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| There was little chance of someone other than Michael Hayden playing Billy at Lincoln Center as Frank Rich loved Hayden when he reviewed the production at its premiere at the National Theater, London. And one of the NY producers of the revival told me that he didn't think the production worked without Hayden. Patrick Wilson was hired to play Billy in the US tour of this production and you can compare Hayden and Wilson in the official press reels for Broadway and the tour. |
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| Link | "Carousel" Press Reels: Broadway/US Tour |
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| re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:22 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
| In reply to: re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) - altonido 11:11 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
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| Thanks for that Patrick Wilson clip! I didn't know there was any video of him in the show, and I really enjoyed that :-) | |
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| re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 07:45 am EDT 04/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) - Michael_Portantiere 11:22 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
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| When I saw the LCT Carousel on Broadway, Marcus Lovett was in for Billy and Paula Newsome was in for McDonald. I thought Lovett, in particular, sang the role thrillingly. When the tour came to the Chicago area at the notorious Rosemont Theatre, Patrick Wilson and Sarah Uriarte were quite effective as Billy and Julie. BTW Sean Palmer played Enoch. The opening scene had a staging much different than what I saw on Broadway. I thought the Broadway version was breathtaking, and the tour staging of this scene was much more low key. |
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| re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 09:01 am EDT 04/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) - BroadwayTonyJ 07:45 am EDT 04/07/21 | |
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| Just in case anyone gets the impression that the Sean Palmer who played Enoch on that tour is the Sean Palmer who is known for The Little Mermaid on Broadway and for Sex and the City on TV, he is not. The Sean Palmer who played Enoch later changed his professional name to Sean Jeremy Palmer. See link. | |
| Link | Sean Jeremy Palmer |
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| The Two Sean Palmers | |
| Last Edit: BroadwayTonyJ 05:02 pm EDT 04/07/21 | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 05:00 pm EDT 04/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) - AlanScott 09:01 am EDT 04/07/21 | |
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| Thanks for bringing up the distinction between the two Sean Palmers. This thread had inspired me to pull out my playbill for the Carousel tour which I saw in Feb., '96. When I noticed Palmer's name in the credits as Enoch, I mistakenly confused him with Sean Gregory Palmer. I saw Sean G. Palmer in Papermill's Of Thee I Sing (Sept., '04), in The Boy Friend tour as juvenile lead Tony in Dec., '05 (Chicago), and on Broadway as Prince Eric in The Little Mermaid (Dec., '07). Good-looking guy, danced and sang well, and did a fine job in some rather undemanding roles for which he seemed well suited. |
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| *typo, Hytner (not Hayden) (nm) | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 09:52 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
| In reply to: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) - Chazwaza 02:16 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
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| re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) | |
| Posted by: pagates 09:23 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
| In reply to: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) - Chazwaza 02:16 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
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| I wholeheartedly agree. I remain sad that I could only see it once, but deeply grateful that I could see it all. First act from the top of the balcony, but I was able to slide into an empty orchestra seat for the second. His Soliloquy was probably the most deeply moving moment I’ve yet experienced in theater - his acting and singing complemented each other perfectly. I began tearing up as the Soliloquy started and continued sobbing intermittently through the rest of the show. As you say, his performance along with the rest of the cast (and I want to give props to Audra as well) made this a revelatory production. What had, in every other production I’d seen (none in NY) mere treacle, unveiled depths of psychological insight and feeling that I never imagined available in this, or really any, musical. | |
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| re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) | |
| Last Edit: Chazwaza 10:04 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
| Posted by: Chazwaza 09:55 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
| In reply to: re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) - pagates 09:23 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
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| Exactly! (I intentionally left Audra out so as not to take away and spotlight from Hayden and Murphy... Audra has gotten sooooooo many props for this show (and the first Tony that elevated her status and career trajectory very quickly, and rightly so -- though I'm sure Marin had many fervent supporters that year, also rightly so), and Hayden and Murphy are almost always left in the dust. Audra is perfection, and revelatory in that role as well, but for me it didn't alter my understanding and experience of the show on the same level or amount of levels that Hayden and Murphy's did. The entire cast is amazing, very much including the exceptional and very rewarded-for-it Audra, but especially because of the somehow unsung heroes of it... the two leads. ha) |
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| "I can have all the girls I want. Don't you know that?" | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 04:52 pm EDT 04/07/21 | |
| In reply to: re: in defense of Michael Hayden (and Sally Murphy) - Chazwaza 09:55 pm EDT 04/06/21 | |
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| I expect some here will object to the comment I'm about to make, but I think a major reason why many people reacted so favorably to Michael Hayden's performance in CAROUSEL was his sex appeal, which was palpable and which is, indeed, a very important part of Billy Bigelow's character. I do think Hayden's acting was excellent as well, and I thought it really added a lot to the character that he played Billy as clearly a New Yorker in terms of his speech. (The script tells us that Billy came up to New England from Coney Island.) That said, I don't think it was the acting that was revelatory so much as the sex appeal. Thoughts? |
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| re: "I can have all the girls I want. Don't you know that?" | |
| Posted by: TheOtherOne 05:53 pm EDT 04/07/21 | |
| In reply to: "I can have all the girls I want. Don't you know that?" - Michael_Portantiere 04:52 pm EDT 04/07/21 | |
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| I think you are absolutely right. | |
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