Threaded Order Chronological Order
| re: Allegations of Physical Assault, Violent Outbursts, and Verbal Abuse | |
| Posted by: Lillebear 05:16 am EDT 04/08/21 | |
| In reply to: Allegations of Physical Assault, Violent Outbursts, and Verbal Abuse - Singapore/Fling 01:23 pm EDT 04/07/21 | |
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| I do hope this gets some traction. Bullying is, indeed, endemic to the entertainment industry. I witnessed a very well known Broadway director screaming at multiple people on the Creative team, always men. I asked around and found that this person would never be abusive to leading or featured actors, only to "lesser" creatives - and I chose the word "lesser" carefully - and people in the ensemble. The director's reputation around NYC was as a "screamer." I can't say who the director is as they have been known to bad-mouth and lie about people they think have crossed them and have tried to "blacklist" them from working in NYC. Not worth the risk. Just after witnessing this, I heard a wonderful phrase from a Grip on a film: "being an insufferable megalomanic is by no ways a prerequisite to making great films." |
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| re: Allegations of Physical Assault, Violent Outbursts, and Verbal Abuse | |
| Last Edit: JereNYC 11:12 am EDT 04/08/21 | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 11:08 am EDT 04/08/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Allegations of Physical Assault, Violent Outbursts, and Verbal Abuse - Lillebear 05:16 am EDT 04/08/21 | |
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| And this right here is part of the ongoing issue. This person is terrified to post the name of an abusive person in their professional life EVEN ON AN ANONYMOUS FORUM for fear of retaliation. We have a culture that excuses horrific behavior if the abuser is talented enough and it isn't new and it has to stop. We still hear stories about Jerome Robbins that cuddle the blood...but he was a genius, so it's all okay. Arthur Laurents seems to have gotten a pass for all kinds of abusive behavior. None of this is okay and we, as a culture, need to not protect abusers just because they're talented. I don't care if this director referenced here has 10 Tonys and is in line to have a theatre named after him/her, this behavior needs to stop and, if it doesn't, this person's career needs to end. There are a lot of talented people out there who aren't abusive and, if we clear out some of these garbage humans, maybe we can make room for some of them. But how do we do that if people are terrified of retaliation if they name names? |
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| Who? | |
| Posted by: reed23 06:17 am EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Allegations of Physical Assault, Violent Outbursts, and Verbal Abuse - JereNYC 11:08 am EDT 04/08/21 | |
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| So we have "a culture that excuses horrific behavior" and "it has to stop." "This behavior needs to stop or this person's career needs to end." So who is going to stop what? 1) Stop the culture from excusing, or 2) Stop the horrific behavior? Who is in charge of putting the accused parties on trial, amassing and evaluating the evidence, in what forum, and under what authority, using what powers to "end" someone's career? Stories about Jerome Robbins? I've heard generalities, but no specific stories. I'm not saying there weren't any; I just don't know what they are. Likewise Arthur Laurents. I worked (several times) with one of the most famous Broadway composers, whose personal abusiveness I experienced firsthand. None of it was actionable, as extremely unpleasant as it was. He's dead now, so no amorphous Someone or Committee can end his career, nor did I ever detect anything actionable, either legally, or in violation of any union (not that any had control over his career or work habits or social relations.) I worked with one of the most manipulative, emotionally abusive Broadway dance captains I could imagine – she worked and wreaked havoc upon people's lives for decades. She answered to no one, except maybe the aging choreographer, who was offsite almost throughout. The most successful choreographer of our current time has an abusive side about which I heard first hand. So – yeah, some highest-level people in our biz (and in any biz) are eligible for the term "abusive." I get it, I've heard it, I've seen it. Two other considerations: It isn't just power-people. A number of stars in various media (inc. theatre) are nightmare-abusive, to fellow cast, crew, directors and higher-ups. Some of those careers have suffered, or met their just desserts. A majority, not in the slightest. Who's going to adjudicate those cases? And regarding the pool of "talented people" who aren't "garbage human beings" (a phrase I've never applied to anyone, since everyone has a backstory and a humanity, even those deemed unpleasant – you know, WICKED): When it costs 7-8 digits to put up a Broadway show, the tower of investor names above the title aren't going to take a time-out to mull over whether they want the one with 10 Tonys or the one someone-or-other said was nice. No lead producer(s) would even gain access to those names and their 8-digit millions in the first place without pre-packaging the one with 10 Tonys. Hopefully, abusive people will increasingly be marginalized, with new awareness and responsibility on all the many sides. But I wouldn't count on it, most certainly not in the next 5-10 years, as all the good intentions and Broadway social justice warriors of all stripes bump into this one little powerful guy whose temporary absence has allowed them to flower in the first place: a little guy named Ticket Sales. |
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| re: Who? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 09:55 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: Who? - reed23 06:17 am EDT 04/09/21 | |
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| "Two other considerations: It isn't just power-people. A number of stars in various media (inc. theatre) are nightmare-abusive, to fellow cast, crew, directors and higher-ups. " But I would say that, in most cases, any stars who act that way are -- or, at least perceive themselves to be -- power-people themselves. |
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| re: Who? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 11:39 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Who? - Michael_Portantiere 09:55 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
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| I would say in general there are people who act like that and people who are demanding without any reason. We can't cure that. But it should not obscure that there are situations in which power is real (and that can certainly include some "stars") and used in an unacceptable way. That needs to be the focus. | |
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| re: Who? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 03:40 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: Who? - reed23 06:17 am EDT 04/09/21 | |
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| All true, and also why our industry is toxic and rewards toxicity. Also why many folks are questioning whether they want to return to this business once live theater resumes. Bad behavior is rewarded and people are treated like garbage. | |
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| re: Who? | |
| Posted by: JereNYC (JereNYC@aol.com) 11:06 am EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: Who? - reed23 06:17 am EDT 04/09/21 | |
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| Well, the only thing that will really work is for people to stop employing/working with people who are abusive. If a director exhibits abusive behavior, producers and theatres need to stop hiring him/her. If it's a producer, go get your financing elsewhere or decline to work with projects originating there. My whole point here is that there are people that "everyone knows" are nightmares. But if there were consequences for their behavior (ie: work dries up), those people will either go away and be replaced by people who are, hopefully, not nightmares or they will change their behavior. Being abusive is not in any way a prerequisite for being talented or even being a genius. And continually making excuses and ignoring abusive behavior doesn't affect the genius, and will encourage the abuse. The greater issue at the moment is retaliation. We need to figure out how to protect people who are brave enough to come forward and speak about their experiences with such people. |
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| re: Allegations of Physical Assault, Violent Outbursts, and Verbal Abuse | |
| Posted by: ryhog 12:12 pm EDT 04/08/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Allegations of Physical Assault, Violent Outbursts, and Verbal Abuse - JereNYC 11:08 am EDT 04/08/21 | |
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| The answer is simple (you have to change the culture) but the execution is hard. The retaliation is itself a component of the architecture of abuse. | |
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