Threaded Order Chronological Order
| "The digital season" | |
| Posted by: jjbkvm 05:57 pm EDT 04/08/21 | |
|
|
|
| Can i just say, I’m tired of "streaming theater". Its not live. It’s the same as watching PBS on tv. What is the benefit of live streaming over tapped streaming? Theater is a communal experience. Streaming theater or live concerts is just an mtv show. I don’t want my mtv!! | |
| reply to this message |
| re: "The digital season" | |
| Posted by: PlazaBoy 04:21 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: "The digital season" - jjbkvm 05:57 pm EDT 04/08/21 | |
|
|
|
| I agree. I'm glad streaming theater exists and that it provides needed revenue, but I never really took to it. I tried, but it just isn't enjoyable for me. I think I need to sit it out until I can see things in person. The communal experience is such a bog component for me. | |
| reply to this message |
| Whether you're pro or con, it's not going anywhere. | |
| Posted by: ShowGoer 09:44 am EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: "The digital season" - jjbkvm 05:57 pm EDT 04/08/21 | |
|
|
|
| There's no need to miss it, just as there's no need to ever watch a streamed play again if you don't want to. But as I've said before, streaming theatre and/or filmed productions are here to stay. It was already becoming more mainstream thanks to everything from BroadwayHD to National Theatre Live in Cinemas to the few things that Netflix filmed themselves like "Springstreen on Broadway" and "Oh Hello". But now that theatres have seen the outreach that 'streaming theater" can provide – thousands of people who've never heard of the Irish Rep or the Mint, for example, tuning in to see their shows from all over the world – it will increasingly be a part of the ecosystem in some way going forward. Like I say, no one who's sick of theater on a TV screen or computer monitor ever needs to tune in again, just as anyone who watched Hamilton or American Utopia live and saw them as quintessential in-person stage experiences needed to ever watch the filmed versions on Disney+ or HBO Max. But there are also people with disabilities, people growing older, people with social anxiety issues, etc., who will gladly pay to see these things at home. No doubt issues still need to be worked out, either in a blanket way with the U.S. unions or on a show-by-show theater-by-theater basis – and it'll obviously never "replace" live theater – but it's another tool in the toolbox that theatres and producers won't want to give up on so easily. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| I do wonder how profitable it would be. | |
| Posted by: dramedy 02:06 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: Whether you're pro or con, it's not going anywhere. - ShowGoer 09:44 am EDT 04/09/21 | |
|
|
|
| NTlive stats are all I’ve seen. In 2015 they spent £5.1m and earned £6m and 2016 spent £4.4m to earn £5.3m. I’m guessing the second number is actual profit but it could be the difference is actual profit which isn’t much for a worldwide distribution. And London film costs are £300 compared to US film cost of $2-4m. If those numbers are correct, then shows like bandstand and allegiance probably lost money in filming while London shows like 42nd street and Billy Elliot were profitable. It’s probably why American in Paris was filmed in London. So I don’t see a lot of change in broadway filming. But regional theaters cost are probably substantially less and might have less issues and exposure of subscription season might outweigh any loss in streaming. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: MockingbirdGirl 10:30 pm EDT 04/08/21 | |
| In reply to: "The digital season" - jjbkvm 05:57 pm EDT 04/08/21 | |
|
|
|
| Absolutely no one is claiming that it's the same as, or equal to, an in-person theatrical experience. No one. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 06:49 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: Do you wanna build a straw man? - MockingbirdGirl 10:30 pm EDT 04/08/21 | |
|
|
|
| "Absolutely no one is claiming that it's the same as, or equal to, an in-person theatrical experience. No one." Thank you. I really HATE straw man arguments -- and what I hate most about them is that the person who makes such an argument assumes the people who hear it will be stupid enough not to realize it is, in fact, a straw man argument. Someone tried this on me recently, and let's just say I did not react well, to put it mildly. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Last Edit: ryhog 08:12 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| Posted by: ryhog 08:11 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - Michael_Portantiere 06:49 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
|
|
|
| In general, I am with you on this but: What about when the argument labeled as "straw man" isn't straw at all? Because as I note below, Dramedy seems to be saying that he finds watching theatre on his gigantic TV to be not only the same as an in-person theatrical experience but actually better. And Dramedy is not "no one." This reminds me of a familiar exchange I used to have with my father when I was in high school and I wanted to stay out half the night with my friends. "Everyone's doing it," I would argue, to which he would respond, "No, you are not doing it, and you are a part of everyone, so what you say is incorrect." Ah, adolescence. :-) |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 09:00 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - ryhog 08:11 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
|
|
|
| Yes, sometimes people call "straw man" because it lets them off the hook of questioning their own point of view; far easier to presume that the other person is being conniving and stupid than to consider that they're being genuine and reflective. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 09:41 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - Singapore/Fling 09:00 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
|
|
|
| ***Yes, sometimes people call "straw man" because it lets them off the hook of questioning their own point of view; far easier to presume that the other person is being conniving and stupid than to consider that they're being genuine and reflective.**** I'm sure some people sometimes do that, but as far as I'm concerned, the rules are clear as to what constitutes (or not) a straw man argument, and those rules are not a matter of opinion. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 10:40 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - Michael_Portantiere 09:41 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
|
|
|
| We might agree that the rules are not a matter of opinion, but we don't agree that people aren't prey to being righteously self-convinced that someone else has broken those rules. I've seen people lose their minds over what they are convinced is a straw man argument when they're completely in the wrong. But then, they were convinced that other folks like myself were completely in the wrong. That's because ultimately, it is all about perception and how we choose to understand another person, insisting on ideas of absolute fact while being hopelessly lost in objective opinion. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:14 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - Singapore/Fling 10:40 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
|
|
|
| We're getting into semantics here. Again, the definition of a straw man argument or fallacy is clear. So no matter how strongly someone is convinced that someone else's position is a straw man fallacy, one should be able to objectively examine the argument and decide whether or not that's true. If I were to say "I think we should have universal health care in the U.S." and someone else were to respond, "Sorry, I don't believe the government should give every citizen everything they want for free," that would be clearly be a straw man argument, because I never said that. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 12:31 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - Michael_Portantiere 12:14 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
|
|
|
| "one should be able to objectively examine the argument and decide whether or not that's true." 100% agree, but I have found that when people bust out "Straw Man!" as their response, it's often because they don't want to examine the argument. In this thread alone, straw man was tossed out with the insistence that no one was talking about replacing live theater with streamed theater, even though someone had totally written how excited they were to replace live theater with streaming theater. And that's just the low hanging fruit, lol. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:29 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - Singapore/Fling 12:31 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
|
|
|
| "In this thread alone, straw man was tossed out with the insistence that no one was talking about replacing live theater with streamed theater, even though someone had totally written how excited they were to replace live theater with streaming theater." But maybe the people who cried "straw man" didn't read that particular, highly unusual comment. I think it's fair to say that the VAST majority of people don't feel that streaming theater should REPLACE live theater, so it would be a straw man argument to insist that those people DO feel that way. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 01:51 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - Michael_Portantiere 12:29 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
|
|
|
| Leaving aside the use and misuse of the rhetorical device, the original post by MBG was absolute in its terms, and absolutism around here is not unfamiliar even though it is almost never accurate. The OP was making its point by insisting (as fact) that there were no dissenters (highly unusual or not). I'd add that, although what Dramedy said is indeed highly unusual and surprising in this precinct, it is certainly not true that the vast majority of people overall elevate live theatre above something they can watch from their couch (ditto, of course, even for going to a movie theatre). This is one reason I feel so strongly about streaming being an unhealthy thing for the theatre. It vitiates the #1 selling point live theatre has. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 03:31 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - ryhog 01:51 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
|
|
|
| "I'd add that, although what Dramedy said is indeed highly unusual and surprising in this precinct, it is certainly not true that the vast majority of people overall elevate live theatre above something they can watch from their couch (ditto, of course, even for going to a movie theatre). " If you don't think that the vast majority of people who post here certainly do feel exactly that way, then I can only say that I strongly disagree with you. We are, of course, NOT discussing the general population, so your use of the word "overall" is odd in this context. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 04:00 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - Michael_Portantiere 03:31 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
|
|
|
| I read "[a]bsolutely no one" in MBG's post literally. Reading it your way (and assuming MBG had not read what Dramedy wrote), then we are in agreement. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| Did you miss what Dramedy wrote a few minutes before you? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 10:36 pm EDT 04/08/21 | |
| In reply to: Do you wanna build a straw man? - MockingbirdGirl 10:30 pm EDT 04/08/21 | |
|
|
|
| It surprised me (and kinda saddened me) but Dramedy is not a scarecrow. :-) I want my live theatre back, with all its warts. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| It's not either/or. | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 02:57 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: Did you miss what Dramedy wrote a few minutes before you? - ryhog 10:36 pm EDT 04/08/21 | |
|
|
|
| Right, but we can have both. In the same way that a cast album does not replace live theater but preserves a record of it, a filmed/streamed theater piece does not replace live theater but preserves a record of it. And particularly as a teacher - but also as a fan - I'm grateful that I can watch and re-watch iconic productions and performances. And when we look at the environmental and practical costs of domestic and international travel, I'm grateful for any chance I can have to watch a production from the UK or the Netherlands or the West Coast from my living room in New York (with my 55 inch TV, but also sometimes on my laptop). Just like gender, this isn't a binary. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| In this post, I was not suggesting it was. | |
| Posted by: ryhog 04:04 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: It's not either/or. - Singapore/Fling 02:57 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
|
|
|
| Dramedy was extolling the virtues of watching at home vs. theatre and sounded (I hope he comes to his senses :-) ) like he was happy with the current state of affairs. All I said in my post is that I am eager to get back in my cramped seat for live performances. In other threads in the past, I have argued that it should be binary, because I think this filming thing is a bad and unhealthy idea for the theatre in the long term. But that's not what this thread is about and I don't really want to hijack it to make it about that. LOL |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| That's good, because it isn't ;-P | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 04:10 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: In this post, I was not suggesting it was. - ryhog 04:04 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
|
|
|
| I mean, the whole point of a message board is that it's a space for conversation, so I don't think a thread can really be highjacked by allowing it to lead to conversation. And whether or not you were hitting upon that in this specific thread, we know this to be your point of view, so that is present in what you write. In dramedy's case, I'm kind of okay with him not going back to the theater, lol, because the audience members that *I* can't stand are the ones who get annoyed at other audience members and make a fuss that is even more distracting. I can ignore someone's rustling with candy, but I have a harder time ignoring the person who keeps glaring at the person with candy. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: That's good, because it isn't ;-P | |
| Posted by: ryhog 04:38 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: That's good, because it isn't ;-P - Singapore/Fling 04:10 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
|
|
|
| I can ignore both. Meditation helps, although not recommended except during scene changes. :-) | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: That's good, because it isn't ;-P | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 04:41 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: re: That's good, because it isn't ;-P - ryhog 04:38 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
|
|
|
| I mean, some shows I just take a nap for a bit. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| The wizard refused to give me a brain | |
| Posted by: dramedy 02:07 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: Did you miss what Dramedy wrote a few minutes before you? - ryhog 10:36 pm EDT 04/08/21 | |
|
|
|
| Probably no surprise to this group of posters. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: The wizard refused to give me a brain | |
| Posted by: ryhog 02:42 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: The wizard refused to give me a brain - dramedy 02:07 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
|
|
|
| I guess you had to buy it at the same place you got that 800 inch TV you are so proud of nowadays. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| It’s 799 inch. | |
| Posted by: dramedy 03:07 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: re: The wizard refused to give me a brain - ryhog 02:42 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
|
|
|
| Wouldn’t you be proud to upgrade from a 32inch CRT from 2004. It does make watching theater a lot more enjoyable than a laptop for pic and sound. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: It’s 799 inch. | |
| Posted by: ryhog 03:33 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: It’s 799 inch. - dramedy 03:07 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
|
|
|
| are you angry about the inch? | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| I’m going to miss it. | |
| Last Edit: dramedy 10:18 pm EDT 04/08/21 | |
| Posted by: dramedy 10:13 pm EDT 04/08/21 | |
| In reply to: "The digital season" - jjbkvm 05:57 pm EDT 04/08/21 | |
|
|
|
| I have lost interest in the readings. But I enjoy both the taped plays prepandemic and some of the plays done in the last year (some written for streaming and some productions fully staged). I don’t miss people talking during the show, fiddling with their playbills, humming along, eating and drinking and chewing gum etc. I’m tall and fat and barely fit in theater seats with my knees pressed against the seat in front of me. Or someone wears a hat during the performance. And i know I’ve blocked peoples view because I’m tall. I have to wear earplugs to most musicals because the sound guy in the back of the theater is partially deaf and cranks up the volume so the sound is overamplified and muddled. Let’s not start about bathroom during intermission. I think comedies are about the only show that does benefit from an audience. But then I’ve had horrible people over laughing ruining it for everyone around them or cheer and whistle after everysong—the show isn’t about you watching it. It is so nice to watch a show and go to bed or watch something else without dealing with a 30 minute or more commute to get home. I’ve seriously contemplated my returning to the theater and putting up with all of that. I think the communal experience is over rated. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: I’m going to miss it. | |
| Posted by: jjbkvm 05:35 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: I’m going to miss it. - dramedy 10:13 pm EDT 04/08/21 | |
|
|
|
| I’m not against recording performance for future viewing, I actually like viewing these recordings and think there is a historical reason for perusing these archives. What I was referring to was the fact that "streaming live" holds no excitement for me. Isn’t every performance, concert, video, film "live" at the time of the recording? But its not the same experience as being in the room with the performers. Thats what I meant by communal. I just yearn for live performances. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
Time to render: 0.105853 seconds.