Threaded Order Chronological Order
| A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: EvFoDr 01:08 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
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| Been thinking about the show a lot since the 50th anniversary, and revisiting recordings. Had a few thougths/questions. I have read that Sondheim doesn't like his songs being changed by artists. I got to thinking about how much the audience just eats up Ethel Shutta's Broadway Baby. But then it struck me that she seems to have crafted her own version of the lyric "a spark to pierce the dark from battery park..." which became "a spark piercin' the dark". And later in the song she speaks/yells "CASH" between some lyrics. Anyone have any insight into this? Also regarding Broadway Baby, does anyone know why Stritch took the tempo so slow for Follies in Concert? This was my first introduction to the song and I initially liked it, not knowing any better. But once I heard the bright energetic tempo that made so much more sense to me. Again, I heard or read that Sondheim was not a huge fan of what Stritch did with the song. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: pecansforall 01:03 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: A few FOLLIES thoughts - EvFoDr 01:08 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
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| In my humble opinion I doubt Sondheim was concerned about the tempo even if it was at Stritch's request (or demand). We have to remember that he made an even more significant change to the number by not finishing it with the original montage which adds in Emily, Theodore, and Solange singing their numbers as a group with Hattie. Doing this created the opportunity for a huge round of applause specifically for Stritch alone. | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:15 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - pecansforall 01:03 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| I was going to mention the cutting of the montage. I have heard two different reports: That this was done due to lack of rehearsal time, and that, more specifically, it was done because Stritch couldn't/wouldn't learn the montage version. Or maybe she just wanted the focus to be more on her at the end of the number, even though I guess she had to agree to allow Comden & Green and Liliane Montevecchi to join her for the last few words, "in a great, big Broadway show." :-) The Philharmonic FOLLIES was a major event primarily because of the audience's affection for a brilliant show that had already gained legendary, beloved status even though it was not a big success in its original run, also of course because the concert was star-studded (even if several of the stars were arguably miscast), and ultimately for the the aspects of the concert that were indeed wonderful (Barbara Cook's gorgeous performance, the magnificent sound of that music being played by the Philharmonic). But I think it's fair to say that the performance of the score didn't turn out to be the definitive, complete version that was originally intended, because of the miscasting and also due to changes/cuts that were made to simplify the presentation, partly due to lack of rehearsal time. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 04:57 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 12:15 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| I can't imagine that Stritch *couldn't* learn the montage - it wasn't at that point all that long ago that she had made her way through all the "Bobby baby" stuff in Company, etc. So it must have been a more willful decision. | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 03:15 am EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Chromolume 04:57 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| I posted about this elsewhere in this thread. I think there was no way that those four people were going to be able to learn that in the very limited rehearsal time they had. They did not need to have a complete train wreck happen in performance, and I think there is a very good chance that would have happened. I doubt those four people could have gotten through it once in rehearsal with just a piano and with Gemignani or Paul Ford giving them cues they could see. How long had it been since Comden and Green had performed a song that they did not write? And with a couple of exceptions, the only songs they had performed for a long time had been songs that they had been performing for decades. On the second night, Montevecchi (a former ballet dancer) had trouble staying with the orchestra. In Sondheim & Co., Fritz Holt said that it took the entire first morning of Company rehearsals to get through the first page, and it was scary. In the quote, he starts by saying that the title number was the most difficult to stage of anything he's ever seen, but his comment about the first morning and the first page seems to be specifically about getting the cast to just learn the beginning of the title song, when to come in with their "Bobby baby"s and "Bobby bubi"s. And 15 years (1970 to 1985) is a long time. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 01:12 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - AlanScott 03:15 am EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| I see your point, but is that section of the score really THAT difficult? This is an honest question, as I'm only going by what I hear on the recordings that do include that section, and I haven't seen how it's written out. At any rate, it has always seemed ironic to me that, since the primary, original motivation for the NY Philharmonic FOLLIES was to arrive at a complete recorded performance of the score, those involved were apparently so willing to change or cut sections of the score with the justification that "we won't have time to rehearse that properly." This would include the elimination of the mashup we're discussing here, the performance of "The God-Why-Don't-You-Love-Me Blues" as a solo for Buddy (!!!) rather than including the two women, and even something so simple as having Arthur Rubin sing the "Careful, here's the home of...." verse of "Beautiful Girls" as a solo, rather than have the full company sing it as written. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 10:24 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 01:12 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| I think it is difficult. It was also not used in the Roundabout production, and I know of other productions haven't used it because they ran out of time for the people to learn it. The three songs were not written to be sung together, and they don't fit together especially well. In 1985, there weren't commercial recordings of the section that might have helped the performers. In the score, the time signature switches from 4/4 to 2/4, which I think is a not big thing. I think the main things to remember about that section in relation to the concert is (a) there was very little rehearsal time, and (b) they couldn't see the conductor. In Everything Was Possible, Chapin writes that at the first preview in Boston "putting the three numbers together in the Montage seemed shaky." Those people had had weeks of rehearsal, and they had a conductor they could see. And that was after two dress rehearsals on the day before the first preview, and one in the afternoon on the day of the first preview. So with very little rehearsal, and all the other factors, to which I would add how long had it been since Comden and Green had sung in public with an orchestra, I think it would have been foolhardy to try it. As I said, the night I was there, Montevecchi had trouble staying with the orchestra. And on the first night, Patinkin stopped "The Right Girl" and started over. And he was young. I think the whole thing was very difficult. More rehearsal was needed. I don't know that lack of rehearsal time was the reason for all the things you mention, but I do think it was probably at least part of the reason for not doing the counterpoint at the end of what the score calls the "Montage." I was certainly hugely disappointed by how much of the score was not played and how many changes were made. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 01:04 pm EDT 04/12/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - AlanScott 10:24 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| Thanks. I think you're right about all of this, and your point that the performers in the NY Phil concert could not see the conductor is especially well taken. I am a little surprised that, having decided to have the montage, Sondheim didn't take care to make it not especially difficult to sing. And, like you, I wouldn't think the switch of time signature from 4/4 to 2/4 would be that big a deal. But whatever :-) |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 01:36 pm EDT 04/12/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 01:04 pm EDT 04/12/21 | |
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| At this time, virtually the entire "Follies" section had yet to be written. He had a lot else on his mind. According to Chapin, it was Hal Hastings who put together the counterpoint section, which is par for the course. People are sometimes surprised by how much Sondheim — not just Sondheim, of course, among Broadway composers — gives over to the musical director, orchestrator, dance arranger and sometimes others who, if I can trust what I have heard, Sondheim doesn't even know did the work to put together some important musical material. I didn't even know till relatively recently — perhaps not until Everything Was Possible, although I think I did know this a bit before then — that "One More Kiss" was written as a solo. It wasn't till rehearsals that they decided to make it a duet, taking advantage of Victoria Mallory having been hired and having little to do, with the small role she had been partly hired for gradually disappearing. When it was decided, Hastings was the one who made it into a duet. I can remember years ago mentioning here that Sondheim rarely has done the vocal arrangements, and being challenged by someone who just could not believe that he wouldn't have. I had quotes from both Gemignani and Sondheim himself about this. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: larry13 04:38 pm EDT 04/12/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - AlanScott 01:36 pm EDT 04/12/21 | |
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| Very informative, as always, thanks. This sent me back to FINISHING THE HAT where I was surprised to find that Sondheim writes a very long note to the reader after the lyrics for "One More Kiss," beginning "This was the first song I wrote for FOLLIES" but never saying anything about it being originally a solo. This is not at all to state that I doubt the veracity of what you've learned. MAYBE Sondheim was so caught up with writing at length about pastiche that he forgot and/or neglected to mention that the song changed after that initial writing. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Billhaven 10:59 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - AlanScott 10:24 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| These concerts are put together so quickly that each performer gets very few opportunities to work on their numbers at length. They simply have to keep moving on. This concert involved many vets who had not performed in a while, as you stated. The pressure is intense. | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 01:09 pm EDT 04/12/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Billhaven 10:59 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| ***These concerts are put together so quickly that each performer gets very few opportunities to work on their numbers at length. They simply have to keep moving on. This concert involved many vets who had not performed in a while, as you stated.*** I'm aware of that, but I have also head of many cases where, as soon as the lead performers sign on for these things, some of them arrange to work privately with coaches and pianists on their material before they even get to the first actual rehearsal. I think that's very wise, and it's certainly what I would do if I knew I were going to be singing/performing a role in a major venue and that it was going to be recorded by a major label. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 01:38 pm EDT 04/12/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 01:09 pm EDT 04/12/21 | |
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| Trouble in this case would have been that even if they had done that, they all would have needed to get together to work on the counterpoint section. | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: BroadwayTonyJ 11:29 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Billhaven 10:59 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| I remember Thomas Shepard commenting about the concert and the recording. They had a very tight budget. Although it's hard to believe today, but back in 1985 Broadway recordings were expected to turn a profit or at least break even. | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:41 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 01:12 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
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| ...the performance of "The God-Why-Don't-You-Love-Me Blues" as a solo for Buddy (!!!) rather than including the two women... I would LOVE to know how that came about. Perhaps the worst moment in the whole concert. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 09:35 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: A few FOLLIES thoughts - EvFoDr 01:08 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
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| ***I have read that Sondheim doesn't like his songs being changed by artists. I got to thinking about how much the audience just eats up Ethel Shutta's Broadway Baby. But then it struck me that she seems to have crafted her own version of the lyric "a spark to pierce the dark from battery park..." which became "a spark piercin' the dark". And later in the song she speaks/yells "CASH" between some lyrics. Anyone have any insight into this?*** I would guess that, while Sondheim is indeed meticulous about having his songs performed as written, he might have been inclined to forgive an elderly performer for not singing exactly what he had written. Shutta did get it right for the cast album, and I would think that was important to Sondheim. ***Also regarding Broadway Baby, does anyone know why Stritch took the tempo so slow for Follies in Concert? *** I'm willing to bet, and I mean this sincerely, that she sang it SO slow because that meant the audience's attention would be on her for a slightly longer period of time. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: seenenuf 07:07 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: A few FOLLIES thoughts - EvFoDr 01:08 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
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| "Does anyone know why Stritch took the tempo so slow for Follies in Concert?" It's called Unbridled Ego. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: IvyLeagueDropout 09:42 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - seenenuf 07:07 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
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| I am a big fan of Stritch AND I am aware that she was well known for being very difficult to work with. That being said, the show had a director, music director and input from the authors. If Stritch had control of the tempo of her song, it would suggest that those professionals either agreed with it being slow or were shrinking violets. I doubt it was the latter. FWIW I also prefer it fast in Follies, although it's context in At Liberty is better served with the slow, methodical delivery. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:03 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - IvyLeagueDropout 09:42 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
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| Good point, but I honestly think Stritch was the type that could get people like Herbert Ross, Paul Gemignani, and yes even Sondheim to defer to her, at least to a certain extent. I suppose if any of those people had really HATED the slow tempo, they might not have allowed Stritch to sing the song that way, but short of that, they may have let her go with it just because they didn't want the emotional drama of fighting her on it. Of course, this is just speculation on my part, but I'm kind of thinking that if anyone else had sung "Broadway Baby" in that concert, they would have sung it more or less the tempo we hear on the original Broadway cast album. | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: IvyLeagueDropout 06:09 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 12:03 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| Ethel Shutta had as part of her appeal (as I gather from comments, I was not around to see her performance) being an older lady displaying a youthful energy and bright-eyed charm. I think the powers that be might have just thought that Stritch had a naturally jaded and sarcastic demeanor. I speculate that they might have just thought that Stritch performing it a la Shutta would not have been believable, and they decided on a new take. As it is, I don't think Stritch was very good casting in the role. The only part I think she would be good casting for would have been Carlotta, although even there she lacks a certain faded sexuality I think the role needs. | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: larry13 08:04 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - IvyLeagueDropout 06:09 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| Hasn't it been commented on(at the time? over the years?)that Stritch and Carol Burnett should have switched songs? That Stritch was the more appropriate choice for "I'm Still Here" and Burnett(especially in 1985)for "Broadway Baby?" | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:24 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - larry13 08:04 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| ***Hasn't it been commented on(at the time? over the years?)that Stritch and Carol Burnett should have switched songs? That Stritch was the more appropriate choice for "I'm Still Here" and Burnett(especially in 1985)for "Broadway Baby?"*** Further than that, I have heard it rumored that it WAS originally intended for Stritch to do "I'm Still Here" and Burnett to do "Broadway Baby," but according to that rumor, the switch was made because everyone eventually realized there was no way Stritch could sing those high notes at the end of "I'm Still Here," so she would have had to literally scream them. I have no idea if this is true, but it sure sounds plausible to me. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: larry13 12:55 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 12:24 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| Very interesting, thanks. But--without taking the trouble to try to locate and listen to Stritch singing "I'm Still Here"--she DID much later sing the song and I believe on multiple occasions, including at least one major Sondheim tribute. Did she transpose down the final high notes? Or did she sing them and they were or were not so painful? Or were the powers that be just being more cautious in 1985? Or was this NOT the reason she and Burnett sang the songs they did at that concert? |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 03:22 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - larry13 12:55 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| ***Without taking the trouble to try to locate and listen to Stritch singing "I'm Still Here"--she DID much later sing the song and I believe on multiple occasions, including at least one major Sondheim tribute. Did she transpose down the final high notes? Or did she sing them and they were or were not so painful? Or were the powers that be just being more cautious in 1985?*** I took the trouble to re-watch and re-listen, to refresh my memory. (See link.) On this occasion, the whole song was transposed downward for Stritch, but as you can see and hear, she screams the final notes anyway. She also paraphrases and/or slightly flubs several of the lyrics towards the end. I'm guessing the powers that be felt it was okay for her to perform the song that way out of context in a tribute concert, rather than as part of a performance that was intended to result in a more or less definitive recording of the score of FOLLIES. |
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| Link | Elaine Stritch, "I'm Still Here" |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: seenenuf 09:47 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 03:22 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| she screams the final notes anyway... Horror show. She screamed everything. Not having talent. More a disquise. Indeed. She also paraphrases and/or slightly flubs several of the lyrics Unbridled Ego |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: IvyLeagueDropout 01:33 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - larry13 12:55 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| Forgive my ignorance, but did the Follies concert in 1985 not also perform the script? Was it literally just a concert of the music, and not an Encores!-esque minimalist presentation of the actual show? The reason I ask is that if the show was just music, then I can't imagine them casting anyone they didn't want singing the song the way the creative team wanted to hear it. If the concert was more than just music, then I presume they liked what the performers brought to the role overall, including but not limited to song interpretation. As for Stritch and I'm Still Here, I am fascinated by her performance of it. In At Liberty she performs it giving off a Carlotta style sense of having had a tumultuous life in and out of showbiz. At the Sondheim 80th birthday celebration (where I think she was a good 5 or more years older, and notably more frail) she sings it with a robust relief to that she's still alive and glad to be out here one more time. Honestly, her mannerisms and demeanor in the last minute of that performance are probably a lot closer to Shutta's Broadway Baby than any time Stritch ever performed that song. I'm not sure if any notes were transposed or not; Stritch kind of goes back and forth between legit singing and song-speak. And she might be the only performer I've ever heard with a song-speak belt. Kind of a hyper shout-speak. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 03:28 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - IvyLeagueDropout 01:33 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| "Forgive my ignorance, but did the Follies concert in 1985 not also perform the script? Was it literally just a concert of the music, and not an Encores!-esque minimalist presentation of the actual show?" I'm pretty sure there was only minimal dialogue included. "The reason I ask is that if the show was just music, then I can't imagine them casting anyone they didn't want singing the song the way the creative team wanted to hear it. If the concert was more than just music, then I presume they liked what the performers brought to the role overall, including but not limited to song interpretation." I think -- and I'm sure some people would strongly disagree with me -- that some of the roles were cast more for star quality and box-office draw than appropriateness for those roles. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:56 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 03:28 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| I'm pretty sure there was only minimal dialogue included. And a lot of it reconceived/newly written for the concert. Including that whole weird last monologue by Weissman involving the reprise of "Beautiful Girls." |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 09:08 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Chromolume 08:56 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| ***And a lot of it reconceived/newly written for the concert. Including that whole weird last monologue by Weissman involving the reprise of "Beautiful Girls."*** Yes, thanks. I hadn't mentioned that new section, which I hate like poison. Presumably done under some terribly misguided notion that the concert needed to finish with a more substantial musical ending than the deeply sad and moving (and absolutely perfect) "Hi....girls....Ben.....Sally?" |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 09:27 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 09:08 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| The worst thing is that I know of at least one director that tacked that ending onto a full production of the show. Or, should I say an overstuffed production which included a number of the cut songs. Dreadful. | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 11:52 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Chromolume 09:27 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| ***The worst thing is that I know of at least one director that tacked that ending onto a full production of the show. Or, should I say an overstuffed production which included a number of the cut songs. Dreadful.*** I hope that person is no longer working. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 01:08 am EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 11:52 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| I don't know. This was a community theatre production back in 1991 - I can't even remember the director's name. (I was the pianist in the pit, coming in at the last minute to fill in.) | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: pecansforall 03:54 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Michael_Portantiere 03:28 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| I don't why but I seem to recall that the show wasn't originally envisioned as the huge and legendary event that it became. Over time, as casting began to fall into place the already excited word-of-mouth became more and more rabid. And then I think an album deal was made. And then the PBS deal was made. In the documentary Carol Burnett says something like they all thought it was going to be an easy gig but then they realized/learned that everything was going to be documented and recorded. I could be wrong. But there is no question that this is one of the most legendary events in Broadway history. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: larry13 04:17 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - pecansforall 03:54 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| Burnett herself has also told the story that she originally thought it was just going to be a recording and that not until her friend Beverly Sills told her she was "coming to see it" did she realize that it was going to be a concert event. | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 09:11 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - larry13 04:17 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| ***Burnett herself has also told the story that she originally thought it was just going to be a recording and that not until her friend Beverly Sills told her she was "coming to see it" did she realize that it was going to be a concert event.*** I have heard/read that before, and I still don't understand how such a misunderstanding could have been remotely possible. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: pecansforall 04:23 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - larry13 04:17 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| Ah! Thanks for the clarification on what Burnett said. You are correct. | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: IvyLeagueDropout 11:28 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - larry13 08:04 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| I'd never heard that, but it would seem better casting. Of course, 1-off concert productions I guess will always run the risk of having people cast in them (or in roles) that would not necessarily work in a traditional production. Patinkin comes to mind. Certainly way too young. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: showtunetrivia 02:28 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - IvyLeagueDropout 11:28 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| In the latest biography of Stritch (I’M STILL HERE by Alexandra Jacobs, 2018), she says Stritch was indeed offered “I’m Still Here” first, but she turned it down, saying you had to “be Yvonne de Carlo or eighty.” She was in a panic state during the performance, according to Mandy Patinkin, and everyone, including Paul Gemignani, was startled when she began singing as though the words were coming out one at at time. “That was not the tempo we used in rehearsals,” he said, and adapted the orchestra to her pacing. I’m paraphrasing; the book is upstairs and my foot hurts. I’ll post a citation later. Laura |
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| Stritch in rehearsal | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 07:03 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - showtunetrivia 02:28 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| That is indeed what Gemignani is quoted saying. At the link, there is an excerpt from the Follies in Concert documentary showing us Stritch in rehearsal. A bit further is the the beginning of "Broadway Baby" at the opening-night performance. She certainly is not doing it quickly in the rehearsal clip, although admittedly she is simply trying to get the notes. Still, I would bet that she never did it in rehearsal faster than the basic tempo we hear there. If she went perhaps a bit slower still in performance, given the audience response, how could she not? |
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| Link | Stritch in rehearsal and performance |
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| re: Stritch in rehearsal | |
| Posted by: pecansforall 09:12 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: Stritch in rehearsal - AlanScott 07:03 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| Look at this clip of Stritch ending "Broadway Baby". Is that Sondheim in the background doing a facepalm or someone else? | |
| Link | Broadway Baby |
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| re: Stritch in rehearsal | |
| Posted by: AlanScott 10:14 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Stritch in rehearsal - pecansforall 09:12 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| LOL. I had watched that but didn't take note of Sondheim back there. I'm not sure he was thinking, "Oh, God! Is she going to do it that way?" but perhaps he was. I suppose he might also be hating that ending, which I think was put in because there was no way those people were going to learn the counterpoint ending in the little rehearsal time they had. Oddly, on the second night, it was Montevecchi who had trouble staying in sync with the orchestra even though she had been a ballet dancer and you would think she therefore had a good sense of rhythm. Maybe she just had trouble hearing them. | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: peter3053 05:29 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: A few FOLLIES thoughts - EvFoDr 01:08 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
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| The slow "Broadway Baby" began in "Side by Side by Sondheim" circa 1975 in London. It suited the rhythm of Act One of that compilation show, and built to a big finish, the lighting accompanying it to fullness. Outside of that context, speaking personally, I dislike the slow version intensely, like you filled with joy when it's sung up to tempo and in the right spirit. The point of it in "Follies" was vibrancy - the three songs that came at that point showed the lasting liveliness of the Follies / musical tradition, and the pleasure was in the pace and verve of the elderly performers, and the contrast between their age and the energy they poured into the songs. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: duckylittledictum 09:39 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - peter3053 05:29 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
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| Yes! And I know for a fact that Sondheim loved Julia McKenzie's take on the song. The surprise tempo was one of the things that made it special in Side by Side. As for Stritch, her performance of the song stopped the show in a way I've rarely experienced. No complaints here that it was contrary to the original intention. |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Billhaven 10:22 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - duckylittledictum 09:39 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| It marked the return of Stritch to NYC after years in the UK. I loved the surprise of her slowed down version. It suited her hard, cynical persona. Of course, although she never seemed young, she once was a convent girl from Detroit who came to the city with all those "Broadway Baby" dreams. | |
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| re: A few FOLLIES thoughts | |
| Posted by: Chromolume 08:44 pm EDT 04/11/21 | |
| In reply to: re: A few FOLLIES thoughts - Billhaven 10:22 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
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| The distortion of the text in the slower tempo is something I've always struggled with. Sondheim never even once wrote the word "OH!" in the lyric, but in doing it slowly, that then becomes the most frequent word in the song. I've never liked it. | |
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