Threaded Order Chronological Order
| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Last Edit: ryhog 08:12 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| Posted by: ryhog 08:11 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - Michael_Portantiere 06:49 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
|
|
|
| In general, I am with you on this but: What about when the argument labeled as "straw man" isn't straw at all? Because as I note below, Dramedy seems to be saying that he finds watching theatre on his gigantic TV to be not only the same as an in-person theatrical experience but actually better. And Dramedy is not "no one." This reminds me of a familiar exchange I used to have with my father when I was in high school and I wanted to stay out half the night with my friends. "Everyone's doing it," I would argue, to which he would respond, "No, you are not doing it, and you are a part of everyone, so what you say is incorrect." Ah, adolescence. :-) |
|
| reply to this message |
| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 09:00 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - ryhog 08:11 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
|
|
|
| Yes, sometimes people call "straw man" because it lets them off the hook of questioning their own point of view; far easier to presume that the other person is being conniving and stupid than to consider that they're being genuine and reflective. | |
| reply to this message |
| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 09:41 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - Singapore/Fling 09:00 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
|
|
|
| ***Yes, sometimes people call "straw man" because it lets them off the hook of questioning their own point of view; far easier to presume that the other person is being conniving and stupid than to consider that they're being genuine and reflective.**** I'm sure some people sometimes do that, but as far as I'm concerned, the rules are clear as to what constitutes (or not) a straw man argument, and those rules are not a matter of opinion. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 10:40 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - Michael_Portantiere 09:41 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
|
|
|
| We might agree that the rules are not a matter of opinion, but we don't agree that people aren't prey to being righteously self-convinced that someone else has broken those rules. I've seen people lose their minds over what they are convinced is a straw man argument when they're completely in the wrong. But then, they were convinced that other folks like myself were completely in the wrong. That's because ultimately, it is all about perception and how we choose to understand another person, insisting on ideas of absolute fact while being hopelessly lost in objective opinion. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:14 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - Singapore/Fling 10:40 pm EDT 04/09/21 | |
|
|
|
| We're getting into semantics here. Again, the definition of a straw man argument or fallacy is clear. So no matter how strongly someone is convinced that someone else's position is a straw man fallacy, one should be able to objectively examine the argument and decide whether or not that's true. If I were to say "I think we should have universal health care in the U.S." and someone else were to respond, "Sorry, I don't believe the government should give every citizen everything they want for free," that would be clearly be a straw man argument, because I never said that. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: Singapore/Fling 12:31 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - Michael_Portantiere 12:14 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
|
|
|
| "one should be able to objectively examine the argument and decide whether or not that's true." 100% agree, but I have found that when people bust out "Straw Man!" as their response, it's often because they don't want to examine the argument. In this thread alone, straw man was tossed out with the insistence that no one was talking about replacing live theater with streamed theater, even though someone had totally written how excited they were to replace live theater with streaming theater. And that's just the low hanging fruit, lol. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 12:29 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - Singapore/Fling 12:31 am EDT 04/10/21 | |
|
|
|
| "In this thread alone, straw man was tossed out with the insistence that no one was talking about replacing live theater with streamed theater, even though someone had totally written how excited they were to replace live theater with streaming theater." But maybe the people who cried "straw man" didn't read that particular, highly unusual comment. I think it's fair to say that the VAST majority of people don't feel that streaming theater should REPLACE live theater, so it would be a straw man argument to insist that those people DO feel that way. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 01:51 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - Michael_Portantiere 12:29 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
|
|
|
| Leaving aside the use and misuse of the rhetorical device, the original post by MBG was absolute in its terms, and absolutism around here is not unfamiliar even though it is almost never accurate. The OP was making its point by insisting (as fact) that there were no dissenters (highly unusual or not). I'd add that, although what Dramedy said is indeed highly unusual and surprising in this precinct, it is certainly not true that the vast majority of people overall elevate live theatre above something they can watch from their couch (ditto, of course, even for going to a movie theatre). This is one reason I feel so strongly about streaming being an unhealthy thing for the theatre. It vitiates the #1 selling point live theatre has. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: Michael_Portantiere 03:31 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - ryhog 01:51 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
|
|
|
| "I'd add that, although what Dramedy said is indeed highly unusual and surprising in this precinct, it is certainly not true that the vast majority of people overall elevate live theatre above something they can watch from their couch (ditto, of course, even for going to a movie theatre). " If you don't think that the vast majority of people who post here certainly do feel exactly that way, then I can only say that I strongly disagree with you. We are, of course, NOT discussing the general population, so your use of the word "overall" is odd in this context. |
|
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
| re: Do you wanna build a straw man? | |
| Posted by: ryhog 04:00 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
| In reply to: re: Do you wanna build a straw man? - Michael_Portantiere 03:31 pm EDT 04/10/21 | |
|
|
|
| I read "[a]bsolutely no one" in MBG's post literally. Reading it your way (and assuming MBG had not read what Dramedy wrote), then we are in agreement. | |
| reply to this message | reply to first message |
Time to render: 0.029637 seconds.